Shock for SA teams as French clubs lure young prospects

[Feicarsinn]

The very fact is i do know and you obviously are just following the trend of others, the younger players with no International caps are treated just like the young French ones, i agree as i previously said the older ex Internationals are paid well but this is the system aned not the fault of the French clubs they have the money why not get the best of Internationals available who want to come.I do know the wages of the Montpellier players but would never give out any details, but to say i am delusionial, is just plain stupid, you know nothing of this so why do you not accept info from some one who does.

If you're not willing to provide details then you're essentiually just saying "I know more than you about this, but I'm not going to back it up in any way, but you should just trust me."

Look, we all know that the French clubs can afford to pay their players more than anyone, particularly the Super Rugby sides. Denying money is the main factor behind them leaving is just pure fantasy. We know that in the SH they regard northern rugby as less enjoyable and of a poorer standard. Why would a player throw away his legacy, international fame, etc. to go to France if not for the money. It's not like they're going to be missing out on seeing the world as international rugby players.

 

[gaston le gaff]

If you're not willing to provide details then you're essentiually just saying "I know more than you about this, but I'm not going to back it up in any way, but you should just trust me."

Look, we all know that the French clubs can afford to pay their players more than anyone, particularly the Super Rugby sides. Denying money is the main factor behind them leaving is just pure fantasy. We know that in the SH they regard northern rugby as less enjoyable and of a poorer standard. Why would a player throw away his legacy, international fame, etc. to go to France if not for the money. It's not like they're going to be missing out on seeing the world as international rugby players.

ANOTHER BROKEN RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! would you communicate your salary and all your families on the net!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YES I KNOW MORE THAN YOU ABOUT THIS. END OF STORY TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nickdnz]

gaston's psychotic Gordon Gekko impression is fantastic.

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[gaston le gaff]

That was an example yes. And I know most of the youngsters get more than that calculation I did. Also the clubs arrange their housing and transport, and even give them incentives. The clubs also pay for their hotel stays when they travel with the team, so I don't know why that is mentioned.

When the guys are in their off season, taking a holiday, most of them come home, and enjoy their time with family and friends.

Yes my calculation is based purely on Net value if they took that amount and brought it home just like that. But what you are missing, is that, these guys don't just sign a one-year contract. And there is also something like a signing bonus. They might not become millionaires in just one year, maybe 2 or 3. But the odds of that happening if they stayed in SA, and not getting a springbok contract, is not very high.

Ask any player who played in the NH and came back, what he did with his money he made in NH. All of them will say they invested it, and in more than one entity. Thinus Delport for example has a chain of coffee shops with Werner Swanepoel. Pedrie Wannenburg owns 2 bars in Pretoria. My friend who played in Italy opened his own gym and supplement shop. The list goes on, and on.

And of course you won't divulge the salaries these guys are getting, because then you will have absolutely no leg to stand on. Because then it will show us, we're right about the (as Big E would say) Money, Money, MOOOOOOONEEEEEY!!!!

so lets do the calculation 100,000â'¬ is not a bad starting base.for a young and i said young SA player but we will go as far as 150,000 which is too much and they.are not paid that much take off 45% for taxes, services private health care yes you have to pay, not the club, that leaves 82,500â'¬ per year now take off personal expenses Cars Apartement, genaral living, 4000â'¬ per month (these guys earn well but spend well) = 48,000 that leaves 34, 500 which is incredible for a young player to bank so to become a millionzonaaire that would take by my calculator 28.98 years.Yes the clubs arrange cars, housing, etc etc, arrange yes, but not pay, of c ourse they pay for hotels etc on match weekends, but the appartement owners still charge them the same monthly rent whether they are at home or away with the club playing. this is where your info is wrong many come with wives or girlfriends they cost money as work is not easy to find, no one is saying they are not payed very well, but to talk millionaires is ridiculous, maybe if they were playing footie they would.Of course when they come back on holiday they have lots of money to enjoy themselves, Drikus, did exactly that, but he stayed 8/9years and he is not a retired millionaire he bought a business and invested wisely but is still working that is the difference. France is not the country that flows with milk and honey as you all state, yes its a privilidge to live here but you need to earn the money as it's not cheap. This happens in all walks of lives people follow where the money is better, what your country should be doing is finding a way to stop all this young talent which could be future Boks leaving and stay in the country of their birth

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gaston's psychotic Gordon Gekko impression is fantastic.

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EXCELLENT AND SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

so lets do the calculation 100,000€ is not a bad starting base.for a young and i said young SA player but we will go as far as 150,000 which is too much and they.are not paid that much take off 45% for taxes, services private health care yes you have to pay, not the club, that leaves 82,500€ per year now take off personal expenses Cars Apartement, genaral living, 4000€ per month (these guys earn well but spend well) = 48,000 that leaves 34, 500 which is incredible for a young player to bank so to become a millionzonaaire that would take by my calculator 28.98 years.Yes the clubs arrange cars, housing, etc etc, arrange yes, but not pay, of c ourse they pay for hotels etc on match weekends, but the appartement owners still charge them the same monthly rent whether they are at home or away with the club playing. this is where your info is wrong many come with wives or girlfriends they cost money as work is not easy to find, no one is saying they are not payed very well, but to talk millionaires is ridiculous, maybe if they were playing footie they would.Of course when they come back on holiday they have lots of money to enjoy themselves, Drikus, did exactly that, but he stayed 8/9years and he is not a retired millionaire he bought a business and invested wisely but is still working that is the difference. France is not the country that flows with milk and honey as you all state, yes its a privilidge to live here but you need to earn the money as it's not cheap. This happens in all walks of lives people follow where the money is better, what your country should be doing is finding a way to stop all this young talent which could be future Boks leaving and stay in the country of their birth

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EXCELLENT AND SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, by that calculation, if he were to take 4000€ a month home. He would bring 48000€ a year. That is about R624 000.00!! so it would, according to you, take him 2 years to be a millionaire in SA.

 

[Groundhog]

ANOTHER BROKEN RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! would you communicate your salary and all your families on the net!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YES I KNOW MORE THAN YOU ABOUT THIS. END OF STORY TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're acting like the posting equivalent of the child who puts his fingers in his ears and starts yelling lalalalalalalalalala when he hears something he doen't like. For a young dude with ambitions of playing international rugby, it certainly is money that motivates the move. Not exclusively perhaps, but it's without doubt the single biggest factor.This isn't a witch hunt on Top 14, it's a statement of facts for the majority of guys who choose to play in France.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Actually, by that calculation, if he were to take 4000€ a month home. He would bring 48000€ a year. That is about R624 000.00!! so it would, according to you, take him 2 years to be a millionaire in SA.

here we are talking real money Euro's my friend, a million rand would be good for a couple of holidays no more no less

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You're acting like the posting equivalent of the child who puts his fingers in his ears and starts yelling lalalalalalalalalala when he hears something he doen't like. For a young dude with ambitions of playing international rugby, it certainly is money that motivates the move. Not exclusively perhaps, but it's without doubt the single biggest factor.This isn't a witch hunt on Top 14, it's a statement of facts for the majority of guys who choose to play in France.

of course you are right you all know so much more, trouble is with a lot of you guys you just do not like the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!! with your statement above you have just brought the thread into the playground, Bravo messieur well played we have now all dropped to your infantile level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Groundhog]

here we are talking real money Euro's my friend, a million rand would be good for a couple of holidays no more no less

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of course you are right you all know so much more, trouble is with a lot of you guys you just do not like the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!! with your statement above you have just brought the thread into the playground, Bravo messieur well played we have now all dropped to your infantile level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right. I made it infantile by caps spamming troll troll troll and refusing to actually respond to any points with a decent argument which falls outside of calling the other person ignorant. Oh wait, that wasn't me!

 

[TRF_heineken]

here we are talking real money Euro's my friend, a million rand would be good for a couple of holidays no more no less

Oh FFS!! You sir, are a moron!!

They are bringing that money BACK to SOUTH AFRICA, so that they can be millionaires IN SOUTH AFRICA!! is that really so hard to grasp???

 

[SelimNiai]

Chaps, heated debate is OK but can we leave the personal insults out or else this thread may not be long for the world

 

[TRF_heineken]

Chaps, heated debate is OK but can we leave the personal insults out or else this thread may not be long for the world

My apologies, but how else do you get the ??????? to understand that what everyone is saying, is going over his head and that his argument is null and void...

 

[Gena_ZA]

some behind the scenes info:

J du Plessis - the man in question was offered 6 times what he currently gets.
He was also not impressed with the hard running Lappies Labushagne joining the Bulls form the Freestate and forcing him to play at four lock.
Further Lappies is getting twice what he is getting when he signed with the Bulls 2 years ago. But also it is not strange for the Bulls union to screw up contracts
This guy was made a rugby god at a very young age due to his massive frame, now suddenly he is no longer the main peanut in the packet and decided to go make his fortune overseas, his choice
Same happened with CJ Stander

 

[SelimNiai]

My apologies, but how else do you get the ??????? to understand that what everyone is saying, is going over his head and that his argument is null and void...

If he doesn't want to understand (and btw this is not me getting involved in the debate at all) then he's not going to. Calling him a moron isnt going to help.

This goes for Gaston too, try to talk about this without calling people infatile etc.

 

[gaston le gaff]

If he doesn't want to understand (and btw this is not me getting involved in the debate at all) then he's not going to. Calling him a moron isnt going to help.

This goes for Gaston too, try to talk about this without calling people infatile etc.

The difference is I do not go around shouting abuse at people I do not know I will to their face that's different!!!! Infantile is not abusive it's childish no more no less

 

[SelimNiai]

The difference is I do not go around shouting abuse at people I do not know I will to their face that's different!!!! Infantile is not abusive it's childish no more no less

Well dont be childish then. Im sure this is a topic than be discussed without resorting to either

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

some behind the scenes info:

J du Plessis - the man in question was offered 6 times what he currently gets.
He was also not impressed with the hard running Lappies Labushagne joining the Bulls form the Freestate and forcing him to play at four lock.
Further Lappies is getting twice what he is getting when he signed with the Bulls 2 years ago. But also it is not strange for the Bulls union to screw up contracts
This guy was made a rugby god at a very young age due to his massive frame, now suddenly he is no longer the main peanut in the packet and decided to go make his fortune overseas, his choice
Same happened with CJ Stander

Yeah the figure being mentioned is close to R5mil / year. The Bulls won't be forking that out for a 20 year flanker/lock old no matter how talented. It's a pity Du Plessis doesn't see himself as a lock as I feel thats where his future lies as he is big but not insanely big for a flank whereas he would be a rather athetic and skilled lock. Particularly at the Bulls where a loose trio of Spies, Botha (both sure starters) and Du Plessis is just plain unbalanced while Matfield is in his last season at lock and the cupboard hasn't been restocked with Botha, Rossouw and J Kruger also having left (and Flip leaving). Pity, he could've done well at the Lions or Cheetahs but I don't think those unions have anything close to deep pockets ATM.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But Du Plessis signed the contract 2 years ago. He was then still a teenager. That contract hasn't lapsed yet, so to put blame with the Bulls management is not correct.

He wouldn't have gotten 5mil a year even if he was a springbok now.

When Frans Steyn won the world cup in 2007, he was 21 and got a million just for the World Cup, like all the other boks, but adding his salary and his Shampoo sponsorship, he still didn't get to the 5 mil mark. And at that time the Rand was stronger than it is now, and yet, he still went to France.

Du Plessis shouldn't be angry at Lappies, as Lappies is a different type of player than he is. Lappies and Stegmann are competition for one another, and Du Plessis and Arno Botha are competition for one another. Him playing at lock is a better move for his own career, especially at the Bulls when Victor and Flip are leaving. He would then be the first choice lock ahead of Orie and Irne Herbst.

This maintains the point that the Money thrown at him from France was just too damn good.

Hell for 5mil a year I'd go without hesitation.

Coming back with a cool 10 mil after 2 years, and he's set for life. He can then even retire from Rugby and do Javelin throw for the fun of it...

 

[Feicarsinn]

Even suggesting that this decision isn't primarily motivated by money is complete delusion. If you draw up a list of pros and cons for why a player would go abroad and decide not to include the massive wedge of cash you'd find it hard to justify going abroad. Include it and it's a simple(er) decision.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

In one way it does actually make more sense to do your 'overseas stint' early on though. That is family-wise; being married now with babies I know it'd be quite a logistical exercize to move off for 2 years and then come back family in tow all the while. If you are something of a prodigy (like Frans Steyn, Goosen and in this case Du Plessis) and can demand big bucks early in your carreer even before 'really making a name' it makes sense to do it now while your not attached and then come back later in time to stake a claim for the next RWC and if your still not attached (Du Plessis would still be quite young post 2019) rinse and repeat. Du Plessis is also the type of player that should do well in European conditions especially if the exhibition match against (an admittedly below strength) Sarries is anything to go by. I'm just not sure he won't be playing lock for Montpelly as well in any case.

 

[TRF_heineken]

In one way it does actually make more sense to do your 'overseas stint' early on though. That is family-wise; being married now with babies I know it'd be quite a logistical exercize to move off for 2 years and then come back family in tow all the while. If you are something of a prodigy (like Frans Steyn, Goosen and in this case Du Plessis) and can demand big bucks early in your carreer even before 'really making a name' it makes sense to do it now while your not attached and then come back later in time to stake a claim for the next RWC and if your still not attached (Du Plessis would still be quite young post 2019) rinse and repeat. Du Plessis is also the type of player that should do well in European conditions especially if the exhibition match against (an admittedly below strength) Sarries is anything to go by. I'm just not sure he won't be playing lock for Montpelly as well in any case.

Yeah, that's what I was hinting at regarding Frans Steyn, and to an extent Juandre Kruger.

Money is a great motivator...