Savea vs Cane; Smith vs Perenara; SBW vs Crotty; Savea vs Naholo

[mania]

one big aspect of SBWs game is that the players around him need to be aware and have the skills to take his offloads.

what a dilemma!! play crotty mrReliable who has an awesome rugby brain and can pretty much do everything needed from a back or play a contrasting SBW an big strong athletic freak who attracts defenses and makes them ineffectual with his offload game.
whilst midfield is a bit of mystery basically whoever gets in is gonna be an awesome servant of ABs rugby

i'd look at pushing SBW out to 13. crottys got a mortgage on 12

 

[mania]

one big aspect of SBWs game is that the players around him need to be aware and have the skills to take his offloads.

what a dilemma!! play crotty mrReliable who has an awesome rugby brain and can pretty much do everything needed from a back or play a contrasting SBW an big strong athletic freak who attracts defenses and makes them ineffectual with his offload game.
whilst midfield is a bit of mystery basically whoever gets in is gonna be an awesome servant of ABs rugby

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

what a dilemma!! play crotty mrReliable who has an awesome rugby brain and can pretty much do everything needed from a back or play a contrasting SBW an big strong athletic freak who attracts defenses and makes them ineffectual with his offload game.
whilst midfield is a bit of mystery basically whoever gets in is gonna be an awesome servant of ABs rugby

i'd look at pushing SBW out to 13. crottys got a mortgage on 12

I think it's a bit far to say Crotty has a mortgage on the 12 jersey, but he is definitely the front-runner right now and I'd be surprised if he isn't our starting 12. That being said, SBW still has time to prove himself and he has the potential to dethrone Crotty. If SBW finds form over the coming weeks he's a real chance to start at 12. I don't agree that he's only useful off the bench, I reckon he could add real value to the starting line-up.... his offloading is just such an asset and if the guys around him are clued-on to it, it's so dangerous. Crotty doesn't have that extra string to his bow, what he offers is stability , which is itself very valuable and will probs see him starting, but SBW has the potential to offer more, he just needs to prove himself. Also, and I know it's a bit left-field, but I wouldn't completely rule out Laumape... he's still beasting it and is really putting his hand up... I know it's unlikely, but if Hansen and co. decide they want a blockbusting 12 to compliment the distribution/skill-based game of ALB (similar to the Nonu/Smith combo), the Laumape is a good shout. That's probably a bit of wishful thinking on my part though, being a die-hard Canes fan
I don't like the idea of SBW at 13... I don't think that position suits him, especially not a test level... for me ALB is basically a lock-in there. After him I'd have Moala. I don't rate Fekitoa at all... he's playing OK atm, but for me he's just not a good enough player... his game sense is poor and his skill level is a bit dodgy... he's a good defender but other than that he's a liability in the ABs backline and having him starting against the Lions would worry me.

 

[Ground We Won]

Fekitoa is inconsistent, but I think Hansen favours him and has developed him. Not 'rating' him is a mistake, because he is a good player. There's aspects of his game he can tidy up but I certainly don't think he's any worse than Moala. Also I don't think you can rate Moala ahead of Fekitoa when in the head to heads the Highlanders won twice and Fekitoa kept him quiet. Fekitoa has also given more match winning performances. I think Fekitoa is better. You have to ask yourself why are the Blues on the bottom of the NZ conference?

Let's have a look at some stats between the two.


Fekitoa

Tries: 6
Metres: 529
Clean Breaks: 16
Defenders beaten: 21 Offloads: 9
Try assists: 3
Passes: 70
Open play kicks: 12

Moala

Tries: 2
Metres: 425
Clean Breaks: 9
Defenders beaten: 18
Offloads: 9
Try assist: 2
Passes: 55
Open play kicks: 2

 

[Larksea]

stats dont tell the whole tale.

There is no secret as to why the blues are the bottom of the NZ conference. They are the only NZ team without a genuine top level first five.
West can be brilliant but he has struggled with consistency. Francis is solid but no where near the level of the Barretts, Crudens, Mo'anga's or Sopoaga's of this world.
Yes Sopoaga's been injured for the highlanders but Banks has been superb covering for him... Its true that other NZ teams have backup 10's who are better and more consistent than West & Francis.

When I compare Moala vs Fekitoa.

Moala is consistently one of the Blues best players, at times in the last few years he has carried the entire blues backline. He proves on a regular basis that he can break the line and create opportunities with either his size or his footwork and he is a very good defender. he is a genuine "big" midfielder and uses his size to an advantage on a regular basis attracting defenders and getting over the gain line, but he has great feet too. Moala's biggest weakness has been injuries, not as much the number of injuries he gets but the timing, he's been injured at the worst times and its cost him a number of tests for the All Blacks. Look at his run for the All Blacks in 2015? He was awesome for the blues and got selected for the AB's but turned up injured, after a while was over his injury and got a test against the Wales and was brilliant, but before he could follow that up he got injured... Then last year when he had a run of injuries in midfield he was injured as well which allowed for ALB to come in.

Fekitoa IMO is arguably one of the least impressive of the Highlanders backs, compare his performances and what he adds to the team to Faddes, Buckman & Thompson? Despite being a "Big" midfielder he doesn't really break the line by using his size or skill he generally relies on a gap being created for him or a set play to come good. I dont think he has a great skillset and I think decision making is a very weak area of his game, the biggest impact ALB made when he came into the AB backline was decision making, it's what we had missed, it was the missing ingredient with Fekitoa there. Fekitoa's strong points are that his defense has become very reliable, he works hard and he is very durable, hes hardly ever injured.

I think Moala is without a doubt better than Fekitoa in most areas of the game. The reason that has not translated into test matches for the All Blacks is simply injuries. Fekitoa is very rarely injuries while Moala seems to get injured at the worst possible time.

 

[Ground We Won]

The stats don't tell all of the story, but they're solid evidence that one is out performing the other on attack. And performances particularly vs the Bulls, Stormers, Rebels and the Blues do too.

Rob Thompson and Faddes have been good, but they have made critical errors on a regular basis, Thompson can't defend for starters and Faddes finds it difficult catching a ball. Buckman is great on defense but relatively slow on attack.

Since when was making a gap not a skill? This is one of the most crucial skill sets a centre should have and Fekitoa is better at it than all our centres.

Fekitoa will put in match winning performances and regularly. Scoring crucial tries too. Moala doesn't do that often and goes missing for large chunks of the season. Not to say Moala isn't a good player, he most certainly is, I just don't think he has the same consistency or the heart/work rate. Citing one test vs a tired Wales in the 3rd test of the series is stretching it a little.

But I think he definitely deserves more chances at All Black level, but right now I don't think it's fair to say he's better than Fekitoa. Potentially better, maybe. But as you said he's injury prone and reliability and continuity is needed in that role. I think he will always be floating around the squad, but will never hold down a solid spot.

I also think you've picked up on a few bad plays and a couple of negative traits which he definitely has and but I think you have over exaggerated them a bit. The guy is a star player.

Hansen has put 3 seasons into him already and I don't see him giving up on him anytime soon either and rightly so. He's only 25. George Moala is a year older than him and doesn't have anywhere near the same experience or level of performances.

Just a few videos from a quick Youtube.

Lovely match winning try vs the Bulls.



A man of the match performance vs the Hurricanes last season in Dunedin.



Here's a 1v1 vs Moala and he runs over the top of him and scores a try vs 3 Blues defenders. Fekitoa absolutely bossed Moala in this fixture as well, this for me was a big indication of who the better player was, not for the first time either.



Fekitoa has one of the best scrambling defenses in the game, regularly making try saving tackles.




I think they're both great players and we're fortunate to have such depth at centre now.

 

[Larksea]

1 on 1 with 5m to the line I think I would pick any 13 in NZ to score that against any other 13 in NZ

that is an area where Fekitoa is strong, when getting the ball and running straight is the right option... That hurricanes highlight game pretty much sums up the the best you get from him. great attitude, solid defense and straight running from set play.

when doing something else was the right option he will almost always get it wrong. The story of his test career is him going to ground when the pass was on, offloading when the pass wasn't on and the odd awful kick when it shouldn't have even been an option. He has become an excellent defender but his poor decision making has meant that the All Blacks attack has been constantly breaking down when he has been involved. The huge difference ALB made last season I simply put down to having a 13 who made better decisions. All of a sudden stuff that had been breaking down was being turned into trys for players around him.

 

[Ground We Won]

Can't argue with you on the ALB case. I do agree that ALB is a better player and makes better decisions and has improved the All Blacks attack and Fekitoa's All Black form is worse than ALB.

No doubt this will be a big season for Fekitoa in the All Black jersey. But I do think he just needs to keep some composure and improve his option taking. I'm open to Moala getting more game time as well and seeing if he can take his chances. But he's a tad bland for my liking though, we'll just have to wait and see, I'm sure both will see plenty of game time and we can be better judges at the end of the season.

 

[Larksea]

glad you can see where Im coming from
I also think your being harsh on Faddes, Thompson and Buckman and stats do back up my observations.
Comparing Faddes stats to Fekitoa's are pretty interesting...
Their tackle success rate is basically the same, which is very impressive for Faddes since he is asked to cover multiple positions while Fekitoa focuses on 13. FAD 83.8% FEK 84.1%
Faddes stats on attack completely shade Fekitoa
per minute plated he is ahead in pretty much every key stat.
i think its interesting you say Faddes has problems catching the ball but he concedes less turnovers per minute played (.0205) than Fekitoa (.0244)
when you also need to consider that the stats suggest that Faddes is generally more active and more involved on attack when adjusted for time played.

Richard Buckmans stats compare well to Fekitoa too.
Buckman is tackling at over 90% which is insane, he also makes more tackles per minute played. He has a very low error rate, much lower than Fekitoa.
Buckman is behind on meters, defenders beaten and linebreaks, but he is ahead in other key stats when adjusted for time played.
Stats aside A key aspect of Buckmans game is he makes great decisions... On Attack or defense...

Rob Thompson
has been brilliant on attack and his stats reflect that. In particular defenders beaten where he is on 22 and fekitoa is on 21 keep in mind Rob has a lot less minutes played.
Thompson has a very very low error rate, less than half that of Fekitoa.
Thompson's tackle percentage of 78.4% is passable, he can improve that but its not "terrible" its good but not an elite level like fekitoa, faddes or buckman... Buckman's stats on defense are mind blowing.

I think the stats back up my observation that even in the highlanders back line generally he is the least consistent performer.
Moala's stats are actually not bad and compare well to Fekitoa when you consider that he has 90minutes less gametime. And Moala's tackling at 86%. But Moala is the best player in the blues backline on a regular basis. I tend to wonder how good Moala would be in the backline of the chiefs, highlanders or hurricanes... pair him with someone like ALB or Buckman and outside a top level first five/halfback his stats would he a heck of a lot better. SBW is an elite 12 but he was/has been under par for a number of games this season so far...

Fekitoa is a workhorse that is for sure. he has played a lot of minutes that needs to be considered as well, he is a solid player I really like his intensity and alertness, he's always on his toes so to speak... I dont want to hate on him, I do think his decision making is a major issue and I dont see improvement there over the last 3+years or so. Outside of set play he very rarely makes good decisions to the point when he does get something right it was probably a fluke... His default option just happened to be the right one.

 

[Radsy]

Moala was the worst player on the field in Chicago. That will count against him. He can be easily stepped at times.

Great debate lads

 

[Ground We Won]

Fekitoa did struggle with his tackling technique a few seasons ago, I used to call him a 'grabber', but he has improved on that aspect of his game remarkably and has become one of the best tackling centres around, constantly putting in big hits and nailing the opposition behind the gain line.

I attribute some of his missed tackles and tackling percentage purely down to tactics and his offensive aggressive style. The Highlanders like to use him as a offensive tackler, rushing the line and making big hits, high risk high reward, with Richard Buckman in cover. This is why the Highlanders can often struggle defensively when Buckman is not playing. Thompson and Fekitoa are not balanced enough defensively and Buckman is well... a tackling machine. 1 try conceded in their last 2 matches with Buckman back says it all really and that try conceded wasn't even grounded properly and came from a Faddes error.

His offensive patterns are tactics as well. The Highlanders do like to kick a lot of ball and don't rely heavily on their centres breaking the line. They like to shift it wide to the wings or kick in behind, or counter attack through Ben Smith/Faddes. This is why you will see his attacking statistics vary.

Tactics change when Thompson is on the park as well. He is used as an offensive runner against the 'worse' teams. He is a good line breaker and quick and has seen game time vs worse teams. His tackling isn't 'terrible', but it is a concern, he's been targeted by teams as a weaker tackler and has missed some very important tackles. His missed tackles have had a more disastrous effect than Fekitoa's misses from rush defense.

Have you watched Highlanders games in their entirety? Faddes has made a lot of handling errors that have lead to opposition scoring tries and conceding territory. I rate him highly in attack though, he's the White Fijian. He's been excellent and perfect cover for Ben Smith.

Radsy is right. That Moala performance vs Ireland kind of summed up his Blues season last year as well. I'd rather Fekitoa on the park in a tight spot than Moala.

 

[Bob]

Well I don't rate either of them. I'd rather tamanivalu. If he hadn't been on the wing all year he'd be a front runner. Even still, he's been very good. I hope he makes a statement at 13 this weekend. Him or ALB for me. I like ngani too. He'd be my 12. SBW hasn't been good enough. Crotty is good but meh. Laumape or ALB at 12 for me.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I love that young Ardie Savea, he's a dynamite player but... for number 8, he's too small.
I can remember the bloody hoo hah when Zinny got the nod for number 8 over Buck Shelford (I can hear the North Harbour fans baying in the distance)
Zinny was a bit of a skinny kid, he was quick and super skilful but still too skinny and Buck was a lump. I was a zinny fan but it was still a harsh call.
Number 8 has got to be a big cahuna, a monster, and not without a short burst of pace to get that fired up hippo kind of rollicking smash at the defensive line to get a roll on.
No little number 8's please.
Ever.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I love that young Ardie Savea, he's a dynamite player but... for number 8, he's too small.
I can remember the bloody hoo hah when Zinny got the nod for number 8 over Buck Shelford (I can hear the North Harbour fans baying in the distance)
Zinny was a bit of a skinny kid, he was quick and super skilful but still too skinny and Buck was a lump. I was a zinny fan but it was still a harsh call.
Number 8 has got to be a big cahuna, a monster, and not without a short burst of pace to get that fired up hippo kind of rollicking smash at the defensive line to get a roll on.
No little number 8's please.
Ever.

Well... So'oialo wasn't the biggest bloke and he went alright. I see Ardie as a similar sort of no.8 to him. And it's a fact that Ardie punches above his weight with his raw power and explosiveness.
Not saying I think he should be no.8 though, he should only be there as a last resort, but I don't think having him there would be as bad as some are suggesting.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Rodney?
He was a liability.
Apart from being too small he forever gave away penalties as he tried to punch above his weight.
I always worried when he played.
I'm sure he's a nice fella but for me he was the guy they played until they found the right player to fill the spot.
The only fans of Rodney I ever met were Wellingtonians.
Number eight needs to be a monster.
Rodders was quick but he got pushed around by genuinely big number 8's.
Ardie is too small and if he started at number 8 he would be out of his depth against a big 'un.
Give him another year on a heavy taro diet and splitting his time between the weight room and the sprint track and might get there.
I also like Liam Messam as a player but I think he's too small to be the AB no.6.
He always looks like Kaino's little brother.
Big hearts in small bodies.

 

[Ground We Won]

Luke Whitelocks pretty bloody good, if Reid went down for awhile I'd be giving him a call.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Yeah I agree, he's been pretty good.
He comes from a family of big 'uns.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Absolutely Whitelock would be my no.8 choice if Read and Squire are unavailable.