SANZAAR to cut 3 teams in 2018

[InsaneAsylum]

But the decision to give Melbourne a franchise - and Perth - was presumably a long-term one. Surely SANZAAR and the ARU weren't expecting these teams to be overnight successes? There is a century of Aussie Rules tradition to break into.

The AFL has put down teams on Australia's East Coast and they are in it for the duration. The Giants' crowds have attracted plenty of derision but the AFL won't be giving up on them because they want the national footprint that the ARU supposedly wanted until this year.

I'd be gutted in the Rebels got axed, make no mistake.

You are right about the AFL, they are committed, the difference is the AFL have a draft system and when new teams like GWS are created, they are given first pick of the players. The system is designed to give a new team that advantage so they catch up to the established teams within a few years just as GWS have done.

This is missing from Rugby in Australia, but it will never happen as it's geared to ensuring the success of the Reds and Waratahs

 

[TRF_heineken]

Espn arg just showed a pic of a south african new paper cover saying that there is a strong chance the bulls would actually be second in line to be removed from SR.

Given how bad is rugby journalism in arg, if they say go right i instantly go left, and given the bulls history and current squad i find it simply unbelievable this is a realistic possibility, but i have to ask, is this a card on the table?

Dont get me wrong, the newspaper cover is avatar worthy for anyone wanting to tease a bulls fan and i love banter as much as the next guy, but i cant even begin to comprehend the idea of the bulls being cut.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the pic in question

Ah, and so it begins. The citizen. The propaganda newspaper of South Africa. Whatever they say in that newspaper, take it with a pinch of salt.

As stated before, I don't think it would be fair to make an assessment on just the current season when axing teams.

The Bulls are situated in the country's Capital. They have continuously had some of the best attendances for matches of all the teams, even when they aren't performing well. They have one of the most financially sound sponsorship deals, and are one of the most solvent teams in the country, if not the world. Their stadium is an icon in SA Rugby, and they are the only SA team to have ever won the Super Rugby Trophy, and not just once, but 3 times.

That article was written just to stir the pot, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[saulan]

I have seen a lot of comments from what I had assumed were lone wolf public Australian figures calling for Super Rugby to cut South Africa and focus just on Australia and New Zealand.

Turns out, it wasn't just those lone wolves, it seems that that is what ARU was calling for in the SANZAAR meeting, because people in Australia don't pitch up or watch SA matches on tv.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/aussies-wanted-sa-out-of-super-rugby-report-20170411

Now I will try avoid making spiteful comments to Australian rugby, because I know this isn't the fans decision to push that, but the out of touch people at the top (Unless I am wrong, and all the Aussies on here can't wait to get rid of the SA teams). How is that a good idea for them though? Yes, those games may not be getting revenue within your country, but the revenue benefit of having not only South Africans watching the tournament, but also Europeans watching Super Rugby matches because of our convenient timezone placement outweighs that? Also, if you drop SA, what makes anyone think that the current viewership and game interest in Australia will increase? It isn't our fault that the sport is being dominated by other codes within the nation, and who will want to pitch up to watch New Zealand teams smashing Australian teams all the time (assuming they wanted to keep their current number of teams).

New Zealand were having none of it, it seems. I guess they realise it doesn't make sense on the financial side and the competitive side. Let's face it, New Zealanders playing us in SA and us playing New Zealanders away gets our players more accustomed to the conditions when they get the call up to the national team. You also need to be constantly pushing yourselves by playing the best to stay the best, you need that competition. We certainly benefit from that, and although not all of our SA teams are bringing that competition at the moment, there are enough of them pitching up to push the New Zealand sides. That is more than can be said from the Australian side.

Also, I get the travelling concern, but that has been a part of the tournament for over twenty years, it's a convenient excuse and not one that would justify kicking us out at this stage.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thanks Heineken, that's exactly what i wanted to know. Appreciated. Best of luck this weekend.

 

[saulan]

That article was written just to stir the pot, nothing more, nothing less.

This is all that is going to happen over the next three months to a year. The Force are looking at taking the legal route, ARU players union are looking at a strike I believe and I don't think any team in SA is going to take being kicked out lightly (except maybe the Kings, I don't expect too much push back from them, but maybe from the political front).

It should be Cheetahs, Kings, they are the obvious options with support and population in mind as well as financial potential. But I have seen arguments that there should be a spread around the country and keeping the Cheetahs and combining the Bulls and Lions. I get it from a spatial perspective and looking at how things work in New Zealand, but those two franchises are way too ingrained into the fabric of the supporters from each city and clearly the region can financially support two seperate teams in the area, not to mention both their abilities to sustain strong teams (bar the Bulls current season).

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have seen a lot of comments from what I had assumed were lone wolf public Australian figures calling for Super Rugby to cut South Africa and focus just on Australia and New Zealand.

Turns out, it wasn't just those lone wolves, it seems that that is what ARU was calling for in the SANZAAR meeting, because people in Australia don't pitch up or watch SA matches on tv.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/aussies-wanted-sa-out-of-super-rugby-report-20170411

Now I will try avoid making spiteful comments to Australian rugby, because I know this isn't the fans decision to push that, but the out of touch people at the top (Unless I am wrong, and all the Aussies on here can't wait to get rid of the SA teams). How is that a good idea for them though? Yes, those games may not be getting revenue within your country, but the revenue benefit of having not only South Africans watching the tournament, but also Europeans watching Super Rugby matches because of our convenient timezone placement outweighs that? Also, if you drop SA, what makes anyone think that the current viewership and game interest in Australia will increase? It isn't our fault that the sport is being dominated by other codes within the nation, and who will want to pitch up to watch New Zealand teams smashing Australian teams all the time (assuming they wanted to keep their current number of teams).

New Zealand were having none of it, it seems. I guess they realise it doesn't make sense on the financial side and the competitive side. Let's face it, New Zealanders playing us in SA and us playing New Zealanders away gets our players more accustomed to the conditions when they get the call up to the national team. You also need to be constantly pushing yourselves by playing the best to stay the best, you need that competition. We certainly benefit from that, and although not all of our SA teams are bringing that competition at the moment, there are enough of them pitching up to push the New Zealand sides. That is more than can be said from the Australian side.

Also, I get the travelling concern, but that has been a part of the tournament for over twenty years, it's a convenient excuse and not one that would justify kicking us out at this stage.

Hahaha, typical.

They are the conference that is struggling, even last year they had trouble with their teams, and all of a sudden they want us out? Does it perhaps have something to do with the results and that the Australian conference? Their top ranked team the Brumbies, have less points than the Jaguares who is third in the SA 2 Conference and can't even qualify at the moment for the playoffs.

As for revenue, I don't understand why they would want to make an enemy of South Africa. It is a well known fact that we are, and have been the biggest contributors when it comes to viewership and revenue.

I get what the All Blacks are saying, and it makes a lot more sense. My guess is that for the first time in a long long time, the so-called "alliance" between NZRU and ARU of steamrolling SARU at the SANZAR meetings have turned sour, and for a change, the ARU is not getting everything they wanted.

Wasn't it the ARU who started this whole problem of the conference system and team expansion?? Look where it got us.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Has SARU given any indication on when they might announce who is getting the cut? The sooner the better for everyone involved. I mean, we all know it has to be the Kings and Cheetahs but you never know with these clowns.

 

[saulan]

Has SARU given any indication on when they might announce who is getting the cut? The sooner the better for everyone involved. I mean, we all know it has to be the Kings and Cheetahs but you never know with these clowns.

June. They are aiming for around June. Absolutely insane.

Atleast ARU is aiming to get it over with in a couple of days. Typical SARU is going to spend a couple of months to make a straightforward decision and raising the anxiety of our teams for no reason.

 

[TRF_heineken]

June. They are aiming for around June. Absolutely insane.

Atleast ARU is aiming to get it over with in a couple of days. Typical SARU is going to spend a couple of months to make a straightforward decision and raising the anxiety of our teams for no reason.

Also heard June. SARU had their launch of their new tournament last night (which is basically going to replace the Vodacom Cup). So my guess is that they first want to get that up and running before looking at this issue.

My worry is that if they are delaying this announcement, what are the chances that some teams might be allowed to sway them of making a decision??

 

[saulan]

What are the chances that some teams might be allowed to sway them of making a decision??

I don't think any team has that power in SA. I think if there is any convincing otherwise it will be from a political perspective. But they are so distracted at this point with civil protests and dissent against Zuma that I don't think this is featuring too much on their radar.

(On a side and completely unrelated note that is completely of no interest to non-Saffas, I live fairly close to the Gupta house and drove past it by chance a few times on Sunday, there were about six guys with shotguns spaced by about 5 meters on the boundary outside their house. They seem to be intimidated.)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

June. They are aiming for around June. Absolutely insane.

Atleast ARU is aiming to get it over with in a couple of days. Typical SARU is going to spend a couple of months to make a straightforward decision and raising the anxiety of our teams for no reason.

Also heard June. SARU had their launch of their new tournament last night (which is basically going to replace the Vodacom Cup). So my guess is that they first want to get that up and running before looking at this issue.

My worry is that if they are delaying this announcement, what are the chances that some teams might be allowed to sway them of making a decision??

Yip. Sounds about right. Just about enough time to create the perfect environment for teams to lose sponsors, players to panic and bolt, back-room shenanigans to ensure a ridiculous decision. Particularly if you look at the way the decision is going to be made;

The newly-established Franchise Rugby Committee is made up of representatives of all six South African franchises, with the Cheetahs represented by Managing Director Harold Verster.

So, no objective and impartial views and decisions from an independant source and no taking an objective decision by the actual body that is supposed to be running things. SARU happily deligating the decision to the franchizes to fight it out is the perfect way to ensure shady dealings and decisions being made not on what is best for SA rugby. I can easily see compramizes and/or alliances steering this thing down the toilet given the amount of time they are given. Expect the Cheetahs and Kings to get games and positions (and diluting) the Lions and Stormers; the Cats and Storm Kings without identities, a fixed home and probably players and coaching staff forced on us. I'm calling it now. That or its the Bulls and Sharks getting the cut or something equally ridiculous with the Bulls getting absorbed by the Lions and the Sharks and Kings merging and moving to Bhisho.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yip. Sounds about right. Just about enough time to create the perfect environment for teams to lose sponsors, players to panic and bolt, back-room shenanigans to ensure a ridiculous decision. Particularly if you look at the way the decision is going to be made;



So, no objective and impartial views and decisions from an independant source and no taking an objective decision by the actual body that is supposed to be running things. SARU happily deligating the decision to the franchizes to fight it out is the perfect way to ensure shady dealings and decisions being made not on what is best for SA rugby. I can easily see compramizes and/or alliances steering this thing down the toilet given the amount of time they are given. Expect the Cheetahs and Kings to get games and positions (and diluting) the Lions and Stormers; the Cats and Storm Kings without identities, a fixed home and probably players and coaching staff forced on us. I'm calling it now. That or its the Bulls and Sharks getting the cut or something equally ridiculous with the Bulls getting absorbed by the Cheetahs and the Sharks and Kings merging and moving to Bhisho.

To be fair, when it was the Cats, Bloemfontein did host a few matches.

But the question would be why would the Bulls, Sharks, Lions and Stormers want to jump ship and go with either the Kings or the Cheetahs? There is no financial stability for them in doing a deal with the 2 franchises, in fact, they will lose money if they share venues.

If I was the Cheetahs or the Kings, I would rather go for the option of taking the deal and getting the "golden handshake" and see to it that the Rugby Union the franchise is representing, is properly compensated.

 

[smartcooky]

Hahaha, typical.

They are the conference that is struggling, even last year they had trouble with their teams, and all of a sudden they want us out? Does it perhaps have something to do with the results and that the Australian conference? Their top ranked team the Brumbies, have less points than the Jaguares who is third in the SA 2 Conference and can't even qualify at the moment for the playoffs.

As for revenue, I don't understand why they would want to make an enemy of South Africa. It is a well known fact that we are, and have been the biggest contributors when it comes to viewership and revenue.

I get what the All Blacks are saying, and it makes a lot more sense. My guess is that for the first time in a long long time, the so-called "alliance" between NZRU and ARU of steamrolling SARU at the SANZAR meetings have turned sour, and for a change, the ARU is not getting everything they wanted.

Wasn't it the ARU who started this whole problem of the conference system and team expansion?? Look where it got us.

A Trans-Tasman Super Rugby competition was never going to happen because who (with any money) would want to buy the TV rights? Whether we like it or not, Super Rugby cannot survive without South African broadcast money.... its that simple.

As for a Trans Tasman domestic match up, I would like to see a one-off match each year between the winners of the Mitre 10 Cup and the Australian NRC. It would not be that hard to get the timings right so that both competitions ended with finals on the same weekend, and the following weekend would be the "Trans-Tasman Rugby Challenge"

 

[TRF_heineken]

A Trans-Tasman Super Rugby competition was never going to happen because who (with any money) would want to buy the TV rights? Whether we like it or not, Super Rugby cannot survive without South African broadcast money.... its that simple.

As for a Trans Tasman domestic match up, I would like to see a one-off match each year between the winners of the Mitre 10 Cup and the Australian NRC. It would not be that hard to get the timings right so that both competitions ended with finals on the same weekend, and the following weekend would be the "Trans-Tasman Rugby Challenge"

Cooky, you and me both know that it won't ever work.

And I like this idea of yours between the Mitre 10 cup and the NRC. Maybe take it up a notch, and add the Currie Cup winners, and have Tri-nations tournament...It can be held during the EYOT.

 

[Car]

So the Force and the Rebels will have to wait even longer now:
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/force-and-rebels-must-wait/

"As soon as possible", they really couldn't have been more precise there.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I find it extremely annoying that SANZAAR let's us know they'll be cutting teams without knowing (or letting us know) which teams will be removed.
It adds speculation, unnecessary pressure and turmoil to the equation. If you know you will cut, take your time, decide where to cut and then communicate.

I agree 100% with Cocos. The cheetahs are paying the cost and the Sunwolves are free-riding.
Not only that, but i'd be quite sad to see them being cut the same season they won the CC AND being second in their conference. I'd be livid.

 

[saulan]

The committee that is deciding which SA teams remain have met for the first time. The committee features a representative from each of the 6 franchises. They have decided on headline criteria to determine which teams stay and which go:
"The agreed headline criteria, which have been weighted, are: financial and economic sustainability; sustainable support base; team performance; and stadium and facilities."


Based on the above, Kings and Cheetahs should be out.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I can only assume the reason for the delay is that they don't want the situation arising where players go on strike because they know their team is going to be cut - as occurred with the French club merger.

 

[mdaclarke]

The news that the Aussies wanted rid of the South Africans should give the South African teams every motivation to give the Aussies a right good spanking the next time they play each other!!!

 

[ReddFelon]

With the Force challenging the ARU I hope they bankrupt the filthy East Coast trash. I'd rather watch a comp of just SA/NZ teams than be told to support the Eastern scum. The ARU are a cancer.