2021 Super Rugby Aotearoa - Round 3

[OneBlackEye]

Not a good weekend for me. Fear I start supporting you, your downfall is assured.

Not to whinge about the ref but the captains challenge there was a total joke. They watched the 2 close call try replays from every angle for a good 2 minutes (correct call both times for me) then captains challenge denied after a 10 second look resulting in penalty try and yellow card 20 seconds later. WTF?

I don't think it cost us the game by the way.

Doesn't it seem like in general the commentary team and TV production crew do a way better job of these calls than the TMO and whoever helps him do? And in half the time?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i thought it was ok, i can understand the debate and i think its a good example of how they've fiddled with the rules and ended up making it worse rather than better

the idea of forward or backwards out of the hand is too subjective, ive seen people start talking about relative velocities and momentum vectors...that strikes me as our game has got too complicated.

I would honestly they rather just said it cant go forward at all and support players had to run much deeper etc as thats seems a much more simple line on the field graphic to answer it, but ive had this debate and realise i am in a minority apparently it is actually impossible to throw backwards when running that fast...not more difficult...actually impossible

i would have let it go but i would let a lot more stuff go than they pull up, slow mo make almost everything look worse

I would think that, disregarding air resistance, so long as you could pass directly backwards faster than you are running, you should be able to make the ball travel backwards. But as soon as you are passing sideways and backwards the speed of your pass has to be divided into the backward and sideways dimensions, which means the further sideways you are passing the faster your backwards sideways pass needs to be in order to keep it from going forward. It might well be true that it isn't possible for a pass that travels as far sideways as akiras did cannot by a human running at that speed he passed fast enough In any sideways backwards direction to ensure the ball doesn't travel forward.

would be interesting to see some numbers based on real passing vs running speeds.

if we are to keep the law as it is then I think all refs need some serious training on it. One of the things that makes it difficult, I think, is the refs expect a lot of air resistance, but sometimes there isn't a lot, ie when the ball is spiralling the air resistance is reduced.

Not a good weekend for me. Fear I start supporting you, your downfall is assured.

Not to whinge about the ref but the captains challenge there was a total joke. They watched the 2 close call try replays from every angle for a good 2 minutes (correct call both times for me) then captains challenge denied after a 10 second look resulting in penalty try and yellow card 20 seconds later. WTF?

I don't think it cost us the game by the way.

Doesn't it seem like in general the commentary team and TV production crew do a way better job of these calls than the TMO and whoever helps him do? And in half the time?

well, you never know what would have happened but at the end of the day it would still have been incredibly difficult to beat that crusaders team. In some aspects they played better than at any time last year; the way they broke the chiefs down when building phases was an area they were a bit lacking in last year.

I think sometimes the tv commentators get it wrong too, but they can be excused because there job is to just create commentary. If someone's job is to assess the situation they should do so carefully. The tmos too often get it wrong. Get two tmos and pay them half as much (if money is a concern) I reckon. They don't need to be selected from the set of match refs, the only skills they need is eyes, calmness, and understanding of the laws. Whereas a match ref needs to be able to deal with players, be calm enough to be able to focus on lots of different things happening in quick succession, have experience in making quick calls, etc. there's a lot of extra skills required to be a match ref.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I would think that, disregarding air resistance, so long as you could pass directly backwards faster than you are running, you should be able to make the ball travel backwards. But as soon as you are passing sideways and backwards the speed of your pass has to be divided into the backward and sideways dimensions, which means the further sideways you are passing the faster your backwards sideways pass needs to be in order to keep it from going forward. It might well be true that it isn't possible for a pass that travels as far sideways as akiras did cannot by a human running at that speed he passed fast enough In any sideways backwards direction to ensure the ball doesn't travel forward.

would be interesting to see some numbers based on real passing vs running speeds.

if we are to keep the law as it is then I think all refs need some serious training on it. One of the things that makes it difficult, I think, is the refs expect a lot of air resistance, but sometimes there isn't a lot, ie when the ball is spiralling the air resistance is reduced.

well, you never know what would have happened but at the end of the day it would still have been incredibly difficult to beat that crusaders team. In some aspects they played better than at any time last year; the way they broke the chiefs down when building phases was an area they were a bit lacking in last year.

I think sometimes the tv commentators get it wrong too, but they can be excused because there job is to just create commentary. If someone's job is to assess the situation they should do so carefully. The tmos too often get it wrong. Get two tmos and pay them half as much (if money is a concern) I reckon. They don't need to be selected from the set of match refs, the only skills they need is eyes, calmness, and understanding of the laws. Whereas a match ref needs to be able to deal with players, be calm enough to be able to focus on lots of different things happening in quick succession, have experience in making quick calls, etc. there's a lot of extra skills required to be a match ref.

I was actually trying to point out some people don't understand physics but my sarcasim obviously didn't come across

if you take it to the extreme, you can throw it directly backward and then you can throw it one degree off and then two etc so there will always be an angle, it will just be much less then what the do now

the only reason it could work is if you we're travelling faster than you can pass the ball backwards, I've always been taught the ball will always beat the man meaning a pass is almost always faster

as I say I thought the pass was ok given the laws, but the *****ing and Moaning I've seen over something that didn't effect the result makes me point out this is the alternative...people make mistakes, if we don't want them too then you'd need to make the rules less subjective

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I was actually trying to point out some people don't understand physics but my sarcasim obviously didn't come across

if you take it to the extreme, you can throw it directly backward and then you can throw it one degree off and then two etc so there will always be an angle, it will just be much less then what the do now

the only reason it could work is if you we're travelling faster than you can pass the ball backwards, I've always been taught the ball will always beat the man meaning a pass is almost always faster

as I say I thought the pass was ok given the laws, but the *****ing and Moaning I've seen over something that didn't effect the result makes me point out this is the alternative...people make mistakes, if we don't want them too then you'd need to make the rules less subjective

Ahh, well I'm glad to know you didn't actually believe it was impossible haha. But There will be a sideways distance where, at a given running speed of the passer, no humanely possible passing speed will be sufficient. But I'm not sure how relevant that is within the realitistic distances and speeds we might expect in rugby.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

but its not just the passing speed, its the angle at which you pass it back combined with the speed to create the vector needed to overcome the original one, if throwing as far as AI did and running as fast you might have to throw it 30degrees behind (thats a guess, havent done the math)

 

[The Seeker]

I don't remember if it was on the Super Rugby board or the PRO14 Rugby board, but late last year someone mentioned that ESPN Scrum hadn't been updated in awhile. At the time ESPN had announced that they were laying off 300 employees so I figured that had something to do with it. Well ESPN Scrum is back up and updated and has been for a few weeks. I just wanted to spread the word in case some of you hadn't noticed.

 

[The Seeker]