Sam Burgess back to RL

[Lé Ddanno]

Not fussed about SB leaving, but I sincerely hope it contributes to the demise of the Eng coaching team.

 

[McTallshort]

So to summarise the RFU tried to pay for him to come but other clubs got the arse so Bath ended up paying the lot which then led to Bath having a free hand in where to pick him. Having had a look at Burgess being pretty much unable to survive at Premiership level at centre, Bath determined he was going to be a better 6 and committed to a course of action to play him there. To the extent they forced a perfectly good 6 to consider his options and pack his bags. Lancaster, Farrell et al decided that despite Burgess's relative failure at Bath, they knew better and decided not only to select him in the RWC squad but to do so in his worse position. Furthermore that then required that they drop a centre who was instrumental to a decent 6 nations to accommodate him. Lancaster and Farrell then decided that on top of playing him out of position they'd partner him with perhaps the least creative man in English rugby. To make up for his defensive fragility this forced Lancaster's hand in to picking Andy's boy ahead of their previously established No 1 at fly half. Despite all that Burgess played O.K despite nearly being binned a couple of times for Leaguish hits. Lancaster then decided to drop Burgess for the one game where he might have been able to show something in order to give a run out to a real centre.............

All because he had a winning personality apparently.

This has to be the nail in Lancaster's coffin.

Yeah sums it up pretty well

 

[Maverick1987]

We have so many back row players at the moment that it won't have a long term effect . Just a shame we will have to put up with the celts bleating until Itoje/Clifford/Ewers stick it up em in the 6N

Come the end of the season we will have a huge amount of back rowers

Itoje
Clifford
Ewers
Hughes
Beaumont
Kvesic

And they are just the ones that have hardly played for England without taking into account

Morgan
Vunipola
Robshaw @ 6

 

[Mattybuck]

This whole SB situation is a sorry affair.

What frustrates me is how SB is being painted at the victim in all this.

It has been said he was picked too early and in the wrong position, then used as a scapegoat when it didn't work out.

I agree with the first two, but don't feel that those of us with knowledge and a long standing interested in Union feel that he was to blame at all!

The initial contact between SB was from SL with a view to a code switch.

RFU have then backed out of paying some or all of the transfer fee, therefore leaving up to Bath.

Without a doubt SL would have spoken to SB about playing for England and the RWC.

I strongly suspect that SB knew he was going to be picked, whether ready or not!

I very much doubt with hindsight that he was willing to give 5 years of his career to Union to learn the game ready for the 2019 tournament.

I also suspect that a swift return to League was always part of the plan.

Maybe the way the whole situation was handled has speeded up that return.

A cynic may also say that it's easier to escape the Bath contract alone rather than a potential EPS one as well.

In conclusion SL,, his team and RFU need to take some blame.

SB also needs to take some blame.

Bath have lost out, not financially but certainly they are a player down in the back row at the start of a long season.

 

[j'nuh]

RFU have then backed out of paying some or all of the transfer fee, therefore leaving up to Bath.

Why should Bath be the only team to be given assistance from the RFU? Who said the RFU was ever even going to offer any assistance?

Without a doubt SL would have spoken to SB about playing for England and the RWC.

Conjecture. If he did, he did Bath a favour by convincing him to come to union.

I strongly suspect that SB knew he was going to be picked, whether ready or not!

Conjecture. It is said that SL wanted to pick Burrell instead of Burgess but the other coaches wanted Burgess, implying that Lancaster was never tied by any kind of deal made with Burgess.

I very much doubt with hindsight that he was willing to give 5 years of his career to Union to learn the game ready for the 2019 tournament.

Conjecture.

I also suspect that a swift return to League was always part of the plan.

Conjecture.

Maybe the way the whole situation was handled has speeded up that return.

He says he missed his family. I don't not believe that.

A cynic may also say that it's easier to escape the Bath contract alone rather than a potential EPS one as well.

Why should the RFU contract a single player and not offer any help to any other club?

In conclusion SL,, his team and RFU need to take some blame.

SB also needs to take some blame.

Literally all you have done is made stuff up and said Lancaster and Burgess need to take blame for it.

Lancaster and Bath share blame for messing with his position, fast-tracking him and putting pressure on him when he wasn't ready, engaging him in media duties and hyping him. But I fail to see what Burgess is to blame for. He did as he was told whilst he was here. What more do you expect from him?

Bath have lost out, not financially but certainly they are a player down in the back row at the start of a long season.

Bath made that risk when they signed him. Bath also made the decision to allow him to be released. Bath also made the decision to have one of the smallest squads in the league and one of the smallest academies in the league.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The RFU were never going to help with a transfer fee, it would of created a ****strom in the PRL.

 

[Mattybuck]

Not saying any of it is true, just my interpretation given the way events have unfolded.

Initially RFU were going to find transfer but a **** storm did occur hence their withdrawal.

I'm not criticising SB still a massive fan of his, but feel while situation is very disappointing.

 

[McTallshort]

This whole SB situation is a sorry affair.

What frustrates me is how SB is being painted at the victim in all this.

It has been said he was picked too early and in the wrong position, then used as a scapegoat when it didn't work out.

I agree with the first two, but don't feel that those of us with knowledge and a long standing interested in Union feel that he was to blame at all!

The initial contact between SB was from SL with a view to a code switch.

RFU have then backed out of paying some or all of the transfer fee, therefore leaving up to Bath.

Without a doubt SL would have spoken to SB about playing for England and the RWC.

I strongly suspect that SB knew he was going to be picked, whether ready or not!

I very much doubt with hindsight that he was willing to give 5 years of his career to Union to learn the game ready for the 2019 tournament.

I also suspect that a swift return to League was always part of the plan.

Maybe the way the whole situation was handled has speeded up that return.

A cynic may also say that it's easier to escape the Bath contract alone rather than a potential EPS one as well.

In conclusion SL,, his team and RFU need to take some blame.

SB also needs to take some blame.

Bath have lost out, not financially but certainly they are a player down in the back row at the start of a long season.

I think most of what you have said must have some truth in it.

It obvious SB was brought in to play in this WC. Not the one in 4 years , this one.

Everyone involved in union thought he wouldn't be ready for international rugby and he wasn't yet got selected anyway!? Is this because the coaching team are so incompetent that they thought he was or was it because promises were made and pressures were applied.

Also how can he just quit rugby union? Does no one at Bath want to even challenge the fact he still has years on his contract? Or was it the plan all along. The move back to league has gone very seamlessly almost as if it was preplanned.

Lots of questions remain unanswered and the RFU as usual have made a right pigs ear of the whole thing.

 

[Mattybuck]

Regarding the Bath situation it was a real rock and hard place situation.

He was a marquee signed on £500k a year.

If Bath forced him to stay he would be unhappy and would never reach potential.

On the flip side Bath could have used that as a bargaining chip, it's been reported that it cost SS more to resign him than they got from his sale!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Apart from the cash, the only real lure for SB must have been the international game, there's simply no comparison in league. If SL or anyone in the RFU over promised or applied pressure to fast track, their heads should roll. SB may have been quite arrogant in assuming he would be able to cut it so soon (arrogance isn't a bad thing for a top sportsman) but he needed someone around him telling him the truth, not what he wanted to hear.

I don't think anyone will argue that the family is a big pull for him, but I suspect that history will show that to have only been part of the reason. The blood letting could be quite spectacular when the truth emerges. Struggling to imagine who might emerge with any credit.

 

[nutsmike]

Of course Sam must shoulder some of the blame - no one forced him to change codes. The weight of the blame lays on 'stuck in the traditional mud' of Rugby Union officials. League players are much fitter, faster and more skilful and Sam is one of the best in the world. So, what do RU dinosaurs do? They entice league players to change code, and then try to get them to play like union players - crazy. He was playing with his hands tied behind his back, and playing well below his skill level. No wonder the guy wants to go back to Aus. The RFU should concentrate on trying to improve the quality of the players they have, and look towards playing a more open and skilful game than that which is the tradition.

 

[McTallshort]

Of course Sam must shoulder some of the blame - no one forced him to change codes. The weight of the blame lays on 'stuck in the traditional mud' of Rugby Union officials. League players are much fitter, faster and more skilful and Sam is one of the best in the world. So, what do RU dinosaurs do? They entice league players to change code, and then try to get them to play like union players - crazy. He was playing with his hands tied behind his back, and playing well below his skill level. No wonder the guy wants to go back to Aus. The RFU should concentrate on trying to improve the quality of the players they have, and look towards playing a more open and skilful game than that which is the tradition.

No their not.

 

[Tony Manx]

There is no doubt the truth will become public once someone writes their book!!

Why not wait for the truth as so far it is Burgess, the RFU, Bath, the media, Lancaster and Uncle Tom cobbly and all to blame here!!!

 

[Mattybuck]

Of course Sam must shoulder some of the blame - no one forced him to change codes. The weight of the blame lays on 'stuck in the traditional mud' of Rugby Union officials. League players are much fitter, faster and more skilful and Sam is one of the best in the world. So, what do RU dinosaurs do? They entice league players to change code, and then try to get them to play like union players - crazy. He was playing with his hands tied behind his back, and playing well below his skill level. No wonder the guy wants to go back to Aus. The RFU should concentrate on trying to improve the quality of the players they have, and look towards playing a more open and skilful game than that which is the tradition.

What a ridiculous statement given that many league players have failed at Union.... Just daft to be honest

 

[Lé Ddanno]

There is no doubt the truth will become public once someone writes their book!!

Why not wait for the truth as so far it is Burgess, the RFU, Bath, the media, Lancaster and Uncle Tom cobbly and all to blame here!!!

Because it's Sunday evening, I'm not drunk, naff all is on TV and my thumb is busted so no videogames or guitar. Forum speculation and banter is the only entertainment I have right now.

Sam Burgess asked for 'a bite' of my burger and pretty much ate the whole thing and now he's going to Aus to escape my wrath.

 

[Mattybuck]

I thought the point of a forum was to air ones views...