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We Need to talk about Worcester

If Wasps also become tenants it would prevent a Worcester Warriors Men?s team playing at their own home ground due to fixture congestion. We see no other reason why Sixways could not host a phoenix Warriors team; Atlas WWRFC is hiding behind the idea that a lower league Warriors team would ?not be viable at Sixways?; we believe that they are simply trying to maximise their income from third party clubs and have no interest in reviving elite level men?s rugby under a Warriors banner.
This is the only bit I'm not in agreement with - as much as I'd like to see whatever form WW take continue to play at Sixways it's not viable unless they can get enough people through the door to keep the lights.
I don't know the figures but running a stadium on matchday must cost a pretty penny with insurance, energy, staffing etc. - what's the break even figure for that, vs how many can they expect through the door for a fixture vs Cannock/Bloxwich/Stone etc.? Can you even charge entrance for games at that level?

I guess the pitch is plastic so they could run double headers with Wasps if they had games the same day?
 
This is the only bit I'm not in agreement with - as much as I'd like to see whatever form WW take continue to play at Sixways it's not viable unless they can get enough people through the door to keep the lights.
I don't know the figures but running a stadium on matchday must cost a pretty penny with insurance, energy, staffing etc. - what's the break even figure for that, vs how many can they expect through the door for a fixture vs Cannock/Bloxwich/Stone etc.? Can you even charge entrance for games at that level?

I guess the pitch is plastic so they could run double headers with Wasps if they had games the same day?
Yeah thats the same with me. I know they say that fans will keep coming but i imagine only truely passionate fans will come to watch 4th division rugby. There's so many costs that they need to factor in to make it work. I don't think you can charge tbh, unless its yearly membership which if you take Rosslyn Park is £88 for non playing membership.

I saw some detail that Swansea/Ospreys were charged £2.7m for Liberty Stadium (21k capacity) in 2020 and this is before the increased living costs of playing staff, non playing staff and services plus energy costs increase. Now 6ways is 11k so lets say half, thats still 1.85m roughly plus additional costs mentioned.

I can't believe that this can be generated by those clubs whilst paying staff/non-staff included.

Moreover, there seems to be a belief that Dimes will now swoop in and save WW with a shining light but that just feels so unlikely. He has his new role in Edinburgh plus yes he's a very kind and open bloke but hes also a canny businessman who no doubt will have to plan something to protect against all the challenges the phoenix club face.

I just don't see how WWST feel that just the phoenix club, the womens team and raiders is financially viable (even with events etc).
 
Moreover, there seems to be a belief that Dimes will now swoop in and save WW with a shining light but that just feels so unlikely. He has his new role in Edinburgh plus yes he's a very kind and open bloke but hes also a canny businessman who no doubt will have to plan something to protect against all the challenges the phoenix club face.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of that - as much as Dimes is a rugby man he was just the public facing part of the consortium, the money men will have moved onto other things by now, surely?
Especially as championship rugby is now off the table
 
Statement below summarises the Working Group of the Worcester Warriors Supporters trust.
I don't disagree with a number of points stated below, but i feel there is a slight naivety and singular viewing from supporters.
I completely understand not wanting another team to come into the area for 3 seasons and it makes me feel uncomfortable as well but it's a huge stadium that needs to be paid for and kept running daily.

I am sure that Warriors Women, Worcester Raiders RFC and the Phoenix Club would most not likely generate sufficient funding for the ground to be kept running and the squads to get paid.
Marketing is going to be down as not in eye lines as much and with bills only increasing for keeping stadia running, money has to come from somewhere.

There also seems to be this sense of that Dimes is a shining light who would pay off creditors, finance the club and start straight in the champ. Dimes is a great bloke, a good guy but more importantly a canny businessman. He will have a plan but i'm sure that he would be thinking strategically.

@EdBirch be interested to see what you think but feels like the supporters trust seem to think that money/revenue is going to be generated from nowhere to keep the stadium and facilities and playing staff/non-staff (e.g. security, professional services etc) going.

I don't like the idea of us poaching the stadium for the next three seasons and it all feels very wrong but this statement to me just feels very narrow minded on the challenges of making the phoenix club financially viable in the stadium/facilities.

Statement from Worcester Warriors Supporters Trust to RFU: https://www.wwst.co.uk/post/statement-to-rfu-8-5-23

A Statement from the Working Group of the Worcester Warriors Supporters Trust to the RFU: 08/05/2023

The RFU has confirmed that Wasps RFC has applied to play its home matches at Sixways Stadium, the home of Worcester Warriors, for the season 2023-24. We understand you wish to consult with local stakeholders. We believe that the supporters of Worcester Warriors are firmly in this category.

As you are aware, Atlas WWRFC has no plans for any Worcester Warriors Men?s team to play at Sixways for the foreseeable future. We believe that if Wasps become tenants at the stadium it would significantly impact, in a negative manner, the prospect of a phoenix Worcester team. Although most Warriors fans would choose not to support Wasps RFC, it is inevitable, over the proposed tenancy, that they would attract a local following. This would be to the detriment of pre-existing local rugby clubs, including any potential Warriors team. Wasps have no history in our local area; we believe they are intent on effectively poaching a ?ready-made? fan-base. There are other facilities closer to their previous ground(s); we do not believe they should be allowed to effectively set up a franchise in Worcestershire.

Additionally, from an administrative perspective, a Wasps? move to Sixways would be in direct contravention of RFU regulations 3.42(a), 5.71 and Regulation 5, Appendix 2, Section 15. We do not believe that Wasps have any right to be granted immunity from these regulations. They exist precisely for cases like this.

The Worcester Warriors Women?s team and Worcester Raiders FC play their home matches at Sixways. Currently the Warriors Women are the only elite level rugby team in Worcester and supporters would want them to remain as the primary tenant. We understand that both clubs have prospective deals to stay at Sixways. If Wasps also become tenants it would prevent a Worcester Warriors Men?s team playing at their own home ground due to fixture congestion. We see no other reason why Sixways could not host a phoenix Warriors team; Atlas WWRFC is hiding behind the idea that a lower league Warriors team would ?not be viable at Sixways?; we believe that they are simply trying to maximise their income from third party clubs and have no interest in reviving elite level men?s rugby under a Warriors banner. The supporters and the wider Worcester community have no desire for a cuckoo club to install itself at the Sixways Stadium or training facilities.

We also believe that the significant financial assistance provided by Loxwood Holdings Ltd., owned by Christopher Holland the owner of Wasps RFC, was the only reason that Atlas managed to complete their deal to buy Worcester Warriors. This is certainly not within the spirit of RFU regulation 4.2.1 and could be considered a breach.

Taking all these facts into consideration, we strongly urge the RFU to decline Wasps RFC?s application to play at Sixways Stadium. It would be unforgiveable if a club without any stadium or facilities, which has left behind vast debts and misery in Coventry, was given preferential treatment over our long-established club. The legacy of Cecil Duckworth, so important to everyone in Worcester, has been emasculated by both previous and current owners and we are determined that this must be reversed.

The working group are supportive of, and thankful for, the sentiment behind the RFU FAQ Document to ex-Warrior players released on 12th April. We agree with the regulations designed to prevent a club from effectively "buying a league position." We are against the Atlas plans to link up with Stourbridge RFC and hope the RFU do not permit them to progress.


I'll be honest: I find it hard to disagree with any of that. Very well stated.
So the way i see it is that Dimes may be the cavalry but he's currently not in the position to do so as Atlas currently own it and are propped up by a loan. If it all goes belly up then maybe he'll get a chance but seems a bit hopeful. I personally don't think the RFU will allow us to join the Champ, i think that ship has sailed but would be happy to be proven wrong.

I agree there seems a naivety around the money side, a lack of money is what got us to this situation, so a lack of income won't work. I'd personally like to see a Wasps and new Worcs temporary ground share but appreciate we'd need a team for that to happen.
 
So the way i see it is that Dimes may be the cavalry but he's currently not in the position to do so as Atlas currently own it and are propped up by a loan. If it all goes belly up then maybe he'll get a chance but seems a bit hopeful. I personally don't think the RFU will allow us to join the Champ, i think that ship has sailed but would be happy to be proven wrong.

I agree there seems a naivety around the money side, a lack of money is what got us to this situation, so a lack of income won't work. I'd personally like to see a Wasps and new Worcs temporary ground share but appreciate we'd need a team for that to happen.
Completely agree here. Wuss fans need not see Wasps as a negative but a cash cow to fund the growth of the club. I just hope that this deal can benefit the fans and they can accumulate enough cash to get back on their feet.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of that - as much as Dimes is a rugby man he was just the public facing part of the consortium, the money men will have moved onto other things by now, surely?
Especially as championship rugby is now off the table
Yeah Dimes and his backers will have changed their approach now. It wouldn't surprise me if Dimes was eyeing up someone like Jersey... tax free on a nice island ? Yes please.
 
And then there's this

Yes add's a nice level of complexity to the situation. I've also seen some rumours on twitter floating about that the supporters trust has a very limited membership and has only just been created.

Lots calling on dimes to save them or a fan owned club... the problem is... not a peep has been heard from dimes and i doubt wuss fans as a collective could continuously afford to keep a team afloat, especially if based in 6ways?
 
Yes add's a nice level of complexity to the situation. I've also seen some rumours on twitter floating about that the supporters trust has a very limited membership and has only just been created.

Lots calling on dimes to save them or a fan owned club... the problem is... not a peep has been heard from dimes and i doubt wuss fans as a collective could continuously afford to keep a team afloat, especially if based in 6ways?
I think the main issue is that people don't understand what one is as they're not really a rugby thing, more football, so we don't know how it would work, if it would work etc.

To be fair to Dimes there's probably only so much he can say.

It costs millions to run a pro rugby club, that's a lot of people chucking a lot of money in for no gain

The way i see it is that we have just under 3 weeks to wait as it'll be radio silence till then.
 
I think the main issue is that people don't understand what one is as they're not really a rugby thing, more football, so we don't know how it would work, if it would work etc.

To be fair to Dimes there's probably only so much he can say.

It costs millions to run a pro rugby club, that's a lot of people chucking a lot of money in for no gain

The way i see it is that we have just under 3 weeks to wait as it'll be radio silence till then.
Indeed i think you are spot on. Hardly any clubs are fan owned and those that are (e.g Dortmund who are traded on the German Stock Market or Hoffenheim, Bayer or Wolfsburg, whose owners have been youth players/long term owners and associated for 20 years plus. Very few major teams are operating above League 1 in this way.

Most clubs from a rugby perspective couldn't expected to operate at above level 4 without a number of serious investors or a large financial institution who could back the operation.
 
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