[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[OllyM97]

I'll get pelters for this, but a big part of me doesn't want us to win this game. If we get to the semis it will cover over so many cracks and losing to either France or SA is an easy get out for the coaches "we were expected to lose anyway ". I think if we lost to Fiji again it would be the "wake-up call" moment and there would be changes in personnel and style of play for the 6N and beyond. Short term pain, long term gain.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I'll get pelters for this, but a big part of me doesn't want us to win this game. If we get to the semis it will cover over so many cracks and losing to either France or SA is an easy get out for the coaches "we were expected to lose anyway ". I think if we lost to Fiji again it would be the "wake-up call" moment and there would be changes in personnel and style of play for the 6N and beyond. Short term pain, long term gain.

There is no money to change personnel.

 

[OllyM97]

There is no money to change personnel.

Should have specified playing personnel, not coaches.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

With the exception of Samoa, no. That was the only stutter in the group stages. I already said twice the warm up and 6 nations this year were awful....here I am saying it for the 3rd time.

No Samoa was NOT a stutter, that IS England now. Argentina was the exception, not Samoa. We have 2 years of **** and in this tournament we manage to pummel a minnow and beat a badly misfiring Japan. Argentina were woeful and we performed well but Samoa was back to normal. Why do you keep saying Samoa is the stutter?

 

[Geordie]

And yet England have won all their games despite being poor. But all these other teams are fantastic.

Maybe Borthwick is just doing what he intended..try to fix the set pieces (ongoing), get them up to required fitness, and make us hard to beat.

His chosen attack Coach comes in post World Cup. Maybe then with some squad changes, you'll see big improvements.

Anyway, I'm done with the Borthwick debate. Some want him gone, some are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

It's a wait and see. If he's making no progress at all next year, I'll hold my hand up and say I was badly wrong...

For the moment let's hope they turn up v Fiji and if they do win don't get embarrassed in the SF...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

His chosen attack Coach comes in post World Cup.

Who's that?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Who's that?

Felix Jones I'm guessing.

 

[Grizwald]

I'd like to think part of the reason for England's performance on Saturday was they were already through, no one wants to get injured etc. Samoa brought their A game.

I'm under no illusion this team are much good, there's some good players in there, selctions have been a bit frustrating but I'm not sure what changes can be made with what's available, if we get passed Fiji we'll get exposed big time but thats to be expected. Freddie Steward has been poor, if he picks Ford or Farrell at 10 I'd honestly roll the dice and just pick Smith at 15. Just so slow across the back line, set peice has been ok but we've not dominated anyone other than Chile. Fiji's lineout is there to be targeted.

Fiji fortunately for England still seem temperamental, and IMO their performances have gotten worse as the group stages progressed. They have had to play there best team in each game as they've not had the luxury to rotate their squad.

There's always the chance that Fiji click at the weekend, I don't fancy England to have to chase lead of any margin.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Felix Jones I'm guessing.

I did think that but he's not really a dedicated attack coach (was brought into the Boks camp as a defence coach), and I can't see Wigglesworth being demoted after paying so much to buy him out of his contract

Think FJ will have one of those ***les like "Skills coach" or whatever, or even just generic "Assistant Coach" - that's what the press release named him as

 

[dirty harry]

And yet England have won all their games despite being poor. But all these other teams are fantastic.

Maybe Borthwick is just doing what he intended..try to fix the set pieces (ongoing), get them up to required fitness, and make us hard to beat.

His chosen attack Coach comes in post World Cup. Maybe then with some squad changes, you'll see big improvements.

Anyway, I'm done with the Borthwick debate. Some want him gone, some are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

It's a wait and see. If he's making no progress at all next year, I'll hold my hand up and say I was badly wrong...

For the moment let's hope they turn up v Fiji and if they do win don't get embarrassed in the SF...

One could compare Gatland, Borthwick and Eddie Jones, although Gatland has a huge advantage over the other 2, and therefore the improvements of Wales being more (losing to Georgia, Italy, then 5th in 6N to topping the group and a shot at a semi).

Eddie Jones went radical in his squad selection, Borthwick went conservative, and well who would switch that approach right now?

Borthwick may well be steadying the ship, alas Gatland in 2008, utilising experience before resetting in January.

 

[Zed]

I think there are 4 main issues with this England side, all inter-related Obviously their game plan stinks and doesn't work. The players seem to lack basic passing, catching, kicking skills. Even the lines they run are wrong. The players don't have faith in their coach. The players have lost confidence.

 

[Zed]

I think they'll beat Fiji comfortably.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Fiji look like they've run out of steam after 4 games. Even though England were not good, I still see them coming through this one. And more comfortably as long as SB drops Farrell and goes with Ford, Tuilagi and Marchant 10-12-13 combo.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

A good coach will start Ford and drop Farrell to the bench. A poor coach will double down and start Ford and Farrell, let's see what kind of man SB really is.

 

[HamJan]

Fiji look like they've run out of steam after 4 games. Even though England were not good, I still see them coming through this one. And more comfortably as long as SB drops Farrell and goes with Ford, Tuilagi and Marchant 10-12-13 combo.

I think Fiji saw wales as their 'must win game' and put everything into that one. Fiji, like Italy and others, don't have squad depth and will always struggle the longer the group stages wear on. My fear is that they'll see this game as a big chance and they'll throw everything at us. If their fitness is ok then anything can happen.

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

Fiji are in the quarters. They'll throw everything at this game.

 

[Saintjay]

A good coach will start Ford and drop Farrell to the bench. A poor coach will double down and start Ford and Farrell, let's see what kind of man SB really is.

Going to be Farrell first then Ford me thinks. Really hope I'm wrong.

Listening to the BBC, Borthwick stated after the game words to the effect of. "Owen brings X, Y, Z and we want him out there as much as possible". Borthwick doesn't do bluffs and rope a dope.

 

[ikvat]

Fiji are in the quarters. They'll throw everything at this game.

They seems to have no plan B.
And thos centers are massive black holes for balls.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

A good coach will start Ford and drop Farrell to the bench. A poor coach will double down and start Ford and Farrell, let's see what kind of man SB really is.

Unless Borthwick contradicts what he's previously said we know Farrell will play. It's just which shirt.

I read somewhere that Ford and Farrell had played together in our midfield more than 40 times. Totally astonishing then that they looked like they'd never met last week. A little bit of rustiness is one thing….

I'm not advocating flinging it around, but I definitely don't get a conservative gameplan. Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Earl, Curry, Lawes all fall more into the camp of ball players and / or athletes than bullies. Dan from the bench too.

Ford or Smith are both perfectly capable of playing it wider. Manu can truck it up OK (as long as we don't expect him to be a world beater) while Marchant and Lawrence are both fine given a little space. Wings not quite so clever - Arundell may be a punt but give him some space and he's got the potential to cause havoc. May's best days might be gone but he'd do most things reasonably and would probably finish well enough if the opportunity came. Steward's been done to death on here, from an attacking perspective I just think he needs a little licence - he can do it.

Gameplan's not an either / or equation. Kicking has its place but so does a little adventure.

 

[dirty harry]

Unless Borthwick contradicts what he's previously said we know Farrell will play. It's just which shirt.

I read somewhere that Ford and Farrell had played together in our midfield more than 40 times. Totally astonishing then that they looked like they'd never met last week. A little bit of rustiness is one thing….

I'm not advocating flinging it around, but I definitely don't get a conservative gameplan. Genge, Sinckler, Itoje, Chessum, Earl, Curry, Lawes all fall more into the camp of ball players and / or athletes than bullies. Dan from the bench too.

Ford or Smith are both perfectly capable of playing it wider. Manu can truck it up OK (as long as we don't expect him to be a world beater) while Marchant and Lawrence are both fine given a little space. Wings not quite so clever - Arundell may be a punt but give him some space and he's got the potential to cause havoc. May's best days might be gone but he'd do most things reasonably and would probably finish well enough if the opportunity came. Steward's been done to death on here, from an attacking perspective I just think he needs a little licence - he can do it.

Gameplan's not an either / or equation. Kicking has its place but so does a little adventure.

Against Fiji, in a RWC quarter final you want adventure?