[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[Saintjay]

As per the Times if true. My concern is Smith will get run over. The message to Steward isn't great. Eddie levels of genius or madness.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

I bet next summer Steward moves to France.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuinely not sure how I feel about Smith at 15

Feel like his cameos so far have been good but he'll be found out sooner or later - are Fiji the side to do that? Or will it be more of a kicking heavy side that does it?
Daly being leaky on the wing won't help his cause

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wow, Smith and Daly in the same back 3. Fiji won't know whether to bombard them with high balls, run round them or run through them.

 

[Zed]

No one is saying SB should clear house, just clear Farrell, and while he's at it raise to ranks of an international coach, work with the players he has and come up with a playing approach that best suites them, rather than just trying to recreate Leicester in a England shirt. And yes I know, we needed some rebuilding, back to basics blah blah, but I don't believe for one second that once the basics are sorted, that suddenly we are going to see the more expansive and cohesive attacking game adopted by every other world leading side, because I don't SB had that in him. So we will squander Smith, Arundel and others like them in favour of conservative options and style of play, driving people away from Twickenham and the youth away from the sport in general.

I agree with ya. What I'm struggling with is SBs persistence with pretty much the same players and the same strategy when it's clearly not working and that's against tier 2 sides. A small part of me thinks he's this misunderstood genius with this masterplan, come the semis (if they make it) they'll pull of a Houdini job and beat France or SA. A large part of me thinks he's completely out of his depth and doesn't have the ability to see beyond his one and only strategy.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Genuinely not sure how I feel about Smith at 15

Feel like his cameos so far have been good but he'll be found out sooner or later - are Fiji the side to do that? Or will it be more of a kicking heavy side that does it?
Daly being leaky on the wing won't help his cause

It's an interesting experiment, but this is too early. Total gamble - he's always likely to do damage with ball in hand in space, but no-one has a clue how he's going to do defensively. This is now knock out rugby - one mistake could send us home.

Sir Humphrey might have called this selection "brave" or "courageous".

 

[Zed]

Genuinely not sure how I feel about Smith at 15

Feel like his cameos so far have been good but he'll be found out sooner or later - are Fiji the side to do that? Or will it be more of a kicking heavy side that does it?
Daly being leaky on the wing won't help his cause

Found out how? Losing a foot in height to Freddie Stewart isn't going to help for high balls, but that's the only issue I can see. Defensively he might need a bit of work, but as he's quicker and more mobile than FS any problems with positioning will be compensated by that. Also if he really does suck under the high ball, there's things England can do i.e have a fluid back 3. Taller wingers could slide into position to take the high balls. I think his attacking prowess more than makes up for his inexperience or lack of height. I reckon if a side has a decent 15 that can really transform their backline.

Edit - Smith is in the starting XV?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm very jealous of France. Not so long ago they were in a similar position to where we are now. The way they've bounced back is incredibly impressive. If we could get somewhere close to that, I'd be happy.

In some respects, seeing them win the World Cup would be a great reward for a job fantastically well done. If they don't do it this time, they've got a young enough team plus another great crop coming through, which should make them contenders again in 2027.

Yeah. But they spent an unforgiveable amount of time in the rugby wilderness as it were. Completely mad.

 

[Zed]

If Smith can cope defensively with 10 he should be fine with 15. He's going to be so much better than Stewart.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Found out how? Losing a foot in height to Freddie Stewart isn't going to help for high balls, but that's the only issue I can see. Defensively he might need a bit of work, but as he's quicker and more mobile than FS any problems with positioning will be compensated by that. Also if he really does suck under the high ball, there's things England can do i.e have a fluid back 3. Taller wingers could slide into position to take the high balls. I think his attacking prowess more than makes up for his inexperience or lack of height. I reckon if a side has a decent 15 that can really transform their backline.

Edit - Smith is in the starting XV?

Not being a specialist 15 - positioning and decision making around that isn't straightforward to someone who doesn't play there weekly

 

[Zed]

Not being a specialist 15 - positioning and decision making around that isn't straightforward to someone who doesn't play there weekly

The way he plays the game and his reading of the game plus his skillset is so much higher than anyone else in his team that I really think he'll thrive at 15 and end up there longterm, at least for England. Yup most other 10s would struggle switching to 15, Ford, Farrell etc but Smith is like Quade Cooper and Kurtley Beale with their skill level and understanding of the game. Beale played 10 all through school and was chucked in at 15 for the Wallabies with little experience and then in the centres.

 

[Joe 90]

Id personally got
Ford Manu Marchant
With Smith Lawrence on the bench, and play a territory game pinning them back, which vs Argentina we proved we can do...well Ford did.
Faz is great if we have a dominant pack with a strong imbedded gameplan, where ge isnt the play maker as such, he just does well time passes to players running smart lines. Thats what i see for Sarries. Rather than drawing players and attacking the line.

My main fear is that we will have to have Ford Faz Smith in the 23 and end up with Ford and Smith at 22 23 and Lawrence misses out.

Lawrence can play, therefore he has no chance, with Farrell and Borewick picking the team.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Funny to read all the excuses/reasons for smith if things don't go well.farrells fault,Dalys fault,borthwicks fault…If smith doesn't think he can cut it at fullback now is the time to speak up,not after the game…I personally think if it is the team line up he will go well at fullback

 

[ageingback23]

I'm surprised by the selection but pleased. I agree with others above. Smith is a great attacking threat and clearly has a decent rugby brain. Like others before him (Barrett, Cooper etc) I think he could thrive back there, with space and time to make things happen. God knows we need someone to spark us into life. Problem is, we have a great game under this new setup gives BS an excuse to keep Farrel going. Suppose you can't win 'em all. Little more excited for Saturday now though.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Englands kicking game should be enough you'd think, fiji without muntz.

 

[higgik]

Genuinely not sure how I feel about Smith at 15

Feel like his cameos so far have been good but he'll be found out sooner or later - are Fiji the side to do that? Or will it be more of a kicking heavy side that does it?
Daly being leaky on the wing won't help his cause

If the wings were Arundell and (Watson), it would have been interesting.
Daly always looks like he is trying too hard and gets overworried about getting it wrong, so DOES get it wrong.

May has recently looked average even on his kick chase.

 

[petetherhooker]

If this story is true I give up, utterly give up. There are three players who absolutely not be anywhere near the team, based on current form

Mitchell - dire
Daly - genuinely years since he last played well for England
Farrell - any one but a squidbrain can see he is not currently the class fly half.

put in Care, Arundell & Ford, with Youngs off the benchto close out the game.

As a Tigers fan, I have given Borthwick time, but no more if this is true

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm surprised by the selection but pleased. I agree with others above. Smith is a great attacking threat and clearly has a decent rugby brain. Like others before him (Barrett, Cooper etc) I think he could thrive back there, with space and time to make things happen. God knows we need someone to spark us into life. Problem is, we have a great game under this new setup gives BS an excuse to keep Farrel going. Suppose you can't win 'em all. Little more excited for Saturday now though.

Smith will almost certainly do well in open field, but he doesn't yet know the position properly, the instinct can't yet be there. Fractions of a second will start to matter. It's not like he's a back 3 player swapping positions, he's been at 10 his whole career, it's a different skillset.

Maybe this is planned as a one off? He might get away with inexperience against Fiji but look at the prospective semi opponents. In different ways both could make him look very silly. The guy's a genuine talent, are we really going to risk chucking him under the bus and shattering his confidence?

 

[BrokenWing]

Unsurprisingly Haskell and Tindall sticking up for Farrell.

"He's got over 100 caps" …and?

"He's the record points scorer" … yeah, cause he kicks.

When Haskell goes off on a "be kind" rant, I get the feeling it with a caveat of "to famous people, the rest of you scumbags can **** off"

Oh, and Shane Horgan thinks that the Farrell hate is a class thing what with Farrell coming from a poor working class family.

 

[ageingback23]

Unsurprisingly Haskell and Tindall sticking up for Farrell.

"He's got over 100 caps" …and?

"He's the record points scorer" … yeah, cause he kicks.

When Haskell goes off on a "be kind" rant, I get the feeling it with a caveat of "to famous people, the rest of you scumbags can **** off"

Oh, and Shane Horgan thinks that the Farrell hate is a class thing what with Farrell coming from a poor working class family.

That all makes me chuckle. Pretty sure Farrell hates Haskel, and suspect the feeling was mutual. As for class being a factor, most people like Ford, and he's exactly the same background. Could say the same for Sinkler who came up the hard way. Total BS.