[RWC2023] Ireland vs Scotland (07/10/2023)

[Groundhog]

Scotland's Russell psyched for battle of the 10s

Finn Russell has psyched himself for the likelihood that he will have to operate at the peak of his powers on Saturday night if Scotland are to get the result they need from their critical World Cup showdown with Ireland in Paris.

www.rte.ie

Russell already throwing digs at Sexton. Can't help themselves.

Tbf I don't see the dig there. He says he thinks he needs to be in the form of his life and calls Sexton one of the best in the world.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tbf I don't see the dig there. He says he thinks he needs to be in the form of his life and calls Sexton one of the best in the world.

It was right there, in your post.

 

[saulan]

Knowing our fate isn't completely in our hands and there is a single permutation has me nervous as a South African. But then I think about the facts about these two teams.

Ireland hasn't conceded more than 20 points all year and I don't think that's going to quickly change, let alone that they slip up so badly that they concede double that. Last time they conceded that much was I think the first game against the All Blacks in New Zealand. Scotland are stronger than what they have been before, but they are not New Zealand. The same fixture with Scotland at home earlier this year had a result of 7-22 to Ireland. Given recent performances, I'm expecting a pretty similar result.

I do feel bad for Scotland though. They deserve to be in at least the quarter finals.

 

[ncurd]

I do feel bad for Scotland though. They deserve to be in at least the quarter finals.

I wouldn't say this completely they deserved to be in a group where they could compete to have a place. Not be in one where they had little chance.

But they could of completely fluffed it like Australia did.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Only one circumstance, where you score 4 trys and they do and win by a margin of 21+ (minimum score of 41-20). That ain't ******* happening. So by loosing you have to start playing all kind of games trying to out if your out or not when a win just means your through in the exact same circumstances as the losses.

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Isn't it they have to win by 21 points, scoring four tries, and Ireland score four tries? Then all teams finish on 15, scotland tops by pd, and Ireland comes second because they beat South Africa.

That's what I understand from some other post someone made.

@unrated if Ireland doesn't play their top team they'd have to be confident they could still get a bonus point.

It's more likely Ireland would lose without getting a bonus and then miss out with scotland getting a bonus

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The tiebreaker makes no sense. They should create a new table for all matches between the three teams and take the top two out of that. Pretty sure that's how soccer does it.

I agree it makes no sense, but don't agree on your solution. Why should how they performed against each other be more important than how they performed against others? That's an extension of the tiebreaker for two teams - that whoever won between the two should go through. Makes no sense. Why should that game be more important than the rest. If the team that goes through lost against another team that the team who didn't go through beat, how can you justify the team that went through is better?

The first criterion should be points difference. Simple as that.

 

[dirty harry]

Knowing our fate isn't completely in our hands and there is a single permutation has me nervous as a South African. But then I think about the facts about these two teams.

Ireland hasn't conceded more than 20 points all year and I don't think that's going to quickly change, let alone that they slip up so badly that they concede double that. Last time they conceded that much was I think the first game against the All Blacks in New Zealand. Scotland are stronger than what they have been before, but they are not New Zealand. The same fixture with Scotland at home earlier this year had a result of 7-22 to Ireland. Given recent performances, I'm expecting a pretty similar result.

I do feel bad for Scotland though. They deserve to be in at least the quarter finals.

I probably disagree with this, people keep calling the groups unfair like it wasnt based on performance, and the teams didnt know when and how it was happening.

Noone batted an eyelid when the seedlings happened, except for the Aus, Fiji, Wales combo being redone for the millionth time. Seedlings were based on actual performance at the time.

Similar to Italy, they havnt been unlucky, they were seeded where they were.

 

[General Melchett]

It was right there, in your post.

RWC23: Ireland v Scotland: 10 questions for Finn Russell

Finn Russell faced the press ahead of Saturday night's World Cup Pool B showdown between Scotland and Ireland

www.theoffsideline.com

This article has the questions too and more of his answers for context. I don't see any digs either - he's giving Sexton plenty of praise and respect. I wouldn't get too hung up on him saying 'one of the best' given that it's a team sport and he probably wants to be respectful of other world class fly halves in France, NZ, SA who also have winners medals.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

RWC23: Ireland v Scotland: 10 questions for Finn Russell

Finn Russell faced the press ahead of Saturday night's World Cup Pool B showdown between Scotland and Ireland

www.theoffsideline.com

This article has the questions too and more of his answers for context. I don't see any digs either - he's giving Sexton plenty of praise and respect. I wouldn't get too hung up on him saying 'one of the best' given that it's a team sport and he probably wants to be respectful of other world class fly halves in France, NZ, SA who also have winners medals.

I'm not being fully serious here!

I don't think either side will get rowdy. Scotland seem to thrive on the pressure it places on them but probably not the best idea to poke the bear, they need us to be a bit flat.

 

[saulan]

I probably disagree with this, people keep calling the groups unfair like it wasnt based on performance, and the teams didnt know when and how it was happening.

Noone batted an eyelid when the seedlings happened, except for the Aus, Fiji, Wales combo being redone for the millionth time. Seedlings were based on actual performance at the time.

Similar to Italy, they havnt been unlucky, they were seeded where they were.

It was based on rankings at the start of 2020- so the rankings of teams based on the previous Rugby World Cup. It's an irrelevant measure of performance for a group of players that fundamentally shift after a World Cup ends (player retirements and new builds begin after the end of a World Cup).

Italy were not seeded unfairly. Even now they are ranked 9-12. It is not the same as Scotland, who were ranked 5th going into the World Cup and just beat (albeit a partially weakened) France in France before the World Cup. Add to that, they've consistently beaten England in their last three outings and had comfortably beaten Wales earlier this year. They would have been favourites to top pool C or Pool D if they were in it. Instead they were in a group with the World ranked teams 1 and 2 going into the tournament. (Edit: On reflection Italy is seeded unfairly as they still have 3rd and 4th in the world in one group, which is unreasonable- but it isn't as bad as Scotland as with their ranking their expectation wouldn't have been to get out their group)

There is no reason that the draw couldn't have been done at the end of 2021, when the teams would've been in the cycle and thus more reflective of capabilities and performance in the cycle. The argument I think was ensuring teams had enough time for logistics Organisation, but FIFA did their draw a year out from the last World Cup. The rationale doesn't make sense.

Anyway, World Rugby have admitted their mistake on this and have said seedings won't happen so far in advance again.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Robbed from a Munster associated twitter account which won't be getting credit

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Knowing our fate isn't completely in our hands and there is a single permutation has me nervous as a South African. But then I think about the facts about these two teams.

Ireland hasn't conceded more than 20 points all year and I don't think that's going to quickly change, let alone that they slip up so badly that they concede double that. Last time they conceded that much was I think the first game against the All Blacks in New Zealand. Scotland are stronger than what they have been before, but they are not New Zealand. The same fixture with Scotland at home earlier this year had a result of 7-22 to Ireland. Given recent performances, I'm expecting a pretty similar result.

I do feel bad for Scotland though. They deserve to be in at least the quarter finals.

Haha I mean they have literally done nothing to deserve anything just yet. They entirely make their destiny and what they deserve based on what they put out there in the Ireland game. I agree in sentiment that they are unlucky, obviously, with the draw - but they haven't deserved a quarter final place yet.

For Scotland it's always about taking chances. We see it time and again year on year. Was in D'arcy Graham with the line break and didn't manage to make the pass against SA? I don't remember, but there are always chances and you've simply got no other option but to take them.

 

[die_mole]

I agree it makes no sense, but don't agree on your solution. Why should how they performed against each other be more important than how they performed against others? That's an extension of the tiebreaker for two teams - that whoever won between the two should go through. Makes no sense. Why should that game be more important than the rest. If the team that goes through lost against another team that the team who didn't go through beat, how can you justify the team that went through is better?

The first criterion should be points difference. Simple as that.

Because point differential just creates a contest where everyone tries to put 120 up against the weakest team in the group and at some point the difference between beating a team by 90 or by 80 doesn't really tell you who the better team is. However, if after the complete group you can't sort the teams out you should then just compare them in their games against each other.

Why should the games against each other be more important than the rest? They aren't, they are only used after we can't figure out who moves on after the entire group stage failed to produce two teams. Then yeah, we should look at the games between the teams involved in the tiebreaker.

 

[O’Doyle Rules]

So nervous

First try will be MASSIVE

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I've been trying to avoid discussing match-fixing simply because I can't fathom a world in which that actually occurs. There is such a small window in which SA are out but I hope that if the chips fall that way i accept it. Collusion in my mind simply is further away from being a reality than that tiniest of tiny windows.

Look, a RWC is important but I can't imagine players and staff coming together to commit a criminal act to gain what? Chuck away an unbeaten record you've been working how long on with a chance to potentially throw yourself out in the pool stages if there is any margin of error, lose all credibility for yourself even if you weren't worried about legal implications should anything be able to be proven all to get rid of a team you've beaten three times in a row and lets be honest if Ireland had a choice between SA and France in a final they'd probably choose us, right? So even if I could convince myself that the entire Irish contingent had it in them to commit to such a course I simply can't see the benefit. My 2 cents worth not that I think anyone on here needed it. I just felt to get it out of my system having read some BS elsewhere but not wanting to grace it with a response.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've been trying to avoid discussing match-fixing simply because I can't fathom a world in which that actually occurs. There is such a small window in which SA are out but I hope that if the chips fall that way i accept it. Collusion in my mind simply is further away from being a reality than that tiniest of tiny windows.

Look, a RWC is important but I can't imagine players and staff coming together to commit a criminal act to gain what? Chuck away an unbeaten record you've been working how long on with a chance to potentially throw yourself out in the pool stages if there is any margin of error, lose all credibility for yourself even if you weren't worried about legal implications should anything be able to be proven all to get rid of a team you've beaten three times in a row and lets be honest if Ireland had a choice between SA and France in a final they'd probably choose us, right? So even if I could convince myself that the entire Irish contingent had it in them to commit to such a course I simply can't see the benefit. My 2 cents worth not that I think anyone on here needed it. I just felt to get it out of my system having read some BS elsewhere but not wanting to grace it with a response.

Don't know if there's much preferences between you and France but I think we want a crack at NZ after the last World cup. That was a real embarrassment that we can rectify.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Don't know if there's much preferences between you and France but I think we want a crack at NZ after the last World cup. That was a real embarrassment that we can rectify.

Well, 9 times out of 10 you'll get that chance after this not that one wants to get too far ahead but still.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I do feel bad for Scotland though. They deserve to be in at least the quarter finals.

Its okay. After this match they'll be hung, drawn and quartered. Which is close enough.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

My pal got a ticket for this on the halfway line yesterday for £400 because he was so pumped up by the Romania performance (?!!?). Its fair to say I wasn't tempted to join him.

If you see a 6'5" bald, broken hearted, inebriated Scotsman at the stadium, be gentle. For both your sakes.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Its okay. After this match they'll be hung, drawn and quartered. Which is close enough.

I feel bad for Scotland only insofar as it must be very demoralising to see some of your best chances and players slip away (soon) and to wonder whether there will be a better opportunity for success.

It's very different with England because of a bigger player pool but nonetheless.....we will never ever get a better shot at a world cup than 4 years ago. And it's our own fault. We simply haven't taken the opportunities when we had them and that is how some careers will have to be defined.