[RWC2019][Pool A] Round 2 - Japan vs. Ireland (28/09/2019)

[Bada-Bing!]

Gonna rewatch the second half of this match. Lost interest in SA v Namibia.

 

[bushytop]

Gonna rewatch the second half of this match. Lost interest in SA v Namibia.

Now that actually sounds like a plan.

 

[corny]

There is thought in it though. The best teams spend a significant amount of time understanding how different refs operate, and the smart players in the game realise how things are being reffed and are able to alter game plans. They covered it in a fair bit of detail in the science of sport podcast about the All Blacks, I recommend giving it a listen

Adapting to the ref is predicated on him being fair and consistent. Like i've said to you you're confusing interpretation with things that can't be legislated for. Ireland did their work on Gardner. You can be sure of that. Him allowing a free for all to the opposition just goes beyond analysis and adaptability though. A bit like Joubert 8 years ago for France. What do you do when the referee just hands the game to the opposition. Not much you can do. Its silly to suggest otherwise.

I suggest you watch back the period where Ireland were camped on the Japanese line in the second half. More than 5 rucks happened where the Japanese were a metre in front of the hindmost foot. No whistle. Moments later the whistle goes for an Irish offside. It was a microcosm of the entire game and it was galling in the extreme.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Your one did say it was just a slogan so thought I would elaborate for them. As above, I recommend watching with cooler heads later before piling in on the ref. I know I'm guilty at times of not doing that but trying to get less bogged down in "in-the-moment" this RWC

I don't need to, I was fairly cool watching the game.

 

[BobbyM]

Adapting to the ref is predicated on him being fair and consistent. Like i've said to you you're confusing interpretation with things that can't be legislated for. Ireland did their work on Gardner. You can be sure of that. Him allowing a free for all to the opposition just goes beyond analysis and adaptability though. A bit like Joubert 8 years ago for France. What do you do when the referee just hands the game to the opposition. Not much you can do. Its silly to suggest otherwise.

I suggest you watch back the period where Ireland were camped on the Japanese line in the second half. More than 5 rucks happened where the Japanese were a metre in front of the hindmost foot. No whistle. Moments later the whistle goes for an Irish offside. It was a microcosm of the entire game and it was galling in the extreme.

And might I suggest as above watching the whole game. People often only see when their team has been "cheated" but don't see the decisions they benefited from. It's why I say watch the game back so get the full context of the infringements from both sides

 

[dullonien]

I didn't notice anything overly galling from Gardiner. I was rooting for Japan, so wasn't totally neutral, but still... there was one challenge in the air that should have been pinged, but that's probably the only obvious one.

Imo Japan were simply better than Ireland for 60+ minutes of the match. They were more physical, both in defense and offense. The tempo they played at was a good notch or two higher. Their linespeed in defense was far higher as well. They left a few point from the tee out there as well.

All in all Japan thoroughly deserved to win and probably by a slightly bigger margin as well.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I thought Angus Gardner was very good and so did everyone I was watching with.... he's always been a loose free flowing ref but it went both ways as it usually does. Ireland just couldnt handle the speed, skill and accuracy of the Japanese. Ireland were way too one dimensional and got absolutely outplayed. Simple as that.

 

[TigerBay]

Ireland's first loss to a minnow in a world cup since defeat against Wales in 2011.

Probably better to reflect on this after Ireland have played Russia and Samoa.

 

[BobbyM]

I don't need to, I was fairly cool watching the game.

Excellent. As such, might I cautiously suggest that in the same post asking for folk not to dig at the ref while also saying he "let the occasion get the better of him" might suggest otherwise from an unbiased point of view.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Watching the game again because SA and Namibia is a waste of time, and seeing very little to make me disagree with my initial take, which is both that Japan were better and absolutely deserved their win, and that Angus absolutely f***ed us.

 

[Paulo]

Thats just a slogan. There's no thought behind it.

What do you do when there's competition for the ball after the ruck has formed or when there's players constantly lying in the way of the scrum half? Stand on them? Ask the Japanese to stop cheating? Good teams adapt to interpretations but this went beyond interpretation. He gave one team a brilliant platform with the whistle and gave the other a mountain to climb in possession. We didn't have that much in hand of Japan in the heat to begin with. He decided the game.

No, Ireland's are #2 in the World (well, prob not now I haven't checked), you should have been able to win comfortably. This whinging after every loss is stupid. And yes, fans from all teams do it.

 

[Rinkadink]

As neutral I would say Japan got the rub of the green from the ref overall, I thought he was poor all round. EG: Ireland should have been pinged for holding on at one point near the end but nada, Japan offside at a ruck shortly after; nada. Didn't actually look at what was happening but seemed to make calls from his "feels" and "pictures" painted by players.

Still, I think Japan were good value for their win and it's not the end of the world for Ireland. There's some real venom being thrown at our Irish here (usually reserved for other "hated" sides) and it's disappointing. Celebrate the win whilst respecting the losing side and fans. Best game of the tournament in entertainment value, well done all. Onwards.

 

[BobbyM]

Watching the game again because SA and Namibia is a waste of time, and seeing very little to make me disagree with my initial take, which is both that Japan were better and absolutely deserved their win, and that Angus absolutely f***ed us.

I await the springbokesque video.

In all seriousness though and people have said before SH refs appear to interpret rules differently to NH refs, just one of those things.

 

[munstermuffin]

Same thing happened with Addison and look how that went, as soon as there was any kind of doubt about Conan Jordi wasn't going to be allowed within a mile of a rugby pitch. Too early to be jumping to conclusions.

If Conan is out then it's a massive blow, Stander will basically have to play every minute of the knockouts if we want to have any kind of chance, and it leaves us with more or less no option for rotation in the backrow.

No conclusions just good inside info. Perk of job

 

[Rinkadink]

I thought Angus Gardner was very good and so did everyone I was watching with.... he's always been a loose free flowing ref but it went both ways as it usually does.

See, this is all wrong to me.

A referee should apply the laws of the game and that's that. Sure, common sense if you can but ignoring stuff for the sake of "free flowing" rugby or whatever is artificial and flawed. If players don't infringe the game will likely be free flowing anyway but legitimately.

Anyway, I didn't want to get drawn into this debate but felt I had to add reason to proceedings. Back to South Africa vs Namibia.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I await the springbokesque video.

In all seriousness though and people have said before SH refs appear to interpret rules differently to NH refs, just one of those things.

The rucks maybe, but the blatant offside on the tackle from Murray after the kick or the obvious penalty on Kearney in the air is just straight up poor reffing.

Not worth complaining about though, as I say Japan deserved their win.

 

[Paulo]

We should just save some time. Let's take a copy of this thread but edit out Ireland, Japan, and Gardener, then after the next upset or game between some top contenders we can just edit in the relevant teams and the refs name.

This is the same whinge SA had about their loss, this is the same whinge I'm sure Wales or Australia will have tomorrow, and I know for sure it will be the whinge in the finals when the ABs win games. Ofcourse, I'm sure everyone thinks this is just whinging... except when it's about their own team, then it's, you know, a genuine grievance and travesty.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Massive loss, bigger blow to our tournament than this game really.

If South Africa can make it to the semi's after losing to Japan, then Ireland can.

 

[Paulo]

Watching the game again because SA and Namibia is a waste of time, and seeing very little to make me disagree with my initial take, which is both that Japan were better and absolutely deserved their win, and that Angus absolutely f***ed us.

I'm not sure how your tears can be salty and sweet at the same time... but there you go.

 

[BobbyM]

We should just save some time. Let's take a copy of this thread but edit out Ireland, Japan, and Gardener, then after the next upset or game between some top contenders we can just edit in the relevant teams and the refs name.

This is the same whinge SA had about their loss, this is the same whinge I'm sure Wales or Australia will have tomorrow, and I know for sure it will be the whinge in the finals when the ABs win games. Ofcourse, I'm sure everyone thinks this is just whinging... except when it's about their own team, then it's, you know, a genuine grievance and travesty.

The SA NZ thread has developed nicely. Once tempers calmed down there was a bit more balance there and it seemed to get to a more sensible place