RWC: France V Canada (18-09-2011, 20:30)

[Canucks]

It is precisely because I respect the Canadian team that I don't choose the easy option of the pat in the back, "good game, better next time". I think their forwards held up well, and their 10 and 13 are good players. I love how rugby is slowly but surely improving in countries like Canada, USA, Japan,... I do think though that France controlled the game pretty well given the weather. And because controlling that match and scoring a BP was never going to be an easy task for France that's why I think France had a "good game".

Now there is something you don't see and that might explain my opinion to you. The french press has been all over the french team for ages now, and even when they win with a BP, there is always something wrong with this or that. I'm quite tired of this attitude, which is a bummer for the players, and really shows arrogance. When we lost to Italy in the last 6N, no commentator or journalist thought about congratulating the Italians, they just went on about how Lievremont is bad, this player is old, etc.
So, this time, we won by a comfortable margin, lets be happy about it ffs.

Pardon the impression of arrogance, next time we meet should be closer, seeing the impovement curve of both countries in the last years. Cheers

That's the thing with internet forums, you really have a hard time getting meanings across and it's very easy to misconstrue comments. Before when you said it wasn't impressive, I was unaware that we were being held to a higher standard. In that respect I agree, it was a very unimpressive rugby game.

I profusely apologise for my previous comments, it appears that a lot was misconstrued.

I live in Scotland and because Canada is not a big rugby nation, I tend to take a lot stick about my Canada rugby jersey, especially when Scotlands losing. All week I heard about how Canada was lucky to beat Tonga and how France is going to destroy Canada in every part of the game so I did get very defensive with you.

I was unaware that the French rugby team get the same treatment as our Hockey team. It really is irritating. For example, during the 2010 Olympics (pretty much hockey's world cup) we barely beat Switzerland. Switzerland 4 NHLers on there team whereas Canada is pretty much an all star team. Lots of negativity and the end of the world prophecies from the media.

I would really like to see a game played on a nice sunny day. Wouldn't benefit Canada however it would nice see both sides able to run somewhere around full speed and be able to attack.

 

[LittleGuy]

That's the thing with internet forums, you really have a hard time getting meanings across and it's very easy to misconstrue comments. Before when you said it wasn't impressive, I was unaware that we were being held to a higher standard. In that respect I agree, it was a very unimpressive rugby game.

I profusely apologise for my previous comments, it appears that a lot was misconstrued.

I live in Scotland and because Canada is not a big rugby nation, I tend to take a lot stick about my Canada rugby jersey, especially when Scotlands losing. All week I heard about how Canada was lucky to beat Tonga and how France is going to destroy Canada in every part of the game so I did get very defensive with you.

I was unaware that the French rugby team get the same treatment as our Hockey team. It really is irritating. For example, during the 2010 Olympics (pretty much hockey's world cup) we barely beat Switzerland. Switzerland 4 NHLers on there team whereas Canada is pretty much an all star team. Lots of negativity and the end of the world prophecies from the media.

I would really like to see a game played on a nice sunny day. Wouldn't benefit Canada however it would nice see both sides able to run somewhere around full speed and be able to attack.

Surprised to see Scottish fans giving you flack, they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory so far with an escape from a tough Romania and struggled with Georgia. The Scottish game has huge long term challenges and their player pool isn't that much larger than Canada's. They are perhaps the only nation in the IRB where the game is on the decline.

 

[Surefire]

Canadian fullback James Pritchard had a new addition to his family two hours before kickoff, as his daughter Hayden Emily Pritchard was born. Congratulations James on what is turning out to be a couple of special weeks for you.

Nice post/announcement! Congrats J.P.!

 

[Surefire]

Hey Canucks,

I have enjoyed your posts because they are always well thought out with good facts and opinions. So keep posting! I am going to Aberdeen in three weeks so I will try and give a little of the business back to the Scots for you! I am really looking forward to the Canada-Japan game as both teams are fun to watch.

As far as France is concerned;
1. Huge fan of Trihn-Duc, but his clearing kicks in the Canada game were pretty awful on two occasions I can remember. I wonder if a pure #10 shoud have been picked like Jonathan Wisniewski as an injury replacement instead of Doussain for Skrela.

2. Looking forward to the AB game and I hope Lievremont picks the strongest side possible.

 

[M Two One]

I didn't get to stay up to watch this match unfortunately, could someone give me a brief on the details?

About France receiving heat from the press, isn't that how it always is in sports? The French press is awful.

Jonathan Wisniewski would have been a great backup at fly-half, but he usually seems to be unappreciated.

 

[Brad John]

France didn't play very well and still managed to score 4 tries under the rain, with 13 players different from the japan game. Canada was in no way impressive, only counted on mistakes under high balls and penalties.
I think France's plan was to ensure victory first and then start playing wide. The first part of the plan has been a bit harder than it should. Once it was done, everything went well. I don't know who said France was scared but that's pure fantasy. Truth is they stayed composed, didn't rush into stupid counterattacking, and ensured the BP at the end.

Good game.

So how would you describe the game as 'good' if Canada wasn't 'impressive'? With only 6 professionals and most of the other having regular jobs, I think it was impressive.
Show Canada a bit of respect, they pushed a fully professional side for 60+ minutes... 14th in the world to 4th.

France didn't play well? about as well vs Japan, so that would make it two games not playing well, a bit troublesome if I was a French fan, no?
Drop the arrogance, either your just a fool, or under the age of 19, that's the only two excuses I can understand for your posting.

 

[elgringoborracho]

So how would you describe the game as 'good' if Canada wasn't 'impressive'? With only 6 professionals and most of the other having regular jobs, I think it was impressive.
Show Canada a bit of respect, they pushed a fully professional side for 60+ minutes... 14th in the world to 4th.

France didn't play well? about as well vs Japan, so that would make it two games not playing well, a bit troublesome if I was a French fan, no?
Drop the arrogance, either your just a fool, or under the age of 19, that's the only two excuses I can understand for your posting.

Holy ... Not this again...

Edit: read subsequent posts in order to understand absence of arrogance. Sorry to you too.

 

[Canucks]

So how would you describe the game as 'good' if Canada wasn't 'impressive'? With only 6 professionals and most of the other having regular jobs, I think it was impressive.
Show Canada a bit of respect, they pushed a fully professional side for 60+ minutes... 14th in the world to 4th.

France didn't play well? about as well vs Japan, so that would make it two games not playing well, a bit troublesome if I was a French fan, no?
Drop the arrogance, either your just a fool, or under the age of 19, that's the only two excuses I can understand for your posting.

Aahahahah while it's good to see people as passionate as I if you read posts after that one you'd see that everything has been clarified.

No disrespect was meant. Infact the Canada wasn't impressive is probably more on the complement side of things.

As for Scots, well I don't know they are very nice people until we get to sport or anything English. For some reason, if it's not something they are succeeding at then no one else should enjoy it. That or all talk centers around Celtic/Rangers.
They struggled a bit but Romania and Georgia are 2 very physical teams and employed similar tactics that Canada and States did but speaking with them they either make sound like they have no problems or that rugby is a stupid sport.

 

[Seaton]

Just to say I've been telling the local Saffas since the game why they shouldn't be so surprised at Canada's win over Tonga and that their (Canada) game against France shouldn't be taken for granted

Somones gotta defend us :lol:
Aberdeen rulez B)

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

Let's go for another one Gringo !

Nice behavior Canuks. I clearly understand and approve your comments on the the difficulty of getting meanings on a forum, even if we're not speaking SMS.
Imagine some of us don't even speak English as a mother language...

 

[LittleGuy]

Is their anyword on the injuries to Canada? I was worried about Van De Merwe's arm/shoulder.

 

[Brad John]

Just to say I've been telling the local Saffas since the game why they shouldn't be so surprised at Canada's win over Tonga and that their (Canada) game against France shouldn't be taken for granted

Somones gotta defend us :lol:
Aberdeen rulez B)

Canada is not exactly top of the list as a rugby nation people pay attention to... Canada is surprising a lot of people as they haven't seen/noticed the improvements through coaching and funding from the IRB.
Canada used to lose by 50 - 60 points vs top tier nations, but conditioning has closed that gap. Canada has loads of strong, nasty, capable athletes that mostly went to hockey, gridiron, lacrosse, but are now stepping into rugby.

I predict Canada back in the world top 10 within 8 years.

 

[elgringoborracho]

Let's go for another one Gringo !

Nice behavior Canuks. I clearly understand and approve your comments on the the difficulty of getting meanings on a forum, even if we're not speaking SMS.
Imagine some of us don't even speak English as a mother language...

Agreed!

 

[CDN_Rugby]

I predict Canada back in the world top 10 within 8 years.

While I certainly hope that's true, a lot more has to be done to make it a reality.

The biggest hinderence to Canadian rugby is geography. Considering that 90% of the country is under a metre of snow for eight months of the year and our country has seven time zones, selectors and national competitions will always be at a disadvantage. It also doesn't help that the BCRU has a spoiled brat mentality and refuses to make rugby a summer sport. As long as we have two seasons and a lack of a pathway to national team selection we will suffer. In order to play for Canada do you have to play in the CRC? Or does turning out for your BC Premier League club cut it? Some do both, and others do one or the other (and some do none at all). We need more clarity on BC's commitment to the CRC and we need the regions putting forward their best possible sides. Anything less undermines the competition.

Additionally, the media exposure has to be there. It's great that so much rugby has been on TV the past few years (TSN has done a fantastic job showing EVERY RWC game and an abundance of Canadian tests) but that has to continue if we want to draw new supporters and young kids to the game. As far as the media goes, CRC games need to be televised. Why can't the CBC do this? Its mandate is to promote Canadian content, and what better way than to show games from Canada's top domestic competition? Surely it wouldn't be a big hassle considering that most CRC games are played in cities where the CBC has major offices (Toronto, St. Johns, Calgary, Vancouver). Rugby Canada needs to push hard for the CBC to broadcast games because countries are only as strong as their domestic competitions.

Additionally, the Pacific Pride has to be brought back. It produced so many great players it would be insane not to bring it back and focuss on the development and recruitment of players that are right out of high school. Do that and more players will be turning to rugby rather than Hockey, Canadian Football, or Lacrosse. Why would a kid play those sports for free when he could get a sport canada stipend, free education, and live in BC year round? Maybe that's being too optimistic, but the more incentives there are for quality athletes to take up rugby, the better our national teams will be.

If all of this is done and we place a renewed emphasis at the development of rugby at the grassroots level (i.e. having quality mini's and high school programs in provinces other than BC) Canadian rugby will be better off. Argentina has shown that a professional domestic competition isn't necessary to be competitive on the international stage, but Rugby Canada has also shown that top-down investment in the sport doesn't work well either.

Canada reclaiming the top ten status in international rugby that it had in the early nineties will be no small feat. If we are to do it, however, it has to start at the bottom. No more band-aid solutions; its time to streamline the pathway to national selection and invest at the bottom, not the top.

If we do that, Canada can be a powerhouse in rugby.

 

[formerlyfastwing]

Additionally, the Pacific Pride has to be brought back. It produced so many great players it would be insane not to bring it back and focuss on the development and recruitment of players that are right out of high school. Do that and more players will be turning to rugby rather than Hockey, Canadian Football, or Lacrosse. Why would a kid play those sports for free when he could get a sport canada stipend, free education, and live in BC year round? Maybe that's being too optimistic, but the more incentives there are for quality athletes to take up rugby, the better our national teams will be..

this is not a swing at you, but did the Pride further the game, ie: increase player base, and quality of player across the country?

honest question.

 

[Tricia McMillan]

This does not make sense. Of course they deserve the bonus point they scored the amount of points needed.

Perhaps not. As with most of my posts made during or just after a match, I was drunk when I typed it. I think what I was really just trying to say is that 46-19 doesn't really reflect the fact that Canada were able to hang in there for most of the match. Doesn't really have anything to do with four-try bonus point; I'm not sure why I said that. I blame the booze!

 

[CDN_Rugby]

this is not a swing at you, but did the Pride further the game, ie: increase player base, and quality of player across the country?

honest question.

It didn't increase the player base per se, but it did help develop a lot of quality players who went on to represent Canada and play in top league's overseas. Obviously, that kind of mentality is part of the problem when Rugby Canada places too little emphasis on the importance of grassroots development. We need to create an environment for the elite players that are not ready to go overseas to develop, but we also need to do a lot to grow the game at the bottom. Cutting back on the top heavy organizational structure of Rugby Canada wouldn't hurt either.

What I'm saying is that we need more money going to grassroots rugby (and U-23 Elite development) as opposed to going to the Rugby Canada bureaucracy and the carding of players who are pushing 30, or over 30.

Basically, we're trying to build a skyscraper with the foundation of an outhouse. Broaden the base, then go from there.

 

[Jayatron]

Rugby Canada needs to push hard for the CBC to broadcast games because countries are only as strong as their domestic competitions.

&

If all of this is done and we place a renewed emphasis at the development of rugby at the grassroots level (i.e. having quality mini's and high school programs in provinces other than BC) Canadian rugby will be better off. Argentina has shown that a professional domestic competition isn't necessary to be competitive on the international stage, but Rugby Canada has also shown that top-down investment in the sport doesn't work well either.

&

Canada reclaiming the top ten status in international rugby that it had in the early nineties will be no small feat. If we are to do it, however, it has to start at the bottom. No more band-aid solutions; its time to streamline the pathway to national selection and invest at the bottom, not the top.

If we do that, Canada can be a powerhouse in rugby.

Some excellent points. I look forward to seeing what the minnows, especially Canada, can bring to international rugby.

What's your realistic prediction for Canadian rugby between now and the 2015/19 world cups? And out of interest would you want to see a fully pro CRC?

 

[CDN_Rugby]

Some excellent points. I look forward to seeing what the minnows, especially Canada, can bring to international rugby.

What's your realistic prediction for Canadian rugby between now and the 2015/19 world cups? And out of interest would you want to see a fully pro CRC?

How Canada will look between 2015/19 is tough to say. Having the CRC fully professional would probably push the national team into the top 10. However, I can't see that happening any time soon. Realistically, Canada will probably be going into the next two RWC's ranked between 12-16. In essence, where they are now. Crowley has done a damn good job developing players (guys like Kleeberger, Sinclair, O'Toole, and Phil Mackenzie) and if that can continue to the next WC Canada could again challenge for third spot in the pool.

That said, Canada's showing thus far is a welcome change of pace from the usual disappointment that has plagued the last few world cup campaigns. If Canada can ever get back to where they were in the early 90s (RWC quarterfinal birth in 1991, beating Wales in 1993, beating France in 1994) I'll be happy. Hopefully the decline of Canadian rugby that has been happening since the 1995 RWC has ended.

 

[Surefire]

Perhaps not. As with most of my posts made during or just after a match, I was drunk when I typed it. I think what I was really just trying to say is that 46-19 doesn't really reflect the fact that Canada were able to hang in there for most of the match. Doesn't really have anything to do with four-try bonus point; I'm not sure why I said that. I blame the booze!

Booze has done this to me many times!