RWC: All Blacks - France (24-09-2011, 15:30)

[nickdnz]

Not true! Colin Slade is nowhere near being world Class! same goes for the replacement flanker for Mccaw whoever it is. The All Blacks also lacks World Class locks apart from Brad Thorn and as for their scrumhalves, well Cowan, Weepu and Ellis all have serious faults in their game which has been exploited numerous times...

The Downfall for the All Blacks this time around is that they DON'T have that surplus of world class talent in their ranks as they think they do, and hopefully the French can exploit it with this game to make the other qualifiers aware of things they might have missed...

I very much disagree. New Zealand has brilliant player, we just select poorly. Thompson (think that's the guy you meant) is not a 7 and yet is made to play there. Despite that we have very good cover in Matt Todd (probably the form 7 in the Super 15), Luke Braid and Scott Waldrom who are all very good players whom would have been comfortable cover for McCaw if (god forbid) he became injured. Colin Slade is looking average so far, but Aaron Cruden who was the star player of the ITM Cup and looking very good at the end of the S15, was not selected. Hosea Gear, Joe Rokocoko, Sitivini Sivivatu are all World Class wingers with out a doubt, but Henry prefers Zac "Mac Gold" Guildford and two midfielders come wingers in Kahui (who is always classy no matter where he plays) and Sonny Bill Williams to play wing after regretting picking Guildford.

At prop we have the most dominant scrummaging prop in the whole S15 in Wyatt Crockett and yet he misses out to an improving Woodcock. At locks we are a little shallow, with Thorn being the only player who I'd actually be comfortable with in the team (and I still want Chris Jack in there, but he wasn;t ever really in selection).

With that being said there are some positions in this current squad that there are a heck of a lot of World Class players. Dagg, Jane, Toeava and Muliaina are all world class options at fullback/wing but you can only pick two at a time. Kahui and Sonny Bill Williams are both world class despite being behind Nonu and Smith who I believe are the best 12 and 13 in the world. All our problems are down to selections and mixing and matching. I'm happy to take Kahui over Guildford in any test, but I'd rather have Gear/Sivivatu/Rokocoko on the wing over Kahui because they are world class wingers who are tested. Sonny Bill Williams on the wing is amazingly dumb considering the number of right wingers in the squad who are also world class.

I disagree that Weepu isn't World Class. He's been 10x the player that Fourie du Preez has been this Tri Nations, he just didn't fire in a few games. He runs the game brilliantly and has a quick and accurate delivery. His only problem is he can take too long getting to the ruck (which I put down to fitness considering he is so quick when he comes off the bench).

 

[Icemn]

Not true! Colin Slade is nowhere near being world Class! same goes for the replacement flanker for Mccaw whoever it is. The All Blacks also lacks World Class locks apart from Brad Thorn and as for their scrumhalves, well Cowan, Weepu and Ellis all have serious faults in their game which has been exploited numerous times...

The Downfall for the All Blacks this time around is that they DON'T have that surplus of world class talent in their ranks as they think they do, and hopefully the French can exploit it with this game to make the other qualifiers aware of things they might have missed...

well my friend we are talking about "choking" right? so we talking about 99 and 2007..when they "choked" right? so why are you talking about current players??? go look at the teams when they actually "choked".... if they do go out of the WC... it will be because of the rotation system breaking momentum...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

France is a force in rugby and will beat you if you're not on top of your game no matter your position on the world rankings. That said, NZ SHOULD still win this match but when it's a case of close teams playing in a pressure game anything can happen as Ireland has already shown us. Still, NZ are rightly favorites and this is still a pool game with no 3rd team to put pressure on the loser of this match so I think the whole choke thing and/or France being a bogey team for NZ is not relavant to this match. If anyone has a good record against NZ in RWC's it's SA or Aus; SA has not lost to NZ in a RWC and have beaten them twice while both SA and Aus have better match win ratios in RWC's than NZ do; 86% and 85% vs the 83% of NZ.

This is still the match of the weekend though IMO!!

 

[ranger]

Not true! Colin Slade is nowhere near being world Class! same goes for the replacement flanker for Mccaw whoever it is. The All Blacks also lacks World Class locks apart from Brad Thorn and as for their scrumhalves, well Cowan, Weepu and Ellis all have serious faults in their game which has been exploited numerous times...

The Downfall for the All Blacks this time around is that they DON'T have that surplus of world class talent in their ranks as they think they do, and hopefully the French can exploit it with this game to make the other qualifiers aware of things they might have missed...

 

[Icemn]

If anyone has a good record against NZ in RWC's it's SA or Aus; SA has not lost to NZ in a RWC and have beaten them twice !

say what??? what happened in 2003? in that 1/4 final??? SA vs NZ??? wasn't the score 29-9 ??? Nz scoring 3 tries and you managing only 3 penalties at goal?? what you talking about??? the 3rd place play off in 99...when no-one cared??? lmk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

All Blacks losing this match wouldn't be a choke anyway - The All Blacks "choke" thing is when they get knocked out sooner than they should - a loss here would just mean 2nd in their pool, they'd still progress (to arguably an easier set of knockout stages, as well)



Really looking forward to this match though - hope that France win even if that would mean that England could face the All Blacks in the quarters

 

[Aout]

Guys, don't expect too much from France on this one.

 

[SelimNiai]

Working when this is on

Dammit Meg

 

[SelimNiai]

Guys, don't expect too much from France on this one.

Which means they're probably going to win

 

[psychic duck]

two games into the World Cup and playing their biggest match yet and Lièvremont is still trying new things out, Parra at 10 should have been tried out in the warm ups not against New Zealand

and why is Harinordoquy and Servat on the bench?

 

[TRF_heineken]

I very much disagree. New Zealand has brilliant player, we just select poorly. Thompson (think that's the guy you meant) is not a 7 and yet is made to play there. Despite that we have very good cover in Matt Todd (probably the form 7 in the Super 15), Luke Braid and Scott Waldrom who are all very good players whom would have been comfortable cover for McCaw if (god forbid) he became injured. Colin Slade is looking average so far, but Aaron Cruden who was the star player of the ITM Cup and looking very good at the end of the S15, was not selected. Hosea Gear, Joe Rokocoko, Sitivini Sivivatu are all World Class wingers with out a doubt, but Henry prefers Zac "Mac Gold" Guildford and two midfielders come wingers in Kahui (who is always classy no matter where he plays) and Sonny Bill Williams to play wing after regretting picking Guildford.

At prop we have the most dominant scrummaging prop in the whole S15 in Wyatt Crockett and yet he misses out to an improving Woodcock. At locks we are a little shallow, with Thorn being the only player who I'd actually be comfortable with in the team (and I still want Chris Jack in there, but he wasn;t ever really in selection).

With that being said there are some positions in this current squad that there are a heck of a lot of World Class players. Dagg, Jane, Toeava and Muliaina are all world class options at fullback/wing but you can only pick two at a time. Kahui and Sonny Bill Williams are both world class despite being behind Nonu and Smith who I believe are the best 12 and 13 in the world. All our problems are down to selections and mixing and matching. I'm happy to take Kahui over Guildford in any test, but I'd rather have Gear/Sivivatu/Rokocoko on the wing over Kahui because they are world class wingers who are tested. Sonny Bill Williams on the wing is amazingly dumb considering the number of right wingers in the squad who are also world class.

I disagree that Weepu isn't World Class. He's been 10x the player that Fourie du Preez has been this Tri Nations, he just didn't fire in a few games. He runs the game brilliantly and has a quick and accurate delivery. His only problem is he can take too long getting to the ruck (which I put down to fitness considering he is so quick when he comes off the bench).

I'm not diagreeing that NZ have World Class players at all, they're not the no. 1 ranked nation for nothing. I was merely stating to Icemn that in certain positions like Flanker and Fly Half and to some extent lock, the All Blacks don't have WORLD CLASS backup players when the no 1 choice player is injured...

Wyatt Crockett is the best prop IMO in NZ, just look at the super 15 and tri-nations games where he dominated everyone! Dagg is such a revelation and he certainly is World Class. wings, well the All Blacks has always had World Class wings...

don't read my post out of context, but Colin Slade has not lived up to the standard expected from him, Aaron Cruden needs to prove he is international material, by being great in the ITM cup doesn't mean he's going to be as great in international games too... as for Adam Thompson, yeah he might be Mccaw's back-up but he's not World Class in my opinion, the same goes for Vito...

 

[Icemn]

lol i was just thinking now... landing 2nd in this pool will call for an easier run through the 1/4 and maybe semi's...imagine both teams playing for the loss how comical will that be bahhbahahahwaaaaaa reminds me of the Leon Schuster movie " Sweet & Short" lol lmimm AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA rolf

 

[Icemn]

I'm not diagreeing that NZ have World Class players at all, they're not the no. 1 ranked nation for nothing. I was merely stating to Icemn that in certain positions like Flanker and Fly Half and to some extent lock, the All Blacks don't have WORLD CLASS backup players when the no 1 choice player is injured...

Wyatt Crockett is the best prop IMO in NZ, just look at the super 15 and tri-nations games where he dominated everyone! Dagg is such a revelation and he certainly is World Class. wings, well the All Blacks has always had World Class wings...

don't read my post out of context, but Colin Slade has not lived up to the standard expected from him, Aaron Cruden needs to prove he is international material, by being great in the ITM cup doesn't mean he's going to be as great in international games too... as for Adam Thompson, yeah he might be Mccaw's back-up but he's not World Class in my opinion, the same goes for Vito...

didn't you read my reply on your comment earlier?

 

[TRF_heineken]

the reason why the AB do badly in the knock-out is because of their depth... they have too many world class players in each position so the coach has to rotate... you can't really blame him, but it breaks the teams momentum... so every week the team has to rebuild from scratch where some teams only have 15 good players and are forced to play with them..building momentum in the process...

and i'm afraid the AB are doing the same thing again... and it is because of this that they so called "choke"... if GH picks 15 players and stick with them changing 3 players max per game.... nobody will stop the AB....

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but those sentences are not in the past tense, but in the present tense and you are talking about the previous world cups as well as the current one... i was merely voicing my opinion based on that!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Allright I missed one but my point still stands; talk about the ABs choking, in the context of this game, is irrelevant as it's a pool game (with 3rd team who could still sneak in) so has precious little influence other than which side of the track you go towards the final and the AB's biggest threats (if they do win and go up that track) will be the Springbokke or Wallabies in the SF.

 

[jaunard06]

two games into the World Cup and playing their biggest match yet and Lièvremont is still trying new things out, Parra at 10 should have been tried out in the warm ups not against New Zealand

and why is Harinordoquy and Servat on the bench?

That makes sense, Dusautoir has to be there against ABs for his experience, Bonnaire is probably the player that currently performs the best as well in line out as in defence, and Picamoles for his attacking ability. Quite balances back row IMO. Also Hari has ugly ball handling !

BTW I love the picture on your profile...^_^

Dimitri is as good as Servat in scrummaging and faster on the field, although it has slighlty less physical impact. Speed will be required on saturday as we will spend most of the match in our half...

 

[Icemn]

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but those sentences are not in the past tense, but in the present tense and you are talking about the previous world cups as well as the current one... i was merely voicing my opinion based on that!

ok i'm with you but my point is still valid... i wasn't just focussing on the fact that they have WC players in every position more on them rotating players and breaking momentum... the part about having world class players in every position relates more to prev wc... they had much more depth in prev WC...

regarding Slade... the AB are breaking momentum by resting Carter... cuz i think he wasn't injured, just rested to minimize injury risk....

 

[erwanseb]

I am pretty happy with Lievremont's choices, Trinh Duc has not performed during the first two games, he might come in at half time and have a hell of a game.

Skrela being injured and Trinh Duc needing a "rest", what else can he do ?? For sure the ABs will target the 10's channel, Nonu at full speed against our 76 kg Parra might cause some damages.

I am hundred per cent sure Trinh Duc is our best fly-half and will come stronger, but that's good management from Lievremont as this is not a play off game.

For the rest of the team, provided that Picamoles does not forget his brain in the dressing room, the back row is potentially our best with Harinordorquy coming later.
Mas being injured , the front row makes sense. Against the ABs, Swarzeski might be a better choice than Servat as he is more mobile.

If France can keep in touch with the ABs on the scoreboard for 50 minutes, with Barcella, Trinh Duc, Harinordoquy, Heymans coming in at the hour mark, our bench may proved to be the difference.

I do actually think the ABs are better all over the park (with some exceptions, our best back three Clerc/Heymans/Medard might get the edge there) but France probably have a better bench, which is somehow logical as we are yet to find our starting XV.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Traille should never be anywhere near a blue jersey again. Carter will have a field day kicking at him, and putting players in Parra's channel.

 

[Surefire]

So here we are... we're about to play against the best team of the world, who got the best fly half of the world... and we'll play them with a 1m80 & 77kg number ten, who played only one time as a fly half over the 4 last years...

+1. As I stated before in this forum, I am a fan of Trihn-Duc, but he has not been himself the last few games. However he does bring more defensive presence IMO, than Parra. What we gain from Parra might not be enough to cover what we lose w/ even off form Trihn-Duc.

I am always up for a good gamble, and I have been more wrong than right when it comes to Rugby predictions so let's see how it goes!