RWC 2011: THE FINAL!!! France vs. New Zealand

[Logorrhea]

I love the people having a cry about Joubert. It's pathetic.

Look around a bit. Pretty much every neutral forum on the internet is talking about Jouberts performance. Even the South African ones. You dont need to take it so personally.

New Zealand fully deserved to win the tournament, they were by far the best team in the tournament, and fully confirmed their place as the best team in the world by some massive distance. During the final though, they played probably the worst game of rugby they have played in 4 years. They needed the ref to help them across the line (nothing crooked, just deserved karma) and they got that help. Joubert simply refused to ping New Zealand for any offence within their own half, and there were three or four occasions we could have done so.

I'm not saying this to devalue the win. As I said, if they didnt win it would be a tradegy but for the neutrals who arent as involved as you are, it was definately noticeable, and very worth of discussion.

 

[Peat]

I love the people having a cry about Joubert.

I've cut the rest of this fairly good rant because I haven't been paying attention and can't believe anyone's having a whine about the ref. He had a good game - missed a few things from both sides, probably more from NZ than from France, but thats rugby. The match is still in the players' hands.

Too many people are behaving like wendyballers/PMS'ing women these days.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hear people mention high tackles a lot - where were these?

The only time I remember a situation when someone could THINK a high tackle may have occurred was when a French player ducked down into a tackle of Dagg's, but that wasn't a high tackle.

What were the other instances?

There were a few (4 or 5, I think) by the ABs - the commentators called them as well, I remember Conrad Smith doing one - can't remember who did the others but they were probably mentioned further back in the thread

They weren't like full on clothes line to the face, instant red card, type tackles, but all worthy of a penalty

Look around a bit. Pretty much every neutral forum on the internet is talking about Jouberts performance. Even the South African ones. You dont need to take it so personally.

New Zealand fully deserved to win the tournament, they were by far the best team in the tournament, and fully confirmed their place as the best team in the world by some massive distance. During the final though, they played probably the worst game of rugby they have played in 4 years. They needed the ref to help them across the line (nothing crooked, just deserved karma) and they got that help. Joubert simply refused to ping New Zealand for any offence within their own half, and there were three or four occasions we could have done so.

I'm not saying this to devalue the win. As I said, if they didnt win it would be a tradegy but for the neutrals who arent as involved as you are, it was definately noticeable, and very worth of discussion.

I agree with all of this

New Zealand deserved to raise the trophy, and they deserved to have their pictures taken behind the banner saying "World Champions 2011" - They are the best team in the world, have been pretty much constantly, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, simple as that
They just didn't look the best team yesterday

 

[barthelemy]

I love the people having a cry about Joubert. It's pathetic. There was one point where Harinordoquy was on the ground at the opposition side of the ruck, wasn't the tackler and he just played the ball on the ground from a mile offside to pass it (from the ground) to his team. There is no way it was general play because a ruck had totally formed. Regardless, you take the odd mistake in your stride. No way he influenced the game, the All Blacks didn't give away many penalties the same was France didn't give away penalties in the semi, through defense and little pressure at the rucks. If you look, Cruden had the ball when he was injured and the advantage goes to the attacking team. Parra got injured while trying to tackle Nonu and a stray knee from McCaw while he was clearing out the ruck, the attacking team still had the advantage. I'm sure if Joubert saw him he'd have stopped it, but he was busy looking at the next few breakdowns to focus on one player down in action.

Some people are just so petty.

No worries, Most of french people do not care about the referee and as I said there has been odd calls in our favour as well in the second half. The combo punch/knee of Mccaw in the face of Parra was bad but it is impossible to say if he makes it in the move or on purpose so it is an useless discussion. For me we have been lucky Weepu missing 2 relatively easy penalties so I do not have a lot of regret.

Anyway, in rugby union there are rucks and rucks are not always easy to referred during the action itself so if you do not like the power of a rugby union referee, go watch rugby league

 

[Izzoard]

Parra got injured while trying to tackle Nonu and a stray knee from McCaw .

Actually, if you look at the slo-mo replay, Parra took the blow from McCaw's semi-clenched hand, his head was knocked out of the way and only took a glancing blow from the subsequent knee.

I'm not taking a pop at McCaw, rugby's a rough game, but it was a semi-punch.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think the last 3 posts for me says it better than I could; the AB's were full value for money but it ccan't be denied that Joubert did not go to his whistle in the AB half with the French on the attack where he probably would've under 'normal' circumstances. That's the nature of the beast. No need to be precious about it. Like I said, it was still one of the better ref performances ina WC dominated by shocking refereeing.

Edit; LOL, while I was typing this a few more posts came in before mine of course.

 

[donmcdazzle]

There were a few (4 or 5, I think) by the ABs - the commentators called them as well, I remember Conrad Smith doing one - can't remember who did the others but they were probably mentioned further back in the thread

They weren't like full on clothes line to the face, instant red card, type tackles, but all worthy of a penalty


I agree with all of this

New Zealand deserved to raise the trophy, and they deserved to have their pictures taken behind the banner saying "World Champions 2011" - They are the best team in the world, have been pretty much constantly, and probably will be for the foreseeable future, simple as that
They just didn't look the best team yesterday

Which is why it's nice we are official world champs for once, even though we didn't play very well in the final. France weren't good enough to beat us though, our defence was good enough to hold on so I think we deserved to win the game even if France had a bit more of a crack than we did. I don't think France looked any better, if they did they would have beaten us.

 

[Izzoard]

Look around a bit. Pretty much every neutral forum on the internet is talking about Jouberts performance. Even the South African ones. You dont need to take it so personally.

New Zealand fully deserved to win the tournament, they were by far the best team in the tournament, and fully confirmed their place as the best team in the world by some massive distance. During the final though, they played probably the worst game of rugby they have played in 4 years. They needed the ref to help them across the line (nothing crooked, just deserved karma) and they got that help. Joubert simply refused to ping New Zealand for any offence within their own half, and there were three or four occasions we could have done so.

I'm not saying this to devalue the win. As I said, if they didnt win it would be a tradegy but for the neutrals who arent as involved as you are, it was definately noticeable, and very worth of discussion.

Well said. After three high (but not extremely dangerous tackles), the ref at a minimum should have had a word with McCaw, or awarded a penalty.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Actually, if you look at the slo-mo replay, Parra took the blow from McCaw's semi-clenched hand, his head was knocked out of the way and only took a glancing blow from the subsequent knee.

I'm not taking a pop at McCaw, rugby's a rough game, but it was a semi-punch.

McCaw has made a career out of getting away with 50/50 stuff, if you think he is dumb enough to intentionally punch a guy out in the open, then you are not thinking properly.

 

[Izzoard]

France weren't good enough to beat us though,

I think the point is, that on the day, for those 80 mins, perhaps they would have been, IF the ref had truely equal.

That said, a truely magnificent team won the RWC.

McCaw has made a career out of getting away with 50/50 stuff, if you think he is dumb enough to intentionally punch a guy out in the open, then you are not thinking properly.

I'm not saying what his intentions were, how could I possibly know that? I'm just saying what I saw in the Slo-Mo, his head had been mainly knocked out of the way before the knee arrived.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well said. After three high (but not extremely dangerous tackles), the ref at a minimum should have had a word with McCaw, or awarded a penalty.

I agree but if you have a look at all the games in this RWC it's as if high tackles were only pinged if the reciever made a bit of a show of it which I find unfortunate as even if they aren't as dangerous as say a spear tackle, they inevitably stop the momentum of the ball carrier and thus is a good reson to concede a penalty even if there wasn;t much in it ITO danger to the attacking player. This game where I counted 3 is nothing compared to our (Springbok) game against Aus though. Watch that and our last 3N game against them in SA. Danie Rossouw on his own gets tackled high 3 times between those games. How you manage to tackle a guy 20cm taller than you and who has a habit of running to upright in the first place is beyond me. Getting away with it as par for the course leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Sour grapes? LOL you bet ya.

 

[Sam Owen]

Sam--Yes I do get it... I might be French, but I'm not that dumb, gee...

Who said French were dumb?...

I just have a different take on his original post. You say the fact that he wrote what he did is a clear indication he's a troll...

Where did I say he was a "troll"?....I used the word fake because when you check his previous posts most of them suggest that he is not an All Black supporter, again you have been found inconsistent.

Well, I'm not so sure. To me, it's perfectly understandable to have a real AB fan say he'll be nervous to the point that he would objectively favor France in a close game with 10 min to go (see: 1999, 2007)... Strange you're not even willing to concede that, troll or no troll...

First of all, you're obviously new to this forum and I welcome you. Second, I am a proud Manu Samoan supporter, umm I think thats why the Samoan flag is under my name, jeepers I think I should make it bigger for those who cant see, Im not fake like some of these pretenders who come on and pretend to be from somewhere and just criticise their own "supposed" countrys rugby team only.

I like the people of New Zealand I live here but ask anyone in this forum and they'll tell you that Ive often backed other teams to beat the All Blacks and more often then not Im right on my game predictions, just like I knew the All Blacks would win the RWC. All Blacks to me has been the best Rugby team in the world for a long time and if you really know rugby then you can understand why I say that.

France played great like I said before they (according to the RWC) is the second best rugby team in the world, despite losing three times in the tournament.

They played their absolute best but it wasnt good enough was it?...last 10 minutes, first 10 minutes, any 10 minutes, 1999, 2007, 1994 what does it really matter?...they still lost. He (nix0000) said that his money would be on the French to win in the last 10 minutes, I said the All Blacks would win. He was wrong I was.....yeah, I wonder how much he was willing to bet?....I wouldve loved to take his money, hard to gamble against a brother like me who knows rugby.

As for your rambling second paragraph, yes, who said otherwise? And why do you even mention the ref? Funny how defensive you seem to be almost 24 hrs later... Still a bit on the edge after sweating it out for 80 min when you thought you were just going to roll over our guys?

Like I said my team conked out and failed to make it out of pool play. I was going for the All Blacks because they really are IMO the best team at rugby, France played good but they are not the best rugby team in the world IMO. So had France won, I wouldve congratulated them here on TRF but to call them the best team in the world wouldve been lying to myself.

As for the rambling about the game in my second paragraph you're talking about, that was to do with nix0000. Because you see, you jumped in on me and nix0000 business and thats what I was refering to, he was moaning about the All Blacks having the rub of the green with the reff, the All Blacks this the All Blacks that and that just doesnt sound like a person who is happy his team who had just won a world championship, do you finally now understand?

 

[donmcdazzle]

I think the point is, that on the day, for those 80 mins, perhaps they would have been, IF the ref had truely equal.

That said, a truely magnificent team won the RWC.

I'm not saying what his intentions were, how could I possibly know that? I'm just saying what I saw in the Slo-Mo, his head had been mainly knocked out of the way before the knee arrived.

Aren't hypotheticals great. Well if France had got one of these penalties you think they deserved and kicked it, perhaps we would have regathered the restart and scored the winning try..

The ref was alright, France got away with a few things too, and if they had won I'm sure people would be blaming him for costing NZ the game again. He certainly didn't win us the game or cost France the game. They couldn't create enough pressure or get close enough for a drop goal so they weren't good enough.

 

[Aout]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo

 

[Ostrayian]

From a neutral perspective who probably would prefer to see our brothers across the ditch win anyway, I think that Joubert was very liberal towards what he allowed the AB's to get away with and often at times would ping France with a certain infringement and then let NZ get away with the same infringement 2 minutes later.
I thought NZ played the perfect game against australia but under pressure against the french is nothing Aussies havent already seen in the last 8 years when we have put them under the pump. You play to the refs whistle and move on.
having said that they may have not deserved to win the game(much like australia against SA earlier) but they deserve to be the world champions and have done so for a while without the official acknowledgement.
I am happy to see NZers enjoy the win as much as they can as its been a tough couple years for them as a nation.

 

[donmcdazzle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo

If you want to see bad reffing, go watch the quarter in 2007 again and then get back to me.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo

That's a very convenient highlights reel

They didn't look at the instance in the first few minutes where a French player picked up the ball while they were on the ground, from an offside position, which was probably one of the most obvious penalties in the match. It's easy to find instance for/against any team in any match.

Again, a very convenient reel.

 

[Izzoard]

From a neutral perspective

who probably would prefer to see our brothers across the ditch win anyway,

Isn't that an oxy-moron? ;-)

 

[Sam Owen]

Well said. After three high (but not extremely dangerous tackles), the ref at a minimum should have had a word with McCaw, or awarded a penalty.

Are you a referee?....just asking.

 

[squirrel]

in a game so close the ref is always gonna have a say in the outcome, what always irked me was having mike cronn as the irb scrum advisor
if stu dickinson was the ref france would have won