Rugby to be banned in schools

[gaston le gaff]

In France very few schools play rugby, all the kids are at rugby clubs we at Montpellier have over 600 i think they start at 4/5 yrs old but the big difference is they have to have licenses, which means a doc. visit before, to see if they are apt ( i even have a non player license to go on the field to do my interviews its extenely well monitored) and then everyone is insured against injuries by the club + you can have personel on top of that, which i believe does not happen in the UK. Plus you have pro educateurs and not maybe sports teachers (have nothing against them but it does not install confidence in the parents) The parents are always invited and everything is done in a proper fashion, how to tackle etc which side to put the head but they do not start tackling till they get older. Plus they form the lines of honour before matches and get close to the guys who play in the TOP 14 and sometimes the players visit their session which not only boosts the kids and the parents also think this is good and it does make a difference. Trinh-Duc, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Julien Tomas, Louis Picamoles just to mention a few all came through the ranks of the ecole de rugby at Montpol

 

[goodNumber10]

First rugby, now Big E...what is this world coming to? Gonna miss both...

Okay, onto business:



American football has had many catastrophic injuries, from paralysis to blown knees that end careers prematurely. I would say just about the opposite of what you've said - rugby has more injuries, but (American) football has more one-and-done career-ending injuries. What I mean by that is that many times the first injury a football player gets is also his last.

Rugby has long been considered a 'safer' sport - kids play it, old men play it...it just takes a slight adjustment to the rules (like a soft tackle or shorter running distances), without fundamentally changing the game. The only way to make American football safe is to make it tag or flag football, which pretty much just makes it a game of tag, with a ball.


das

Sorry when I saw football I thought Football not NFL. NFL deffo more career ending injuries.

In France very few schools play rugby, all the kids are at rugby clubs we at Montpellier have over 600 i think they start at 4/5 yrs old but the big difference is they have to have licenses, which means a doc. visit before, to see if they are apt ( i even have a non player license to go on the field to do my interviews its extenely well monitored) and then everyone is insured against injuries by the club + you can have personel on top of that, which i believe does not happen in the UK. Plus you have pro educateurs and not maybe sports teachers (have nothing against them but it does not install confidence in the parents) The parents are always invited and everything is done in a proper fashion, how to tackle etc which side to put the head but they do not start tackling till they get older. Plus they form the lines of honour before matches and get close to the guys who play in the TOP 14 and sometimes the players visit their session which not only boosts the kids and the parents also think this is good and it does make a difference. Trinh-Duc, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Julien Tomas, Louis Picamoles just to mention a few all came through the ranks of the ecole de rugby at Montpol

We looked into it. Children start at 6 here, at least in IDF they do. Tried three clubs none with any kind of rugby tots program.

Straight into full contact no pathway like the English, he is 4 but a lot bigger than French children his age, but like you say no licence no play so he is playing tennis.

At this age I would let him play it's more would I want him to play seriously? It'll be his choice though.

 

[gaston le gaff]

really tough choice for parents, but there is so much more to rugby than the actual playing, i had 2 major back ops broken bones by the (lots) over 200 stiches, but would never change anything fantastic career as an amateur, still see loads of guys i played with now, in fact this weekend my old coach is coming for the weekend, i stopped in 86 same time as he did.
If the kids are placed in developed clubs with serious people behind those clubs, i really dont see where the problem is, hell you can get hurt by a bus car or anything and still be on the pavement. These days everyone, wants to sue at the smallest problem its society thats wrong certainly not rugby, get the poor little sh** of their ar*** and turn the fu***** computer off, fresh air ,sport, meet some great people learn respect give respect values, not even going to mention how many girls came running!!!!!!! etc etc hope i dont get banned for this!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

There is a point when bowing down too everything and anything that might cause harm, might cause offense, might, might, might whatever just drains the life out of the world. I am not overreacting to this article specifically, you see it everywhere you look.

 

[gaston le gaff]

YOU MUST BE PC IN EVERYTHING TO DO OR IN SERIOUS TROUBLE THESE DAYS!!! GLAD I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT I LIVE IN THE DAYS WHEN A SIMPLE HANDSHAKE WAS YOUR WORD AND I STILL STAND BY THE VERY SAME gesture and believe you me it does have its qualities

 

[big ginger 8]

Pretty sure there was a study done in Australia a few years ago where the two codes were lumped together and rugby had the highest percentage of injuries of any sport (of course in a country where A.F. isn't played) including martial arts and boxing. However of course the idea the rugby should be banned in schools in pretty laughable. Naturally I can't comment on other countries but there are many rules based on keeping kids safe so that they won't be doing anything resembling proper rugby until they're about 12 and even then there'll be no lifting in the lineouts. Typical of kids rugby also is that there isn't a lot of big collisions. Most apart from that one fat kid run across the pitch and away from contact.

Also kids are going to get injured doing stupid stuff because they're kids. Why not let them have fun in what is a controlled environment.

 

[RedruthRFC]

iirc.

Football has more injuries but rugby has more catastrophic injuries.

This is the point that a few posters seem to be missing. Stories of a boy dying on the field of play and of rugby leading to a trip to Dignitas for another player allow journalists to cobble together a pretty compelling argument against the sport for many people, particularly the type of people who read the Granuiad. This being the case, I believe that the RFU / IRB need to take a proactive stance to demonstrate that they are monitoring and working to reduce the risks of playing the game. To be fair, the concussion protocols are receiving more exposure, but there is much more to be done.

 

[Tony Manx]

This is the point that a few posters seem to be missing. Stories of a boy dying on the field of play and of rugby leading to a trip to Dignitas for another player allow journalists to cobble together a pretty compelling argument against the sport for many people, particularly the type of people who read the Granuiad. This being the case, I believe that the RFU / IRB need to take a proactive stance to demonstrate that they are monitoring and working to reduce the risks of playing the game. To be fair, the concussion protocols are receiving more exposure, but there is much more to be done.

I would agree with all that but one only has to look at the number of children (and my grandson was only 4 when he started in Hong Kong) all around the world who participate every week then the percentage of poor lads/lasses who have serious or worse injury is very, very small indeed.

Life is dangerous and sure we should try and eradicate risks as much as humanly possible (viz F1 racing) but to want to ban it? Perlease......

 

[ratsapprentice]

To be frank - the stats on serious injuries make it quite easy to defend rugby from this criticism.
As has been pointed out - the numbers of "catastrophic" injuries are multiple times (!) higher in Gymnastics and Equestrian sports, and significantly higher in numerous other team sports.
The stats clearly shut down her argument.

For those interested: http://irbplayerwelfare.com/pdfs/CI_Risk_Assessment_EN.pdf

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

The most compelling evidence for rugby to be banned - not that I agree or want that - is for the long term effects of Concussion, rather than these one of tragic accidents. Someone with a bee in their bonnet about rugby would be well advertised to look at the evidence of cases like Shontayne Hape rather than looking at the freak accidents.

 

[dasNdanger]

Sorry when I saw football I thought Football not NFL. NFL deffo more career ending injuries.

And speaking of American football:

HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYER DIES AFTER ON-FIELD COLLISION ON LONG ISLAND

NEW YORK (WPVI) --
A high school football player died Wednesday night after being injured in game on Long Island in New York.

Junior Tom Cutinella, a guard/linebacker for Shoreham-Wading River High School, collapsed during the game against John Glenn High School after taking a big hit by an opponent and suffering a head injury.

The incident occurred in the third quarter of the game at John Glenn.

Cutinella underwent surgery, but later died at Huntington Hospital.

The Superintendent of Shoreham-Wading River Schools released a statement saying, "The Shoreham-Wading River School District community is terribly saddened to learn of the tragic death of Tom Cutinella, a high school junior and varsity football player. Tom passed away after colliding with an opponent in Wednesday night's game against Elwood John H. Glenn High School."

"Our school community is truly devastated by this awful news and we all extend our deepest condolences to Tom's family and friends during this difficult time."

"Tom played football for the district since he entered the high school in ninth grade, becoming a member of the varsity team this year. In addition, Tom played lacrosse and was a member of the Natural Helpers program, which focuses on peers helping peers. He excelled academically, had a great sense of humor and was just a great individual overall. He was well-liked among students and staff and he will truly be missed."

"Each student is a valued member of our educational community and a young person's death is always tragic. A sudden loss like this can have a profound effect on the entire school community. Grief counselors will be made available to students and staff for as long as needed as we mourn and cope with the loss of such an amazing life."

http://6abc.com/sports/high-school-football-player-dies-after-on-field-collision/333491/

Very sad. Not sure how often this happens in rugby, but over the years a lot of high school kids have died playing American football - some from injuries such as this, others from undiagnosed heart conditions, and still others from heat exhaustion (which is common across all high school sports). I don't know the stats, but we hear of this sort of thing at least once a year, I'd say.

EDIT: I just did a quick search for deadliest high school sports in the US. Here's how the top ten rate, starting with the deadliest. NFL-style football comes in 4th:

1. Boy's softball/baseball
2. Boy's water polo
3. Boy's gymnastics
4. Boy's American football
5. Boy's lacrosse
6. Boy's basketball
7. Boy's ice hockey
8. Boy's soccer
9. Girl's water polo
10. Boy's cross country

Info from here: http://www.weather.com/health/deadliest-high-school-sports-20130812


das

 

[RedruthRFC]

The most compelling evidence for rugby to be banned - not that I agree or want that - is for the long term effects of Concussion, rather than these one of tragic accidents. Someone with a bee in their bonnet about rugby would be well advertised to look at the evidence of cases like Shontayne Hape rather than looking at the freak accidents.

Very true, there was an interesting thread on this a couple of years back. I think I mentioned Bernard Jackman's autobiography in that thread as being one of the first to blow the whistle. It's great to see more and more players being honest about the problems within the game. On the other hand I find it incredible that Toulouse weren't made an example of after the Florian Fritz incident and that the Top 14 have only reacted by putting some weak, wishy washy protocols in place.

 

[gaston le gaff]

please explain what weak and wishy washy protocols are, since the Fritz incident there are more and more players sent to the changing rooms for medical tests by Doctors not some water boy or other, the situation is being taken extrelely seriouly and i think your comments have nothing to back them up.I am present everyweek at Top 14 matches and everything possible is now being done, try contacting the Sarencens prop (Richard Barrington) who we looked after after he was strectered off in our pre season friendly. with concussion and he spent the night in intensive care just to be sure there was not a problem Saracens actually travelled without a doctor, i arranged that they could use ours now that is very wishy washy as you so call it. I saw things that day from Sarries staff that i have never witnessed in France. I am not even going to go into the Figallo affair, where he was not given permission to play in France , but hey hoe he turns up for Sarries, that could possibly be also weak and wishy washy, please do not knock what happens in France if you do not know and just second guess.

 

[Tony Manx]

Well said Gastony, well said!

 

[OedipussyRex]

EDIT: I just did a quick search for deadliest high school sports in the US. Here's how the top ten rate, starting with the deadliest. NFL-style football comes in 4th:

1. Boy's softball/baseball
2. Boy's water polo
3. Boy's gymnastics
4. Boy's American football
5. Boy's lacrosse
6. Boy's basketball
7. Boy's ice hockey
8. Boy's soccer
9. Girl's water polo
10. Boy's cross country

Info from here: http://www.weather.com/health/deadliest-high-school-sports-20130812


das

Pretty bad in college, too. I was in a competition where a kid crossed the finish line and dropped dead. Congenital heart problem. Worst part, he came in 8th place in a field of over 100, so all the rest of us got to finish the race next to the paramedics trying to revive him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Allyson Pollock piping her head out again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32383607

Now wants non contact games, lower amount of players and weight matching.

Suppose it is getting better than a ban.

 

[McTallshort]

Didnt play it in the schools I went to anyway. Played all my junior rugby at a club and I was the only kid bar one in my school that played Rugby.

 

[goodNumber10]

Allyson Pollock piping her head out again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32383607

Now wants non contact games, lower amount of players and weight matching.

Suppose it is getting better than a ban.

AFAICT, she is asking for what the RFU already provide, non-contact rugby with fewer numbers with a gradual progression path to contact rugby.

The weighting system is fine, if you play contact rugby! RFU sponsored children rugby isn't contact based until 11 i think, and Scrums are introduced later and restricted in power until u19 outside the elite level.

I think that's all right, anyone have a different take on it?

 

[goodNumber10]

Dan Cottrell letter to the Spectator last year:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-prof-pollocks-views-more-than-disappointing-dan-cottrell

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Allyson Pollock piping her head out again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32383607

Now wants non contact games, lower amount of players and weight matching.

Suppose it is getting better than a ban.

Does she suggest that matching weights makes the sport safer? If you had two kids of the same weight but with a two year age gap there is going to be a lot more damage done to the younger, less powerful al less mature kid than there would be if in a collision with the same child and a player of the same age carrying a bit of puppy fat.