InsaneAsylum
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Rugby 2012 - Classic Match Suggestions
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Bokbe4k
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15. Andy Irvine (SCO)? Andre Joubert,Christian Cullen
14. David Campese (AUS)Played in the No. 11 jumper mostly,Philippe Saint-Andre
13. Philippe Sella (FRA)
12. Mike Gibson (IRE)? Guscott,Walter Little
11. Jonah Lomu (NZ)/David Camp.Tough choice
10. Phil Bennet (WAL)? Naas Botha,Grant Fox,Rob Andrew,Thierry Lacroix(all were better)
9. Gareth Edwards (WAL)?Joost v/d Westhuizen
8. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
7. Francois Pienaar (SAF)?played No.6
6. Tom David (WAL)? Francois Pienaar
5. Frik du Preez (SAF)
4. Murray Mexted (NZ)? Never played lock,John Eales,Olivier Roumat
3. Alec Carmichael (SCO)? The Argentinian Prop from 95,cant remember his name
2. Phil Kearns (AUS)? Sean Fitz Patrick
1. Jason Leonard (ENG)? Os du Rand
ranger
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Yeah definitely a few odd decisions in those initial picks. Id go with;
15.George Nepia (NZ)/ JPR Williams (WAL)/ Don Clarke (NZ)
14.Serge Blanco (FRA)/ Rupeni Caucau (FIJ)
13.Mike Gibson (IRE)/ Danie Gerber (SAF)/ Frank Bunce (SAM/NZ)
12.Tim Horan (AUS)
11.Jonah Lomu (NZ)/ David Campese (AUS)
10.Naas Botha (SAF)/ Hugo Porta (ARG)/ Mark Ella (AUS)
9.Gareth Edwards (WAL)
8.Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
7.Micheal Jones(SAM/NZ)
6.Francois Pienaar (SAF)
5.John Eales(AUS)
4.Martin Johnson(ENG)/Victor Matfield(SAF)
3.Carl Hayman (NZ)/ Patrico Noriega (ARG/AUS)
2.Sean Fitzpatrick (NZ)/ Keith Wood (IRE)
1.Os Du Randt(SAF)
Couldnt make my mind up on just 15! there are just too many great players in the history of rugby, maybe north and south all stars would be better. Even though North would cop a hammering every time
Therein lies the glory of video games, the impossible could happen!
you just had to say that you ignorant a$$,dont talk about something you know nothing about,and it seems you know less about rugby,so let me get this right you have the 97 lions but you dont have the 74 lions(considered to be the best lions side of all time)
09 ireland but no 09 springboks
87 france but no 87 allblacks(who won the first rwc)
2002 leiscester tigers but no 2002 crusaders(who went the season undefeated and who would have crushed the tigers)
munster current but no bulls current(who will at their best wipe the floor with munster)
95 nz but no 95 sa (who won 14 games in a row and took the rwc)
no 97 allblacks
no 98 springboks(who equaled nz run of 17 games in a row)(no lithuania who broke that record)
no 76(i think) jaguars ( who became the first and only south american side to ever beat the boks lead by the great hugo porta)
the 07 springboks was a great side but not close to being classic
the only one i do agree with is the 03 english side but i think that was more of a lucky guess.
What you are saying is that sa legends like frik du preez,mannetjies roux,paul roos,erol tobias and doc craven should not be included because of apartheid,well then we should get rid of england as well who made the whole worlds lives miserable for many,many years.
amen brother amen!
Hamez
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This is who I would go, I went players not playing anymore and only ones I ever got to actually see, and I also tried to diversify the nations a bit.
15. Percy Montgomer (SAF)
14. Daisuke Ohata (JAP)
13. Brian Lima (SAM)
12. Tana Umaga (NZ)
11. Joe Roff (AUS)
10. Diego Dominguez (ITA)
9. AgustÃn Pichot (ARG)
8. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
7.Olivier Magne (FRA)
6. Owen Finegan (AUS)
5. John Eales (AUS)
4. Martin Johnson(ENG)
3. Kees Meeuws (NZ)
2. Keith Wood (IRE)
1. Os Du Rant (SAF)
15. Percy Montgomer (SAF)
14. Daisuke Ohata (JAP)
13. Brian Lima (SAM)
12. Tana Umaga (NZ)
11. Joe Roff (AUS)
10. Diego Dominguez (ITA)
9. AgustÃn Pichot (ARG)
8. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)
7.Olivier Magne (FRA)
6. Owen Finegan (AUS)
5. John Eales (AUS)
4. Martin Johnson(ENG)
3. Kees Meeuws (NZ)
2. Keith Wood (IRE)
1. Os Du Rant (SAF)
If you count Mehrtens, Jomu, Umaga, Gregan, Larkham and Latham as players still currently active (which they are technically) then I'd really want (providing the other 3 are in the game -
Sean Fitzpatric, Zinzan Brooke, Ian Jones, Michael Jones, Christian Cullen, Jeff Wilson, Tim Horan, Keith Wood, Os du Randt, Martin Johnson, John Eales. i don't know how'd you'd rate players pre-professionalism. Take Colin Meads for example. Considered by many as the greatest and most influential lock the games ever known. He never jumped in a modern style line out.
Sean Fitzpatric, Zinzan Brooke, Ian Jones, Michael Jones, Christian Cullen, Jeff Wilson, Tim Horan, Keith Wood, Os du Randt, Martin Johnson, John Eales. i don't know how'd you'd rate players pre-professionalism. Take Colin Meads for example. Considered by many as the greatest and most influential lock the games ever known. He never jumped in a modern style line out.
Bokbe4k
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Brian Lima is a good choice if you want someone removed from the field.
Hamez
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Thats another good point.
Its a bit like jonah lomu, when he started out he was a complete giant, but by todays standards he would be considered normal. He was just so big, strong and fast in his day, I think he would have been found out a bit more in todays game tho, while he could be so impressive, it had many huge fault that were taken advantage of see 99 vs france, Its too bad that he got so crook I would have liked to see him play properly in the modern era. He may not have been the greatest winger of all time, but everyone liked to watch him thats for sure.
Bokbe4k
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I forgot about Michael Jones and Ruben Kruger,two of the best
Bokbe4k
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Are you kidding me!
ranger
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Mate, you're getting a bit carried away there.
Being 6"5, 120Kg and running 100m in 10.8 seconds is not now and will never be "normal". If he was playing today, he would still be destroying teams, its just ridiculous to think otherwise.
People go on about Pierre Spies being a physical freak (which he is) but even he is an inch shorter than Lomu and a whole 10kg lighter. Lomu also had a bit of a step aswell.
Also 99 against France? are you talking about the semifinal where Jonahs brace of tries kept NZ in the game? Look up the highlight reels he was NZs best player by a mile.
The scary thing is that he was always sick, even in '95, he said that all hes joints and muscles always ached, he never felt like he could run as fast as he could. He just was used to feeling like that though and thought it was normal, it wasn't until he had his kidney transplant that he actually realized what being healthy felt like.
Hamez
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There are that many wingers that are just as big if not bigger these days. . Andreis bekker can run the 100m in something 10 seconds. he was a giant back in the day 1.94 (6ft 4) and 120kg as winger was unheard of, but theres plenty that big these days. A few that come to mind are Nemani Nadolo, Radike Samo, Billy Ratu, Matt Banahan, Sireli Naqelevuki, Wendell Sailor, Pierre Spies was a winger. Genrally most backs are bigger now than they were back in 95 and even 99. Most are around 1.9m and 100kg. So I dont think he would stand out as much as he did when he first started.
I watched the game back in the day, Bernat-Salles just ran loops around him and they just kept turning the big man around. He couldn't catch very well and wasn't a very good open field tackler. He never scored against the springboks. I reckon if he started out at 19 these days he would have been a number 8. He is one of the greatest world cup players of all time and very exciting to watch, but I think there has been alot better wingers than Jonah
Andres Bekker, 10 seconds? Have you seen him run? No way can he do it in 10 seconds. 127kg at 6f 4 is still big today, are you crazy? Locks who are 6'8/6'10 struggle to hit that, you have no idea how crucial that extra inch or two is for your weight.
Wendell Sailor - 6'3 106kg
Sireli Naqelevuki - 6'3 118kg
Matt Banahan - 6'7 114kg
Radike Samo - 6'5 111kg
Nemani Nadolo - 6'5 123kg
Pierre Spies - 6'4 111kg
Jonah Lomu - 6'4 127kg
His 120kg now is after a kidney transplant, years out of rugby, so you would expect him to lose weight, but at his peek he was 126-128kg, which I put 127 down as an average. Still bigger than all the others you mentioned and has the best sprint time, 10.8 that I could find anyway, which means if you can't find it, it ain't that quick.
Wendell Sailor - 6'3 106kg
Sireli Naqelevuki - 6'3 118kg
Matt Banahan - 6'7 114kg
Radike Samo - 6'5 111kg
Nemani Nadolo - 6'5 123kg
Pierre Spies - 6'4 111kg
Jonah Lomu - 6'4 127kg
His 120kg now is after a kidney transplant, years out of rugby, so you would expect him to lose weight, but at his peek he was 126-128kg, which I put 127 down as an average. Still bigger than all the others you mentioned and has the best sprint time, 10.8 that I could find anyway, which means if you can't find it, it ain't that quick.
While Matt Banahan is tall, 114kg is nothing for his height, seriously. Have you seen the size of his legs? Like little girls arms, he is nothing compared to everyone else. Also Bekker is 6'10 and 120/123kg, two different sources are giving different weights.
My brother who is 6'6, never played rugby to a high level is 112kg in muscle, so being a pro rugby player at 6'7 and 114kg is tiny.
My brother who is 6'6, never played rugby to a high level is 112kg in muscle, so being a pro rugby player at 6'7 and 114kg is tiny.
ranger
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None of the guys you mentioned bar Spies are as quick as Lomu was, Spies is much smaller and even then he is the best in the world right now for his position. The other guys on that list couldn't dream of being anywhere near that quick. Radike Samo? Naqelevuki? Sailor? you dont seem to understand just how fast 10.8 seconds is.
Andreis Bekker around 10 seconds!? WTF? he would be lucky to clock 13! honestly what the hell, do you have any concept of how fast that is? there would only be a handfull of players in world rugby that run sub 11 seconds. Do you realise that if you run around 10.3 you would make the USA 100 METRE SPRINT TEAM.
Lomu is one of a select few players in the history of sports to have that mix of pace size and power, the only other i can think of off the top of my head is Bo Jackson from the NFL. To say he wouldn't stand out today is just stupidity, Humans havn't evolved to the level where guys with lomus stats are normal in the last 10 years.
Also, Lomus trys kept NZ in the hunt against France, he could tackle but his defencive positioning was off il admit.
The old "He never scored against SA" thing really infuriates me too. He may not have scored personally, but any time he even looked like he was going to get the ball he was swarmed by at least 3 South africans. This left massive holes and overlaps, while he never scored against them directly, his presence lead to a ton of tries for his team mates. Cullen, Wilson and Umaga were all amazing broken field runners, but they all owe Jonah half their trys for drawing in so many players and creating that broken field.
Hamez
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I am sure you will agree there is a huge difference between a 100m sprinter and running on a rugby field. its very different conditions. He was fast, he was powerful never said he wasnt, he was just so different at the time he stood out so much, I dont think he would have had such an impact now as he did back then. He was a good front on tackler no doubt about that, but he was stood up many times, he did have very poor defensive positioning, coulldnt kick very well, didnt have the best hands in the world either. I dont like it but due to all the video analysis they do these days his faults would have been more pronounced cause teams would have targeted him completely different to what they did in the late 90's.
As i have said before he was exciting to watch, and a good player, a great world cup player. but overall he was a good winger, not one I would classify as one of the all time greats though.
As i have said before he was exciting to watch, and a good player, a great world cup player. but overall he was a good winger, not one I would classify as one of the all time greats though.
I agree with you, but I also think you are talking a lot of crap. Jonah Lomu had a massive influence over rugby, more than you could possibly imagine. His skills were a bit poor, but in the 90's and the beginning of the pro era, you didn't need those skills unless you had a 9 or 10 on your back. He was the top player of his day. Now for his influence, do you really want to know?
Why do you think we have a sudden boom in player size? Why do you think there was no one bigger in the past? Maybe a few props were bigger, but they are props and can't run as fast. This guy, was something else. Strength has always been the key to rugby, but nobody could match Lomus strength, I'm sure you don't need a lesson of Einsteins e=mc2, but a player of about 300kg running at 15 seconds per 100m would have the same power as Lomu at 127kg in 10 seconds. Big, fast players, that is what you need, and then suddenly players want to have huge muscles, teams start bringing in nutritionist to maximize player strength, size and speed. Now we have a lot of big guys, all thanks to Lomu, because he exposed what could be done when a bigger faster guy meets an average fast guy (Josh Lewsey, man I could watch that clip for ages). Because he exposed it, everyone tries to replicate it and now you can't be a pro player without being 90kg+, you have the few exceptions like Gio Aplon and halfbacks, but even most halfbacks today are 95kg+.
Lomu changed rugby. Made it better? Maybe. But definitely changed it.
Why do you think we have a sudden boom in player size? Why do you think there was no one bigger in the past? Maybe a few props were bigger, but they are props and can't run as fast. This guy, was something else. Strength has always been the key to rugby, but nobody could match Lomus strength, I'm sure you don't need a lesson of Einsteins e=mc2, but a player of about 300kg running at 15 seconds per 100m would have the same power as Lomu at 127kg in 10 seconds. Big, fast players, that is what you need, and then suddenly players want to have huge muscles, teams start bringing in nutritionist to maximize player strength, size and speed. Now we have a lot of big guys, all thanks to Lomu, because he exposed what could be done when a bigger faster guy meets an average fast guy (Josh Lewsey, man I could watch that clip for ages). Because he exposed it, everyone tries to replicate it and now you can't be a pro player without being 90kg+, you have the few exceptions like Gio Aplon and halfbacks, but even most halfbacks today are 95kg+.
Lomu changed rugby. Made it better? Maybe. But definitely changed it.
ranger
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I dont see what relevance the sprinter comment has.. The reason i bought it up is because you don't seem to understand just how fast 10.8 is. Noone on that list you provided runs anywhere near that fast. There would only be 10-15 players in world rugby right now that would clock 10.8 or under and none of those players would be anywhere near as powerfull. Spies is the closest and hes at least 10kg lighter.
I just get the feeling that the magnitude of the guy is lost on you. Lomu was a genetic freak, those kind of people only come around once every couple of decades. He would still be very different to everyone else if he played now.
Just look at Manu Vatuvei, everyone in the NRL talks about how much of a physical specimen he is. His nickname is the beast, Brent Tate and others have stated that hes the hardest bloke to tackle in Rugby League. Hes 3 inches shorter than Lomu, 13kg lighter, and runs 100m .1 of a second slower. He has worse hands then Lomu ever did and hes unstoppable in League.
You can make assumptions that he wouldn't have had the same effect today, but really those are just that. Assumptions, Guesses.
There has been noone else with Lomu's stats since he left the game, you have no way of knowing how effective he would be or anyone to compare him to.
He has to be an all time great because he turned rugby on its head. In his day, against the people he played against he was unstoppable (You could stop him, but as the Saffas found out you would just leave gaping holes elsewhere) anytime he played anyone, their defensive gameplan hinged around stopping him as an individual. To say a guy like that is not an alltime great is ridiculous.
Quadecooper#1
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the game that by many has been rated as the greatest game ever: the 2000 Bledisloe cup game between the Wallabies and the All Blacks at sydney. the all blacks are leading 24 nill after 11 minutes in front of 110 000 people. the Wallabies regroup and level up 24 all at half time. the Wallabies look to have won it when the great Jonah Lomu scores on full time to win it for the all blacks 39-35.
i would also like the bledisloe cup game in 98 in christchurch when John Eales has the opportunity to kick the winning penalty after full time to win the cup. even just that last kick would be great.
controversial games would be good too such as the 2007 WC semi between all blacks and france.
cheers
i would also like the bledisloe cup game in 98 in christchurch when John Eales has the opportunity to kick the winning penalty after full time to win the cup. even just that last kick would be great.
controversial games would be good too such as the 2007 WC semi between all blacks and france.
cheers
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