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Riki Flutey

Heaslip.

British, Irish, Amrican, Munster, Kenyan (Shaw), Israeli, Australian and Kiwi Lions tour.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 22 2009, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Rugby players have to eat and have to provide for their families. They don't have long and a career ending injury these days could be only one match away. You saw it with Danny Cipriani and his horrifying ankle injury. There was a chance he could end up having his ankle amputated at the age of 22.

Hypocrisy. Give Flutey a break.[/b]
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I'm all for rugby players moving to other clubs in search of greener financial grass - same as any other profession - as you rightly point out their professional career is perilously short and could end at any time. What i'm not for is this moving around affecting their nationality.

If players are allowed to "seek better opportunities" in terms of their nationality, where does it end? If home nations players are not of international standard in their own country, and theres a big international paycheque at the end of a three year stay in a foreign land, whats stopping them from just heading off into the new-nationality sunset?

How many O'Reillys playing for Japan is too many?
 
This is the thing. There is a huge cultural gap between the old world who believe in blood connections and the new world who believe in making your way and being allowed a crack if you've earnt the right to do so.

I point again to the example of the United States. Half of their players under our criteria wouldn't be seen as "American" but in their society, their ideals of being able to go a country and not be discriminated against on the basis of where you've come from but be given the opportunity to work and earn the right to citizenship mean that Americans see the likes of Chris Wyles and Takudzwa Ngwenya not as Brits and Zimbabweans who merely "qualify on residency grounds" but as 110% American! Hand on heart, ask a yank like O'Rothlain here and he'd tell you straight: country of origin be dammed! Give the guy a crack.
 
Making your way in the world with the gifts youve been given is one thing, nationalities being sold to the highest bidder is something else. I love rugby and as much as anything I love the honour, pride and sportsmanship that the game has in abundance which is so sorely lacking in other sports, football being the most obvious example.

I see this residency thing as nothing other than a factor contributing to the gradual erosion of those values. Playing for your country should be something a player would give their left arm to do, not something they do for a paycheque.
 
Nothing is being sold to the highest bidder. No Union is in a bidding war for guys like Flutey and Vainikolo.

Again, I've gotta say there is nothing, not one thing that makes Riki Flutey or Lesley Vainikolo different from Nathan Hines, Dan Parks, Brent Cockbain, Mike Catt, Perry Freshwater, MARTIN JOHNSON and many others who are born overseas or have overseas parents. Nothing. Not one thing. Nadda. Nowt. Bugger all.

If he goes to a club that pays him loads but puts it on the line and gives 120% for his country (which is England) then big deal. Flutey is English and as English as I am.
 
except for the fact that those other players have blood links to the countries in question so yeah there is a difference.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
except for the fact that those other players have blood links to the countries in question so yeah there is a difference.[/b]
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No there isn't because at the end of the day we're going back to this belief that blood links trump all and the belief that others in America and elsewhere in the world have that blood links are a total crock of sh*t.

EDIT: Its a cop out, its patronising and incredibly elitist and snobbish to the likes of America and Canada and being a citizen of one of the most mongrol and mixed nations in Europe I honestly don't believe it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 22 2009, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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except for the fact that those other players have blood links to the countries in question so yeah there is a difference.[/b]
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No there isn't because at the end of the day we're going back to this belief that blood links trump all and the belief that others in America and elsewhere in the world have that blood links are a total crock of sh*t.

EDIT: Its a cop out, its patronising and incredibly elitist and snobbish to the likes of America and Canada and being a citizen of one of the most mongrol and mixed nations in Europe I honestly don't believe it.
[/b][/quote]

good for you, now back in your corner!
 
Oh yeah, very nice. Tell you what, why not tell that to half of USA Rugby and see what reaction you get. I'll foot the medical bill for you.
 
No, I'm just stating how elitist and patronising you all sound, because basically you're all saying that if you're not playing for the country where you come from or if you haven't got parents who come from the country you play for then you're just a money grubbing mercenary. You're basically belittling teams like USA Rugby who have a fair few Americans who wouldn't be Americans under these utterly petty "rules" and basically saying "well, you did well in RWC 2007 America, pity you can't produce your own team without importing! HAW!"

This whole argument is completely absurd. We're in the 21st century. I'm proud to be an Englishman but I'm also proud to have Riki Flutey, an Englishman of New Zealand heritage, playing for England.
 
I think it's more a case of looking at an established rugby nation like England, in this case, and saying surely you don't need to be relying on imports to make up your national side. Obviously all NH countries have a history of exploiting this rule and the grand parents rule.

It's not an issue with developing countries using this rule to their advantage and I don't recall anyone here raising that as an issue, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
It doesn't matter if people haven't explicitly said that. You can't have one rule for one nation and one rule for another. You can't think "well, they're American so they need all those imports" for one side and then think "Ugh! Damn English! Why are they importing?!" Because firstly, that is utterly hypocritical, secondly very patronising towards those who do emigrate and end up playing for their adopted nation and thirdly, extremely patronising towards the nations who take them and field them in matches.

I raised this whole point right from the beginning as well as pointing out why people haven't moaned about Brent Cockbain or Dan Parks or other..let me be brutally up front here..white foreigners.

This whole topic is way too dodgy mate, I'm bailing before I say something I might regret...
 

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