P
Prestwick
Guest
*sees Gimley & GingaG square off*
CRIPPLE FIGHT!
CRIPPLE FIGHT!
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G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 31 2009, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
in which case why are there no Asians playing for England?
What is important is that whoever does get picked to represent an international side can feel pride in doing so.
Fact is that England, and to a lesser extent the other UK countries, have a huge reach across the globe, thanks to history. We may not still be the centre of an Empire, but we are the 'mother country' for a lot of the commonwealth, especially the white members who can trace their ancestry back to the UK. This is why we have so many foreign links... not just in rugby; Graeme Hick, Mike Catt, Kevin Peitersen, Matt Stevens, Dylan Hartley, Andrew Strauss, Geraint Jones and so on are all recent England representatives with links elsewhere. We have a massive pull on immigrants from the Commonwealth, and there are 100s of 1000s of Australians, Kiwis, SAs, Indians etc. etc. in the UK as a result. We always have, and always will for the forseeable future, have players represent us who have come from elsewhere. France is the same. Australia and NZ are like that with the Pacific nations. That is what the modern English are, and it is reflected in wider society and not just the sports teams.
[/b][/quote]
The underwood brothers were malaysian thats asian
Geraint Jones plays for the ENGLAND AND WALES team, we are united in Cricket
Your reasoning sounds far more like an excuse for pillaging talent from smaller nations than giving an opportunity to select a side of English men
is this because there are so many foreigners playing in England now that you relate to kiwis south africans and south sea islanders than you do to English players ?
I do not think that players like Flutey, Vainkoali, Stevens, Hartley, and so on should play for England. Under the current rules in rugby preset by the IRB, England cheat the system to find better players than they have at their dissposal.
This should be stopped.
It is a mockery of international sport watching Italy versus Japan where over half the sides are imported rugby players.
Have these players got no pride in their origins....???
[/b][/quote]
Well I live in a city where 30% of people were born outside the UK and 42% are in an ethnic minority. So yeah I am used to having people of all types around me.
And it's hardly cheating the system. Flutey's switch has nothing to do with the RFU; Stevens has an English father; Hartley moved to England aged 16 and hence had most of his rugby education here plus 7 years residency; Vainikolo lived in England for 6 years and his children have English nationality, so he's like any other 1st generation immigrant.
And about pride... there are huge numbers of people who came to Britain from elsewhere and are proud to be British because it is a country that accepted them. It's not for you to decide which place they should be proud to be from.
[/b][/quote]
shane howarth and colin charvis had grannies and passports and the such...
mate it is as much a pillage as the ABs do on the islanders... hense i think the IRB should change the rules to parental, and scrap the residency
why cant viankioaloa and flutey play for there own countries...
i have a mate who scored two tries at center for england school boys, he called his kiwi father to tell him and his dad didnt comment, when chris asked what his fathers problem was he said "well son it aint a silver fern is it... and your mum agrees too!!!"
case in point, my kids live in wales but have a kiwi mother and i am a Welshman with an irish mother.
if my boys and girl grow up thinking they should play for anyone other than ales i would feel let down. especially if like flutey or vinakilo they are doing it as mercinarys...!
in which case why are there no Asians playing for England?
What is important is that whoever does get picked to represent an international side can feel pride in doing so.
Fact is that England, and to a lesser extent the other UK countries, have a huge reach across the globe, thanks to history. We may not still be the centre of an Empire, but we are the 'mother country' for a lot of the commonwealth, especially the white members who can trace their ancestry back to the UK. This is why we have so many foreign links... not just in rugby; Graeme Hick, Mike Catt, Kevin Peitersen, Matt Stevens, Dylan Hartley, Andrew Strauss, Geraint Jones and so on are all recent England representatives with links elsewhere. We have a massive pull on immigrants from the Commonwealth, and there are 100s of 1000s of Australians, Kiwis, SAs, Indians etc. etc. in the UK as a result. We always have, and always will for the forseeable future, have players represent us who have come from elsewhere. France is the same. Australia and NZ are like that with the Pacific nations. That is what the modern English are, and it is reflected in wider society and not just the sports teams.
[/b][/quote]
The underwood brothers were malaysian thats asian
Geraint Jones plays for the ENGLAND AND WALES team, we are united in Cricket
Your reasoning sounds far more like an excuse for pillaging talent from smaller nations than giving an opportunity to select a side of English men
is this because there are so many foreigners playing in England now that you relate to kiwis south africans and south sea islanders than you do to English players ?
I do not think that players like Flutey, Vainkoali, Stevens, Hartley, and so on should play for England. Under the current rules in rugby preset by the IRB, England cheat the system to find better players than they have at their dissposal.
This should be stopped.
It is a mockery of international sport watching Italy versus Japan where over half the sides are imported rugby players.
Have these players got no pride in their origins....???
[/b][/quote]
Well I live in a city where 30% of people were born outside the UK and 42% are in an ethnic minority. So yeah I am used to having people of all types around me.
And it's hardly cheating the system. Flutey's switch has nothing to do with the RFU; Stevens has an English father; Hartley moved to England aged 16 and hence had most of his rugby education here plus 7 years residency; Vainikolo lived in England for 6 years and his children have English nationality, so he's like any other 1st generation immigrant.
And about pride... there are huge numbers of people who came to Britain from elsewhere and are proud to be British because it is a country that accepted them. It's not for you to decide which place they should be proud to be from.
[/b][/quote]
shane howarth and colin charvis had grannies and passports and the such...
mate it is as much a pillage as the ABs do on the islanders... hense i think the IRB should change the rules to parental, and scrap the residency
why cant viankioaloa and flutey play for there own countries...
i have a mate who scored two tries at center for england school boys, he called his kiwi father to tell him and his dad didnt comment, when chris asked what his fathers problem was he said "well son it aint a silver fern is it... and your mum agrees too!!!"
case in point, my kids live in wales but have a kiwi mother and i am a Welshman with an irish mother.
if my boys and girl grow up thinking they should play for anyone other than ales i would feel let down. especially if like flutey or vinakilo they are doing it as mercinarys...!
F
feicarsinn
Guest
really? if your children grew up to play international rugby for say ireland yo would be disappointed. i dont have kids but if i ever do and one of the them grows up to play for any team id be proud
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Apr 1 2009, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
yes... i just said that above your post
F
feicarsinn
Guest
yup i can see it now "son, you made it all the way. won a 6 nations, heineken cup and a world cup. you bring shame on me for not playing for wales" what happens if he wants to play for NZ? it's not really about you, who your child decides to play for is it?
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Apr 1 2009, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
but i would rather see him play for wales than sell his talents to someone else
nope...! it is his choice. if i sent him to school in england he could play for them too.
but i would rather see him play for wales than sell his talents to someone else
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 1 2009, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
in which case why are there no Asians playing for England?
What is important is that whoever does get picked to represent an international side can feel pride in doing so.
Fact is that England, and to a lesser extent the other UK countries, have a huge reach across the globe, thanks to history. We may not still be the centre of an Empire, but we are the 'mother country' for a lot of the commonwealth, especially the white members who can trace their ancestry back to the UK. This is why we have so many foreign links... not just in rugby; Graeme Hick, Mike Catt, Kevin Peitersen, Matt Stevens, Dylan Hartley, Andrew Strauss, Geraint Jones and so on are all recent England representatives with links elsewhere. We have a massive pull on immigrants from the Commonwealth, and there are 100s of 1000s of Australians, Kiwis, SAs, Indians etc. etc. in the UK as a result. We always have, and always will for the forseeable future, have players represent us who have come from elsewhere. France is the same. Australia and NZ are like that with the Pacific nations. That is what the modern English are, and it is reflected in wider society and not just the sports teams.
[/b][/quote]
The underwood brothers were malaysian thats asian
Geraint Jones plays for the ENGLAND AND WALES team, we are united in Cricket
Your reasoning sounds far more like an excuse for pillaging talent from smaller nations than giving an opportunity to select a side of English men
is this because there are so many foreigners playing in England now that you relate to kiwis south africans and south sea islanders than you do to English players ?
I do not think that players like Flutey, Vainkoali, Stevens, Hartley, and so on should play for England. Under the current rules in rugby preset by the IRB, England cheat the system to find better players than they have at their dissposal.
This should be stopped.
It is a mockery of international sport watching Italy versus Japan where over half the sides are imported rugby players.
Have these players got no pride in their origins....???
[/b][/quote]
Well I live in a city where 30% of people were born outside the UK and 42% are in an ethnic minority. So yeah I am used to having people of all types around me.
And it's hardly cheating the system. Flutey's switch has nothing to do with the RFU; Stevens has an English father; Hartley moved to England aged 16 and hence had most of his rugby education here plus 7 years residency; Vainikolo lived in England for 6 years and his children have English nationality, so he's like any other 1st generation immigrant.
And about pride... there are huge numbers of people who came to Britain from elsewhere and are proud to be British because it is a country that accepted them. It's not for you to decide which place they should be proud to be from.
[/b][/quote]
shane howarth and colin charvis had grannies and passports and the such...
mate it is as much a pillage as the ABs do on the islanders... hense i think the IRB should change the rules to parental, and scrap the residency
why cant viankioaloa and flutey play for there own countries...
i have a mate who scored two tries at center for england school boys, he called his kiwi father to tell him and his dad didnt comment, when chris asked what his fathers problem was he said "well son it aint a silver fern is it... and your mum agrees too!!!"
case in point, my kids live in wales but have a kiwi mother and i am a Welshman with an irish mother.
if my boys and girl grow up thinking they should play for anyone other than ales i would feel let down. especially if like flutey or vinakilo they are doing it as mercinarys...!
[/b][/quote]
Fine, I was chatting with the parent of one of the kids at the school I taught at. This guy was an Indian from Bombay, his son was born in India and brought up in England for most of his life. He said he was pround that his son was such a big England cricket fan.
We can all have these little examples, fact is it is really up to the individual who they want to play for and where they feel they're from. It's not for you to tell Vainikolo, who is a Tongan who spent most of his life in NZ and recently in England, where he's from. If he intends to see out the rest of his days in England then, as far as I'm concerned, he's as English as I am.
And I already said the granny rule was stupid.
in which case why are there no Asians playing for England?
What is important is that whoever does get picked to represent an international side can feel pride in doing so.
Fact is that England, and to a lesser extent the other UK countries, have a huge reach across the globe, thanks to history. We may not still be the centre of an Empire, but we are the 'mother country' for a lot of the commonwealth, especially the white members who can trace their ancestry back to the UK. This is why we have so many foreign links... not just in rugby; Graeme Hick, Mike Catt, Kevin Peitersen, Matt Stevens, Dylan Hartley, Andrew Strauss, Geraint Jones and so on are all recent England representatives with links elsewhere. We have a massive pull on immigrants from the Commonwealth, and there are 100s of 1000s of Australians, Kiwis, SAs, Indians etc. etc. in the UK as a result. We always have, and always will for the forseeable future, have players represent us who have come from elsewhere. France is the same. Australia and NZ are like that with the Pacific nations. That is what the modern English are, and it is reflected in wider society and not just the sports teams.
[/b][/quote]
The underwood brothers were malaysian thats asian
Geraint Jones plays for the ENGLAND AND WALES team, we are united in Cricket
Your reasoning sounds far more like an excuse for pillaging talent from smaller nations than giving an opportunity to select a side of English men
is this because there are so many foreigners playing in England now that you relate to kiwis south africans and south sea islanders than you do to English players ?
I do not think that players like Flutey, Vainkoali, Stevens, Hartley, and so on should play for England. Under the current rules in rugby preset by the IRB, England cheat the system to find better players than they have at their dissposal.
This should be stopped.
It is a mockery of international sport watching Italy versus Japan where over half the sides are imported rugby players.
Have these players got no pride in their origins....???
[/b][/quote]
Well I live in a city where 30% of people were born outside the UK and 42% are in an ethnic minority. So yeah I am used to having people of all types around me.
And it's hardly cheating the system. Flutey's switch has nothing to do with the RFU; Stevens has an English father; Hartley moved to England aged 16 and hence had most of his rugby education here plus 7 years residency; Vainikolo lived in England for 6 years and his children have English nationality, so he's like any other 1st generation immigrant.
And about pride... there are huge numbers of people who came to Britain from elsewhere and are proud to be British because it is a country that accepted them. It's not for you to decide which place they should be proud to be from.
[/b][/quote]
shane howarth and colin charvis had grannies and passports and the such...
mate it is as much a pillage as the ABs do on the islanders... hense i think the IRB should change the rules to parental, and scrap the residency
why cant viankioaloa and flutey play for there own countries...
i have a mate who scored two tries at center for england school boys, he called his kiwi father to tell him and his dad didnt comment, when chris asked what his fathers problem was he said "well son it aint a silver fern is it... and your mum agrees too!!!"
case in point, my kids live in wales but have a kiwi mother and i am a Welshman with an irish mother.
if my boys and girl grow up thinking they should play for anyone other than ales i would feel let down. especially if like flutey or vinakilo they are doing it as mercinarys...!
[/b][/quote]
Fine, I was chatting with the parent of one of the kids at the school I taught at. This guy was an Indian from Bombay, his son was born in India and brought up in England for most of his life. He said he was pround that his son was such a big England cricket fan.
We can all have these little examples, fact is it is really up to the individual who they want to play for and where they feel they're from. It's not for you to tell Vainikolo, who is a Tongan who spent most of his life in NZ and recently in England, where he's from. If he intends to see out the rest of his days in England then, as far as I'm concerned, he's as English as I am.
And I already said the granny rule was stupid.
D
dullonien
Guest
Well siad genius.
Vinikolo's situation is interesting, as he obviously doesn't feel huge affiliation (for want of a better word) to any country. He was born in Tonga, but moved to NZ at a young age, represented NZ in rugby league then moved to England in his mid twenties (still young in anything other than sport) and has been here for a few years. He now feels that he should represent England in rugby union, whether this is an educated choice, i.e. he thinks he has a better chance to play for England than NZ I don't know.
I'm not sure if I like that very much! If someones represented a country in sport, that should tie him/her to that country for all sport, they shouldn't be allowed to switch.
Vinikolo's situation is interesting, as he obviously doesn't feel huge affiliation (for want of a better word) to any country. He was born in Tonga, but moved to NZ at a young age, represented NZ in rugby league then moved to England in his mid twenties (still young in anything other than sport) and has been here for a few years. He now feels that he should represent England in rugby union, whether this is an educated choice, i.e. he thinks he has a better chance to play for England than NZ I don't know.
I'm not sure if I like that very much! If someones represented a country in sport, that should tie him/her to that country for all sport, they shouldn't be allowed to switch.
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Apr 1 2009, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I bet any money you want, if you were watching the ABs or Tonga play England with Flutey and Vinikoliali and there mates they would not be cheering with the Guys in White...!
I bet any money you want, if you were watching the ABs or Tonga play England with Flutey and Vinikoliali and there mates they would not be cheering with the Guys in White...!
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Apr 1 2009, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
They tried to call him up for the Tonga RWC squad and he said no, he wants to play for England.
And I'm pretty sure they would cheer England. Charvis cheers for Wales, and as one wag put it, "he's a chap from birmingham trying to look like a fijian"
They tried to call him up for the Tonga RWC squad and he said no, he wants to play for England.
And I'm pretty sure they would cheer England. Charvis cheers for Wales, and as one wag put it, "he's a chap from birmingham trying to look like a fijian"
D
danny
Guest
Ironic how he really wants to play for England yet all the England fans wish he was playing for Tonga.
Personally Vainikolo and Fluety are prime examples of players who despite obviously not coming from the country they represent are as committed as any natural born players.
Personally Vainikolo and Fluety are prime examples of players who despite obviously not coming from the country they represent are as committed as any natural born players.
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Apr 2 2009, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 1 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
[/b][/quote]
Because the Pacific Islanders is an equivalent to the Lions. The Maoris are a side on a level with England Saxons.
And as I said before, no one seems to mind that Sivivatu and Lauaki both played in a full international for the Pacific Islanders, against New Zealand.
Incidentally, Flutey didn't play for the Maori when they played the Lions. He was a sub for Wellington when they played the Lions.
And don't try to make a point about English selection policy... there's one Maori ever played for England it's hardly an epidemic.
And where did anyone mention a quote from Vainikolo? Go back to 606 you're being a WUM.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
[/b][/quote]
Because the Pacific Islanders is an equivalent to the Lions. The Maoris are a side on a level with England Saxons.
And as I said before, no one seems to mind that Sivivatu and Lauaki both played in a full international for the Pacific Islanders, against New Zealand.
Incidentally, Flutey didn't play for the Maori when they played the Lions. He was a sub for Wellington when they played the Lions.
And don't try to make a point about English selection policy... there's one Maori ever played for England it's hardly an epidemic.
And where did anyone mention a quote from Vainikolo? Go back to 606 you're being a WUM.
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Apr 2 2009, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
[/b][/quote]
Because the Pacific Islanders is an equivalent to the Lions. The Maoris are a side on a level with England Saxons.
And as I said before, no one seems to mind that Sivivatu and Lauaki both played in a full international for the Pacific Islanders, against New Zealand.
Incidentally, Flutey didn't play for the Maori when they played the Lions. He was a sub for Wellington when they played the Lions.
And don't try to make a point about English selection policy... there's one Maori ever played for England it's hardly an epidemic.
And where did anyone mention a quote from Vainikolo? Go back to 606 you're being a WUM.
[/b][/quote]
"They tried to call him up for the Tonga RWC squad and he said no, he wants to play for England."
you wrote it... where is your proof ???
you are completely correct although he played for the NZ MAori he played against the Lions for the Hurricanes, my sincerest apologies for posting something that was misleading.
The England Saxons mean that a player can not play for another country, thats why england picked Gerharty so that he wouldn't go to Ireland
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Yeah thats it....! because the England and Gloucester wages are on a financial par with Tonga ! ! !
Just because you write it does not make it true, it makes what you wrote sound rather humourous...!
Please post a link to this quote by Vainkoala...? no link didn't happen.
Flutey has played and beaten the Lions for an Internationally respected and recognized team, the New Zealand Maoris.
They play against National sides in the Churchill Cup.
I don't know why the Maoris do not count as international NZ qualification as they can regularly be used as a feeder team? I would love to know the IRB stance on not recognizing the Maoris, but recognizing the Pacific Islanders ?
Maybe because the way english selection policy is going there will be an England Maoris as well as a New Zealand one.
[/b][/quote]
Because the Pacific Islanders is an equivalent to the Lions. The Maoris are a side on a level with England Saxons.
And as I said before, no one seems to mind that Sivivatu and Lauaki both played in a full international for the Pacific Islanders, against New Zealand.
Incidentally, Flutey didn't play for the Maori when they played the Lions. He was a sub for Wellington when they played the Lions.
And don't try to make a point about English selection policy... there's one Maori ever played for England it's hardly an epidemic.
And where did anyone mention a quote from Vainikolo? Go back to 606 you're being a WUM.
[/b][/quote]
"They tried to call him up for the Tonga RWC squad and he said no, he wants to play for England."
you wrote it... where is your proof ???
you are completely correct although he played for the NZ MAori he played against the Lions for the Hurricanes, my sincerest apologies for posting something that was misleading.
The England Saxons mean that a player can not play for another country, thats why england picked Gerharty so that he wouldn't go to Ireland
A
An Tarbh
Guest
so because he didn't provide a link it couldn't possibly be true, gotta love that logic.
G
GimleyUK
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 2 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
stato...!
you can talk
stato...!
A
An Tarbh
Guest
ooh a comeback of the highest quality, you get a gold star 
D
dundeesmiffy
Guest
I still don't think Flutey should go, if he does I'll be upset about it but I'll deal with it. I do not think it should be though.
G
GimleyUK
Guest
I'd find it hard to understand the non financial side of Flutey's commitment, objectively, from a player that has previously tried to beat the Lions with his home team, wanting to be in the Lions and win.
Obviously as a Kiwi, playing against non Kiwis, he has as little empathy with the Boks as any other player outside of SA. I am sure he would be as determined to win the series as the rest of the selected squad. Flutey certainly seems to want to win for England.
Personally I can not understand where he would find the passion to be a Lion though ? THe Passion that other players who grew up dreaming of being in the Lions squad naturally have in abundance, while he was most likely dreaming of becoming an All Black as a kid.
I also rate a few other players higher than Flutey, even though he is currently on form. remember though form dwindles, talent remains.
My personal rating of the British number 12 list would be something like this going on what i have watched in British club and International rugby over the last few years...!
Gavin Henson
Gavin Evans (Llanelli soon to be Cardiff Blues, recently returned to fitness after injury and looks fantastic with a new kicking game added to his already magnificent abilities)
Gordon D'Arcy
Andrew Bishop
Luke Fitzgerald
Ricky Flutey
I prefer Flutey to Jamie Roberts though. I regard Roberts very highly as a player but one dimensional at 12, better to use Roberts at 13 or 15, a position where you can use his clever angles and counter attacking game that you don't see when he plays 12. To me Roberts is a wide player and i can understand why Warren Gatland was so excited to try a Henson Roberts Combo for Wales, possibly needs more time.
You have to remember that Jamie Roberts looked to be the Welsh revelation at 15 for the Welsh U20s two years ago, luckily for Wales, unluckily for Roberts as a 15, lee Byrne found the form of his career, and Warren Gatland played roberts at 12 during the WElsh tour of SA last summer.
Obviously as a Kiwi, playing against non Kiwis, he has as little empathy with the Boks as any other player outside of SA. I am sure he would be as determined to win the series as the rest of the selected squad. Flutey certainly seems to want to win for England.
Personally I can not understand where he would find the passion to be a Lion though ? THe Passion that other players who grew up dreaming of being in the Lions squad naturally have in abundance, while he was most likely dreaming of becoming an All Black as a kid.
I also rate a few other players higher than Flutey, even though he is currently on form. remember though form dwindles, talent remains.
My personal rating of the British number 12 list would be something like this going on what i have watched in British club and International rugby over the last few years...!
Gavin Henson
Gavin Evans (Llanelli soon to be Cardiff Blues, recently returned to fitness after injury and looks fantastic with a new kicking game added to his already magnificent abilities)
Gordon D'Arcy
Andrew Bishop
Luke Fitzgerald
Ricky Flutey
I prefer Flutey to Jamie Roberts though. I regard Roberts very highly as a player but one dimensional at 12, better to use Roberts at 13 or 15, a position where you can use his clever angles and counter attacking game that you don't see when he plays 12. To me Roberts is a wide player and i can understand why Warren Gatland was so excited to try a Henson Roberts Combo for Wales, possibly needs more time.
You have to remember that Jamie Roberts looked to be the Welsh revelation at 15 for the Welsh U20s two years ago, luckily for Wales, unluckily for Roberts as a 15, lee Byrne found the form of his career, and Warren Gatland played roberts at 12 during the WElsh tour of SA last summer.
D
dundeesmiffy
Guest
I think Roberts operates at 12 and 13 equally as well. It just depends on what team he's playing...if they like to send big runners up the 12/12 channel it's good to have him there because he can gives as good as he gets but he also works well at 13. I'd say, if I was made to choose I'd say I prefer him at 12...but I have just as much time for him as a 13 too.
