Religion

[O'Rothlain]

I thought I'd get out of the "People who **** me off" thread and bring this to a proper "Holy" sanctuary of intelectual relgious consciousness...or a place where we can all yell about why everyone else is going to burn in the fires of hell for eternity being pricked up the bum by red guys with horns.

Where were we? I'll post my last religious post from the above mentioned thread of communication:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

I thought light was the first thing created?

Implying a solar cycle would probably be one of the first things experienced on Earth.

I'm sorry, I hate to be a cynical ******* all the time, but saying that God is God so he can have whatever length days he wants just strikes me as grasping at straws.[/b]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the use of the term "Day" is an analogical expression for the cycles of creation. Remember, we are translating ancient jewish text and trying to deal with expressing a very ancient idea that comes from an Oral tradition somewhere around 8,000 years old.

Please, understand I'm not saying "God is God." Nor am I saying that He chose to make time fit whatever he was doing. The creation story is a way of relating something very supernatural that started all natural life. It is explaining in ancient terms a series of events and trying to relate them in very human terms.[/b][/quote]

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

My post that you quoted was actually aimed at the guy before you, who is either making up bad arguments or didn't word his point well.

I don't understand why the term "day" is used in relation to the story of creation if it is not the same definition of the term we use.

A "day" indicates a cycle - ancient civilisations worked in lunar cycles whereas today we base it on the sun.

Surely Genesis should then be reworded to read 'God created the world in 7 unspecified but equal lengths of time' if "day" is not going to be used in the sense it has always been recognised.

 

[shtove]

Don't know who's worse - the literal minded holy-text fundamentalists, or the literal minded face-facts bullies. God is the place you get to when life has smacked you down. Then a voice says, "So you're not that hot. Chill out and look around. It's not too shabby - it could even be good. Your choice."

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Don't know who's worse - the literal minded holy-text fundamentalists, or the literal minded face-facts bullies. God is the place you get to when life has smacked you down. Then a voice says, "So you're not that hot. Chill out and look around. It's not too shabby - it could even be good. Your choice."
[/b]

That's your opinion.

To me that voice isn't God at all, it's me.

I would hate to think I'm not in control of my own life, which if everything is contolled by one all powerful being then technically I'm not.

 

[O'Rothlain]

My post that you quoted was actually aimed at the guy before you, who is either making up bad arguments or didn't word his point well.

I don't understand why the term "day" is used in relation to the story of creation if it is not the same definition of the term we use.

A "day" indicates a cycle - ancient civilisations worked in lunar cycles whereas today we base it on the sun.

Surely Genesis should then be reworded to read 'God created the world in 7 unspecified but equal lengths of time' if "day" is not going to be used in the sense it has always been recognised.
[/b]

Honestly not trying to sound smug, but when one studies ancient literature you see how they relate things quite differently than we do today. Also, this is a translation from ancient hebrew. I'm not sure what the origional word would have been, but the problem with the english bible is that it is a translation of a translation of a translation, and as the saying goes stuff gets lost in the translation. Most theologians (those who study God and relgion) have to take greek and hebrew courses so they can then fully study the bible.

<div class='quotemain'>
Don't know who's worse - the literal minded holy-text fundamentalists, or the literal minded face-facts bullies. God is the place you get to when life has smacked you down. Then a voice says, "So you're not that hot. Chill out and look around. It's not too shabby - it could even be good. Your choice."
[/b]

That's your opinion.

To me that voice isn't God at all, it's me.

I would hate to think I'm not in control of my own life, which if everything is contolled by one all powerful being then technically I'm not.
[/b][/quote]
Again...free will. Technically you are in control. The issue is not control, but the fact that you are faced with absolutes. Live according to the bible, go to heaven...live outside of it, go to hell. So the element of getting off without consequence for your decisions is absent.

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

It's really good to see people discussing religion in such a civil manner.
Considering it's like skating on thin ice, i have to applaud everyone here for being so mature about the way they are approaching their side of the discussion.

I personally don't believe in God.
I'm too selfish to believe there is alegedly something far greater than me.
There's nothing greater than me, nor am i greater than anything else.
Being equal doens't bother me, but being inferior and to be judged by something grinds my gears.

I'm not well educated in religion, so these are strictly opinions.

I think I remember my sister (a Jehovah's Witness) once told me that if there ARE aliens (or if we ever encounter any UFO sightings) then they are the work of the Devil...or soemthing like that. I hope i'm not misquoting her to sound like a freak, because she is countless times more intelligent than i, but for an idea so fantastic, for there to be actually BE other forms of life, just the idea of not being alone in this universe enlightens me.
My mind opens and runs free. Intellectually, mentally, thoughtfully i have no restrictions. There are no boundaries when i think about other life forms, because nobody has ever taught anything about them (whether they exist or not). And if something has such a positively prodfound effect on me i begin to take a little offence if someone deems them as the work of what they regard as the Devil.

It would be great if someone could enlighten me on how other life forms are perceived in religion.

...or an article i could read on it.

 

[shtove]

I would hate to think I'm not in control of my own life, which if everything is contolled by one all powerful being then technically I'm not.
[/b]

Give it a while. It turns out better when you've lost control. Strange, but true.

 

[ak47]

a big no

if he does - send me pics, email address etc

if he ever did - u still cant prove it

there is no-one looking over us...only the sun, and galaxy if it had eyes

<div class='quotemain'>
I would hate to think I'm not in control of my own life, which if everything is contolled by one all powerful being then technically I'm not.
[/b]

Give it a while. It turns out better when you've lost control. Strange, but true.
[/b][/quote]

PLACEBO'S EXIST ASWELL

 

[O'Rothlain]

It's really good to see people discussing religion in such a civil manner.
Considering it's like skating on thin ice, i have to applaud everyone here for being so mature about the way they are approaching their side of the discussion.

I personally don't believe in God.
I'm too selfish to believe there is alegedly something far greater than me.
There's nothing greater than me, nor am i greater than anything else.
Being equal doens't bother me, but being inferior and to be judged by something grinds my gears.

I'm not well educated in religion, so these are strictly opinions.

I think I remember my sister (a Jehovah's Witness) once told me that if there ARE aliens (or if we ever encounter any UFO sightings) then they are the work of the Devil...or soemthing like that. I hope i'm not misquoting her to sound like a freak, because she is countless times more intelligent than i, but for an idea so fantastic, for there to be actually BE other forms of life, just the idea of not being alone in this universe enlightens me.
My mind opens and runs free. Intellectually, mentally, thoughtfully i have no restrictions. There are no boundaries when i think about other life forms, because nobody has ever taught anything about them (whether they exist or not). And if something has such a positively prodfound effect on me i begin to take a little offence if someone deems them as the work of what they regard as the Devil.

It would be great if someone could enlighten me on how other life forms are perceived in religion.

...or an article i could read on it.
[/b]

We percieve other life forms as Angels?
Personally, I don't believe in "Aliens." I, like you am self-centered, and believe God would never have created a lifeform outside of me. But to be honest, "other life forms" have traditionally thoughout the ages been seen as demons and angels. Only in our modern society have we dreamed of little green men in flying disks. If you ask me, there's way too much propaganda out there by the sci-fi groups. But the same could be said of my faith, so whilst I personally think they're all nutters, I know you might think the same about me...fair play...But damnit...I'm right.

 

[Mr. Laxative]

Simple question? What do you mean by god? Give me your definition?







Also, I think Jesus, Buddha, etc. were probably the same person.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

I am utterly convinced there is a something...I go with my traditions & culture when it comes to addressing this belief. I'm a Catholic...I go to mass. It's an opportunity to meet with the community, give thanks for everything, to address parts of my life I'm not happy with, to make peace for times I've let myself down and to think about my friends and family and how they're doing.

The sum totals of what goes on in this almost universally derided organised religion (Ie "Be excellent to one another") are things you'd struggle to object to. If some lefty Guardian reading hippy chick recommend meditating she's seen as all progressive and enlightened...yet the fashion for organised religion bashing is almost all pervasive and people who are found to believe are treated like freaks/pariahs.

It does amuse the way militant evangelical atheists announce their views as if they are taking a brave, radical stance against a modern theocracy.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Simple question? What do you mean by god? Give me your definition?
Also, I think Jesus, Buddha, etc. were probably the same person.
[/b]

God:
God, as I believe is the Abrahamic Diety of the Abrahamic Faiths (ie Judaism, Islam, Christianity). He (typically characterized as male but in no way limited to the bounds of the human sex) is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
I believe in one singular God (monotheism as apposed to a variety of gods polytheism) who has typically been represented through modern religious movements as a trinity (ie father son and holy spirit) because of the complexity of God's nature. Since we as humans often practice anthropomorphism, God has definetely been a victim, and whilst placing human characteristics on the devine creator of the universe may help in some ways to understand His complex nature, it also confines God into something He is not.
God is unfalable, just, and merciful. God as creator has allowed his creation the freedom of choice, of will, and of purpose. I believe in a divine purpose centered through the Creator, but it is our option to follow this calling.

When it comes to Jesus of Nazereth, I believe He is the Christ (or Messiah) of ancient Jewish prophecy. He is often called the Son of God, because he is an incarnation of God in human form. Again because of the complex nature of an everpresent divinity I believe that God can co-exist as both Christ and the Creator simultaneously.

When it comes to the Holy Spirit (the thrid part of the "god-head" or "trinity), I believe that this a spirtual connection to God that can be obtained after acceptance of salvation through Jesus as the stand in sacrifice needed to redeem us from our sin (this is deeply tied into ancient jewish faith). This relationship can be seen as a level of spritual enlightenment.


*Please note this is a sumation of my beliefs done first thing in the morning without the aid of caffeine that the good Lord so intended for the morning.

 

[C A Iversen]

So, you too can deviate where you want to?

Nice to see that there's now an O'Rothlainism faith. Show some christ-like humility and cheek turning when you respond to this:

What a pompous, pulpit-perched promotion of paganism. I say that, as it's as far from the "defined faith" of any of the comglomeration of religions that you are extolling. You are as much full of interpretism as the next preacher.

Mind you infinite variations is all part of the subject matter. I guess theres also a large chance I'm wrong and that you are an authority on all religions.

I'm willing to roll the dice and say.......you are not.

 

[loratadine]

there is a god, there is a creator, that is without any doubt, and should not be doubted or questioned.

 

[C A Iversen]

I've neither questioned or argued or agreed to that. This is not (in my view) the forum for such things to be aired explicitly, decided or even practiced.

I love it though in one way. It's become the big word show. Nothing brings out a "I'm more educated than you, and I'm quite prepared to show it!" display than trying to show you know something important about the origin of all things.

Like insects discussing the global economy, and all ready, set, prepared to make as much difference.

 

[O'Rothlain]

So, you too can deviate where you want to?

Nice to see that there's now an O'Rothlainism faith. Show some christ-like humility and cheek turning when you respond to this:

What a pompous, pulpit-perched promotion of paganism. I say that, as it's as far from the "defined faith" of any of the comglomeration of religions that you are extolling. You are as much full of interpretism as the next preacher.

Mind you infinite variations is all part of the subject matter. I guess theres also a large chance I'm wrong and that you are an authority on all religions.

I'm willing to roll the dice and say.......you are not.
[/b]

Yes, O'Rothlainism is catching on like wildfire, I'm baptising as we speak (or type).
I was asked what MY definition of "God" was. That is it. That is mentally how I define God. My view is definetly taken in part and influenced by the Apostles Creed:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and the life everlasting.
Amen.
So, if you don't think it's in line with the "religions I extoll" I think you ought to take a closer examination of those faiths.
...And, I might have a little more knowledge on religion than you think...

I've neither questioned or argued or agreed to that. This is not (in my view) the forum for such things to be aired explicitly, decided or even practiced.

I love it though in one way. It's become the big word show. Nothing brings out a "I'm more educated than you, and I'm quite prepared to show it!" display than trying to show you know something important about the origin of all things.

Like insects discussing the global economy, and all ready, set, prepared to make as much difference.
[/b]

...but I am in no way trying to display a "big word show" for you.

This is not (in my view) the forum for such things to be aired explicitly, decided or even practiced.[/b]

That is your view, indeed...well spotted.

 

[Ripper]

Hail Satan

 

[Mr. Laxative]

What we must understand here though, is the fact that many religions are polytheistic (more than one god). Were we to have members of these religions on here we would not get a fair representation of who believes there is a god/s. You have asked "Does GOD exist?" a better question would be "Do GODS exist?"

 

[sanzar]

Does god exist? Personally I have trouble with the concept and generally think we give god far too many human characteristics that just don't fit my own personal ethos on life. God is "just" it is "forgiving", "compassionate", it shows "wrath" etc ... these things to me (perfect or imperfect) are human value traits and I don't see how they could exist in any 'god'. I'm willing to accept this may not be the case, as it's impossible to prove one way or the other, but personally it just doesn't make sense to me how god could be so human.

 

[O'Rothlain]

What we must understand here though, is the fact that many religions are polytheistic (more than one god). Were we to have members of these religions on here we would not get a fair representation of who believes there is a god/s. You have asked "Does GOD exist?" a better question would be "Do GODS exist?"
[/b]

If you're asking that question, then, No...gods do not exist.
To Sanzar, I agree we do overly humanize God. I think we take that from the Greeks. By that I mean our understanding of who God is and how He relates to us has definetely been influenced by other cultures and their view on god/gods. How would the modern Christian Church view God if they had never been confronted with converting the Celts and Gaels? With time we've added Dogma to faith, and tradition to practice. We believe that these things are right, but they could be far off, couldn't they?