RBS 6 Nations - Italy vs England (11/02/2012, 16:00)

[psychic duck]

Italy shouldn't bother trying to play an expansive game until they have the quality of players to do so

 

[Gavin]

Italy shouldn't bother trying to play an expansive game until they have the quality of players to do so

Italy have quality players but they need a consistent fly-half to get the most out of the backline

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Italy played a more expansive game than england did. I never thought i'd say that but it's true. Italy seem to have come on leaps and bounds and i can see them taking antoerh scalp this year!

 

[Gavin]

in the pack there is quality, but not one of their backline would get near the France team, and you need backs to play expansive rugby but they don't have enough quality there

Just out of interest how many of the other teams in the Six Nations would any of their backline get near the French team? Maybe only George North considering form at the moment. Masi is a top quality player, same with Benvenuti and Sgarbi. Gori played reasonable well though I must admit McLean on the wing is disappointing whereas the other winger, Venditti, just needs more game time and experience because he is one big unit.

 

[Teh Mite]

Just out of interest how many of the other teams in the Six Nations would any of their backline get near the French team? Maybe only George North considering form at the moment.

Foden, O'Driscoll, North, Halfpenny (maybe). Yeah, getting tricky now...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Players released back to their clubs:
Attwood, Banahan, Clark, K. Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples, Waldrom

I think we'll see the same 22, but with Morgan and Dowson switching places, and Farrell starting 10 (with Turner-Hall in the centres, Hodgson on the bench)

 

[B10]

Karl Dickson released but Lee is still with squad.

 

[Teh Mite]

Players released back to their clubs:
Attwood, Banahan, Clark, Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples, Waldrom

I think we'll see the same 22, but with Morgan and Dowson switching places, and Farrell starting 10 (with Turner-Hall in the centres, Hodgson on the bench)

I suspect you're correct. Which is a shame as there's little point doing anything with the backline if Youngs continually refuses to pass the ball. He's starting to hold that shirt like Ellis did when Care should have been given caps all those years ago...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Karl Dickson released but Lee is still with squad.

Aha, I should probably specify that *edits*

I suspect you're correct. Which is a shame as there's little point doing anything with the backline if Youngs continually refuses to pass the ball. He's starting to hold that shirt like Ellis did when Care should have been given caps all those years ago...

Italy/Wales/France/Ireland better stock up on these then:

 

[gingergenius]

Players released back to their clubs:
Attwood, Banahan, Clark, K. Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples, Waldrom

I think we'll see the same 22, but with Morgan and Dowson switching places, and Farrell starting 10 (with Turner-Hall in the centres, Hodgson on the bench)

hopefully

 

[madflyhalf]

Italy:

15 Andrea MASI (Aironi Rugby, 65 caps)
14 Giovanbattista VENDITTI (Aironi Rugby, 1 cap)
13 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Treviso, 13 caps)
12 Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont-Auvergne, 73 caps)
11 Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 34 caps)
10 Kristopher BURTON (Benetton Treviso, 10 caps)
9 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 10 caps)
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 84 caps)
7 Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 17 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 59 caps)
5 Marco BORTOLAMI (Aironi Rugby, 89 caps)
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS (Aironi Rugby, 26 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 83 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 42 caps)
1 Andrea LO CICERO (Racing-Metro Paris, 92 caps)



16 Tommaso D'APICE (Aironi Rugby, 4 caps)
17 Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 9 caps)
18 Antonio PAVANELLO (Benetton Treviso, 5 caps)
19 Mauro BERGAMASCO (Aironi Rugby, 88 caps)
20 Fabio SEMENZATO (Benetton Treviso, 9 caps)
21 Tobias BOTES (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)
22 Luca MORISI (BancaMonteParma Crociati, debut)

 

[psychic duck]

Italy:

15 Andrea MASI (Aironi Rugby, 65 caps)
14 Giovanbattista VENDITTI (Aironi Rugby, 1 cap)
13 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Treviso, 13 caps)
12 Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont-Auvergne, 73 caps)
11 Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 34 caps)
10 Kristopher BURTON (Benetton Treviso, 10 caps)
9 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 10 caps)
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 84 caps)
7 Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 17 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 59 caps)
5 Marco BORTOLAMI (Aironi Rugby, 89 caps)
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS (Aironi Rugby, 26 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 83 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 42 caps)
1 Andrea LO CICERO (Racing-Metro Paris, 92 caps)

16 Tommaso D'APICE (Aironi Rugby, 4 caps)
17 Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 9 caps)
18 Antonio PAVANELLO (Benetton Treviso, 5 caps)
19 Mauro BERGAMASCO (Aironi Rugby, 88 caps)
20 Fabio SEMENZATO (Benetton Treviso, 9 caps)
21 Tobias BOTES (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)
22 Luca MORISI (BancaMonteParma Crociati, debut)

Treviso's Tommaso Iannone and Ludovico Nitoglia are way better than both those wingers, Venditti uses his size awfully and McLean is poor in defence

also is van Zyl injured?

 

[mstar]

Agree duck I thought Nitoglia or Iannone would play in the england game, i think the coach is looking to stifle England of the ball and try to set-up phases towards England touchline. I see another England vs Scotland kind of game, as Italy dont want to commit to a expansive rugby style as they dont have the quality defence to do it (or kicker to be percise enough to read and pinpoint kicks to corners). So expect a basic game of tackling and phases trying to get to Englands touchline.

For england it will be another Defensive kind of game it remains to be seen if we can get out of that mould and start throwing it around to the wingers etc

 

[madflyhalf]

Treviso's Tommaso Iannone and Ludovico Nitoglia are way better than both those wingers, Venditti uses his size awfully and McLean is poor in defence

also is van Zyl injured?

I really don't know why van Zyl is omitted... he played very well against France last saturday.

About Nitoglia... he is the best winger in Italy, and maybe one of the best full back, unfortunately he withdrawed himself from National Team, 5 or 6 years ago after he was publicy criticized and used as scapegoating by journalist and FIR technicians after a 6N match against England...
He was crucified because he dared to attack from his own 22 in the dying minutes, refuising to kick out and settle the match to another useless "good defeat" (-8); without any support from team mates, he just lost the ball, England recollected it and won by 15.
He's been charged of being ineffective, with only few tries scored... in a team that barely uses his backs in a mach!

Sport journalist are insane in Italy.
As well as white collars in FIR.

Mallet and Berbizier tried to have him back in the national team, but he was firm in his decision. And, appereantly, he is still now.


One of the greatest and purest talent of our rugby...

 

[psychic duck]

I really don't know why van Zyl is omitted... he played very well against France last saturday.

About Nitoglia... he is the best winger in Italy, and maybe one of the best full back, unfortunately he withdrawed himself from National Team, 5 or 6 years ago after he was publicy criticized and used as scapegoating by journalist and FIR technicians after a 6N match against England...
He was crucified because he dared to attack from his own 22 in the dying minutes, refuising to kick out and settle the match to another useless "good defeat" (-8); without any support from team mates, he just lost the ball, England recollected it and won by 15.
He's been charged of being ineffective, with only few tries scored... in a team that barely uses his backs in a mach!

Sport journalist are insane in Italy.
As well as white collars in FIR.

Mallet and Berbizier tried to have him back in the national team, but he was firm in his decision. And, appereantly, he is still now.


One of the greatest and purest talent of our rugby...

I think retiring is a bit of an overreaction, especially still retiring 6 years on with different coaches

he needs a thicker skin, otherwise Bowe would have retired when he was blamed defensively for Ireland being thumped in the first half against France in 2006, or Alun-Wyn Jones when he blamed for costing Wales and England match for tripping a few years ago

you would also not be seeing Hodgson in an England jersey right now either

 

[danit]

About Nitoglia... he withdrawed himself from National Team, 5 or 6 years ago after he was publicy criticized and used as scapegoating by journalist and FIR technicians after a 6N match against England...
He was crucified because he dared to attack from his own 22 in the dying minutes, refuising to kick out and settle the match to another useless "good defeat" (-8); without any support from team mates, he just lost the ball, England recollected it and won by 15.
He's been charged of being ineffective, with only few tries scored... in a team that barely uses his backs in a mach!

I don't think that's the real cause of his refusal to play for the national side, Nitoglia (whom I don't rate so highly) is not so weak to be disrupted by a singole episode happened years ago

I guess it's more a matter of his relationship with someone from the internal Italy staff (not the coaching)

 

[madflyhalf]

Yes it is... And that's what I mean with "white collars in FIR", I never mentioned "coaches".

People that don't play, don't coach, don't do anything in particular, but they are there since... ever!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

lol i just listen to A Farrell talking about how the attacking platform worked last weekend and they don't plan to change it. He said all they need was better ball retention! Now that statement is worrying. I thought our attack was to kick the ball back to the opposition FB and then not chase?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

lol i just listen to A Farrell talking about how the attacking platform worked last weekend and they don't plan to change it. He said all they need was better ball retention! Now that statement is worrying. I thought our attack was to kick the ball back to the opposition FB and then not chase?

So Andy Farrell is happy with our attack, and Stuart Lancaster is happy with our backrow....

Why do the RFU insist on hiring coaches that are so bloody dense?

 

[Peat]

Don't get the issue about what Farrell said. The attacking platform - separate from the attack - did work well last week. The forwards were driving over quickly and Youngs were doing a good job of leading forwards onto the ball to get front foot ball. The only problem was the ball squirted out of the back/side a lot - poor ball presentation, clumsy rucking, there was one time when Youngs could have been quicker - hence the need for better ball retention.

I disagree with nothing he's said as reported.