RBS 6 Nations - Ireland vs Scotland - 10/03/2012, 17:00

[Leonormous Boozer]

Probably played under 20's with them and before he broke in. It's the way it works here. Players do play for their club more than people think mainly when they're younger or coming back from injury. He won't have played for them for a few years but the affiliation between players and AIL clubs is stronger than most think. Also academy stuff only really happens during the summer.

I don't agree with this in all cases. Obviously it's a big deal when a player from a club plays for their country but take players like Keith Earls or Cian Healy, who got to their team through playing in school (Who Discourage playing for clubs at about 13/14) and then the academy, have rarely ever played for their club if they have at all. Obviously they'll make appearances at the club to keep up their image but their loyalties would lie with their school and not the club, who they would care quite little about.
On the other hand the older players would have allegiances because they would have played rugby with the clubs before the start of HEC and Celtic league rugby but in the next few years none of the "Schoolboys" will care about the club their representing.

 

[big ginger 8]

I don't agree with this in all cases. Obviously it's a big deal when a player from a club plays for their country but take players like Keith Earls or Cian Healy, who got to their team through playing in school (Who Discourage playing for clubs at about 13/14) and then the academy, have rarely ever played for their club if they have at all. Obviously they'll make appearances at the club to keep up their image but their loyalties would lie with their school and not the club, who they would care quite little about.
On the other hand the older players would have allegiances because they would have played rugby with the clubs before the start of HEC and Celtic league rugby but in the next few years none of the "Schoolboys" will care about the club their representing.

Yeah I'd say they have stronger links to their school but before breaking into the squad properly. Jonny Sexton was playing for Mary's club in 09 for example. I do not however understand why foreigners have to find a club when they at least won't play for them.

 

[big ginger 8]

I haven't read back on this thread or anything, but Heaslip's club is Trinity College. Hence his Lions jersey hanging in the club house.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php?player=5027&includeref=dynamic

 

[monkeypigeon]

Yeah I'd say they have stronger links to their school but before breaking into the squad properly. Jonny Sexton was playing for Mary's club in 09 for example. I do not however understand why foreigners have to find a club when they at least won't play for them.

I think it's something to do with our official registered players number coming from club figures. So you register as a 'person playing rugby' with the club. Even if you never play for said club.

 

[big ginger 8]

On a slightly related topic Dan Carter nearly played for Mary's. Back when Brent Pope was coach there was an injury crisis and he called up a friend in Canterbury asking if he knew of any good tens and he told him about Carter. A short term deal was agreed with an option of extending but before he could get on the plane he got a call up or something. Pity.

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Scotland can win this game. Ireland just had a tough battle with France and only have a week rest before facing a high pace game against Scotland.

Scotland needs to pick one of the two strategies.
1. Play 60 minutes of defense and then run the tired Irish out in the last 20 (boring game)
2. Keep it a fast tempo game, score fast and keep it up

This is Scotland's best chance of an upset, they need to grab it with both hands

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't agree with this in all cases. Obviously it's a big deal when a player from a club plays for their country but take players like Keith Earls or Cian Healy, who got to their team through playing in school (Who Discourage playing for clubs at about 13/14) and then the academy, have rarely ever played for their club if they have at all. Obviously they'll make appearances at the club to keep up their image but their loyalties would lie with their school and not the club, who they would care quite little about.
On the other hand the older players would have allegiances because they would have played rugby with the clubs before the start of HEC and Celtic league rugby but in the next few years none of the "Schoolboys" will care about the club their representing.

Can't comment about Healy much as I not up to scratch with Leinster issues but Keith played at every level with Thomond and played AIL too more than often (even when he was fringe player) so here in Munster I can easily say Munster lads on fringes play alot for clubs. Up to last season Peter O'Mahony was playing weekly for Cork Con and even played on wing fo them on 1 occassion

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm getting the impression from munstermuffin that players on central contracts are subject to a degree of favouritism (for want of a better word). Which is idiotic. A couple of years of form or a big repuation and the team is plagued with the player for the next 4 years regardless of form or actual ability.

In some upbeat news: Wallace is back in the Munster squad for the Arioni match.

Wally back and will be raring to go for big game on Easter Sunday

As for Central Contracts it a BIG YEAH.
For instance - O'Leary vs Marshall. On value of contract alone.
Marshall: Wages payed by Ulster branch out of Supporters Club/IRFU Allocationed Budget to Ulster/ McIllroy Millions
O'Leary: 100% Paid by IRFU.

Same is for O'Mahony vs any of backrows.
Kidney didn't want Murray at start and never rated him when at Munster but his form made IRFU pick up tab on his wage (no increase) as he was starter.
McFadden is another to loose out on issue.

 

[Feicarsinn]

How many central contracts do we have? About 20? With that in mind I'd give them to:

Rory Best
Stephen Ferris
Jamie Heaslip
Johnny Sexton
Cian Healy
Sean O'Brien
Conor Murray
Keith Earls
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Tommy Bowe
Rob Kearney
Dan Tuohy
Luke Fitzgerald
Darren Cave
Mike Ross
Paul O'Connell
Sean Cronin
Andrew Trimble
Fergus McFadden

I gather that most central contracts are signed for four years, therefore we need to look at players who are going to be of the most use to us come 2015. The above players should make up the bulk of the World Cup squad for England. I'd be very sceptical of offering anyone over the age of 30 one, but considering the worth of Ross and O'Connell it'd probably be worth making an exception for them.

 

[munstermuffin]

Pic of Heaslip in 04 playing for Trinity
http://www.inpho.ie/media/7VL91NL1LjJrm-9442cwvQ..a

Paulie Last season
http://clubhouse.irishrugby.ie/21167.php

And even just a few weeks ago Shannon played Young Munster and Young Munster had Keatley, Johne Murphy and Shannon had Felix Jones, Luke O'Dea and Paddy Butler all of whom have been in alot of Munster squads this year.

 

[munstermuffin]

How many central contracts do we have? About 20? With that in mind I'd give them to:

Rory Best
Stephen Ferris
Jamie Heaslip
Johnny Sexton
Cian Healy
Sean O'Brien
Conor Murray
Keith Earls
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Tommy Bowe
Rob Kearney
Dan Tuohy
Luke Fitzgerald
Darren Cave
Mike Ross
Paul O'Connell
Sean Cronin
Andrew Trimble
Fergus McFadden

I gather that most central contracts are signed for four years, therefore we need to look at players who are going to be of the most use to us come 2015. The above players should make up the bulk of the World Cup squad for England. I'd be very sceptical of offering anyone over the age of 30 one, but considering the worth of Ross and O'Connell it'd probably be worth making an exception for them.

In Bold don'y have one but Donnacha Ryan has agreed. Ross is on a similar one to Murray that IRFU are picking up Tab but out of the players in bold who don't have one I think a few will never see one and McFadden I think is possibly 1.

 

[munstermuffin]

Players you left out who are possibilities:
O'Mahony
Zebo
Conway
O'Malley
Marshall
Nagle
Ruddock
Domnic Ryan
Mick Sherry

Alot can happen in 4 years and it's whoever is breaking through big time like Paddy Jackson and JJ Hanrahan aren't silly thoughs and few others of 20's

 

[Feicarsinn]

Nagle needs to get himself some first team rugby and fast. I'm not sure about offering any more wingers central contracts at the moment either, we have a fine crop as it is. It's be very tough for them to displace Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe and Trimble. Ruddock would want to shape up a bit too. He's been pretty lethargic this season and hasn't shown much ability at 8. I'd be hesitant to offer a central contract to a player who can only cover one position unless he is very good. I want to see a bit more of O'Mahony before I make a judgement on his. He's played well for Munster this season, but has failed to make an impact in either of his appearances of the bench for the national team. As for Marshall, well truth be told I think our next big thing at scrum half is going to be Luke McGrath. He may only be 18 but if he continues on his current trajectory he'll be starting for Leinster by the time he's 20.

 

[Peat]

I challenge you to find a picture of Heaslip playing for Naas then, he probably hasn't played since 15 or whenever he joined Leinster's academy

Pedantic note: Players only join provincial academies in Ireland upon leaving school almost without exception. Virtually no player goes straight from school to a provincial first team, which means they will be playing with a club for at least a season and probably more while serving their academy contract.

 

[Groundhog]

Pic of Heaslip in 04 playing for Trinity
http://www.inpho.ie/media/7VL91NL1LjJrm-9442cwvQ..a

Paulie Last season
http://clubhouse.irishrugby.ie/21167.php

And even just a few weeks ago Shannon played Young Munster and Young Munster had Keatley, Johne Murphy and Shannon had Felix Jones, Luke O'Dea and Paddy Butler all of whom have been in alot of Munster squads this year.

Yeah I've seen all the Shannon lads play for the club. My Dad brings me to see Shannon whenever they're in Dublin
On another note are all foreign players assigned a club by their province?

 

[monkeypigeon]

Scotland play rugby too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm looking forward to seeing if Rennie and Denton can continue to tear it up.

I think Rennie is well on his way to being the player of the tournament.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Nagle needs to get himself some first team rugby and fast. I'm not sure about offering any more wingers central contracts at the moment either, we have a fine crop as it is. It's be very tough for them to displace Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe and Trimble. Ruddock would want to shape up a bit too. He's been pretty lethargic this season and hasn't shown much ability at 8. I'd be hesitant to offer a central contract to a player who can only cover one position unless he is very good. I want to see a bit more of O'Mahony before I make a judgement on his. He's played well for Munster this season, but has failed to make an impact in either of his appearances of the bench for the national team. As for Marshall, well truth be told I think our next big thing at scrum half is going to be Luke McGrath. He may only be 18 but if he continues on his current trajectory he'll be starting for Leinster by the time he's 20.

I agree with all of this.

People bang on about Ruddock and Dominic Ryan being big hopes for the future for Ireland but if I'm being honest i can't see either of them ever becoming regular starters at international level. They're both pretty good players but they're carbon copies of the likes of Ferris and O'Brien. Only those lads were far better when they were 22. Ryan and Ruddock played in the backrow for Ireland U20s with O'Mahoney. I never heard a thing about him last year from pundits or rugby writers but he's streaks ahead of the 2 of them now. The lads would seriously wanna get their acts together. They're not gonna have youth as an excuse for much longer.

 

[the apple stealer]

Ireland to win

 

[Seaton]

Scotland play rugby too.

Indeed, The Scottish discussion on this thread is about as invigorating as watching a 300kg woman wearing only enough not to get locked up trying to shimmy her way up a wooden telephone pole.