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Quins stunned by fake injury fine

Let's face it, Tom Williams is known for not exactly being the sharpest tool in the box. There's no way that he worked out this little scam on his own. Exactly who is to blame we'll probably never know, but there are top people at 'Quins who firstly instigated and allowed this to happen, and have now sat back and said nothing as a young professional player faces up to a 12 month ban....
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Jul 22 2009, 04:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
What I understood is he was really bleeding, but he was not injured at all and could have just washed the blood with some water. Very harsh on the player, really a scapegoat here. How can the commission be so stupid as to think he decided it by himself? He obviously followed orders.
Also, 12 months? WTF? So that's 365 days. Burger, for sticking his fingers in another player's eyes gets 14 days. Is it really 25 times worse? Hope the kids in rugby school leaned the lesson : if you cheat, make it violent and obvious, and please, do it ON THE FIELD, in front of the cameras! Because rugby is a physical game you know...

:wacko:

I think Schalk Burger is like that banana when he learns about that story :bana:[/b]

He got 8 weeks didn't he? thats 56 days.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Jul 22 2009, 11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Jul 22 2009, 04:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What I understood is he was really bleeding, but he was not injured at all and could have just washed the blood with some water. Very harsh on the player, really a scapegoat here. How can the commission be so stupid as to think he decided it by himself? He obviously followed orders.
Also, 12 months? WTF? So that's 365 days. Burger, for sticking his fingers in another player's eyes gets 14 days. Is it really 25 times worse? Hope the kids in rugby school leaned the lesson : if you cheat, make it violent and obvious, and please, do it ON THE FIELD, in front of the cameras! Because rugby is a physical game you know...

:wacko:

I think Schalk Burger is like that banana when he learns about that story :bana:[/b]

He got 8 weeks didn't he? thats 56 days.
[/b][/quote]

Yeah sorry I don't know why I had in mind that he only had got 2 weeks. still doesn't change much to my point
 
The 12 months ban is extremely excessive. He's following bosses orders. Whoever told him to do that needs to take most of the weight for it.

He shouldn't be expected to jeapordise his position within a club by refusing to comply with these sort of incidents.
 
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If you didn't see if, here it is. My guess is blood capsul, like hollywood...haha!
 
Very good article from Brian Moore here

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Tom Williams made the fall guy at Harlequins in misguided ERC crackdown

'Hard cases make bad law' is a legal maxim often misused by the common man, but it is entirely apposite to describe the recent rulings made by the independent European Rugby Cup disciplinary panel.

The controversial replacement of Harlequins substitute Tom Williams, for a blood injury, allowed the injured Nick Evans to retake the field and attempt a game-winning dropped goal that would have beaten Leinster in the semi-finals of last season's Heineken Cup.

The precise machinations and culpability of the parties allegedly involved in the incident will be obtained only by the administration of a truth serum; which was beyond even the far-reaching powers of the ERC disciplinary body. They will certainly have made little impact on the Harlequins coach, Dean Richards, with his many years of experience of being cross-examined by Queen's Counsels while he was an officer in the Leicestershire Constabulary.

No doubt Richards expected the decision to go the same way as previous cases, in which there was a suspicion that he or his colleagues had not played by the book: 'Not guilty â€" we suspect you did it but we cannot find the proof.'

He cannot, in his most extreme dreams, have thought they would return a verdict that said: 'Not guilty â€" we suspect you did it but as we can't prove it we're going to be extra-specially severe on the only person we can decisively put in the frame.'

The transcript of the ERC ruling will make fascinating reading, as it will show how that body was able to be so confident about circumstantial evidence in returning the verdicts. It will also, no doubt, explain what justification there was for finding the player acted on his own in trying to pretend he had been injured.

It should make epic reading, because it surely must address how and why Williams acted in the way alleged. Williams was only on the substitutes' bench for the game and had sat there for the first 70 minutes of the match. If he acted alone, he probably had secreted about him a device to deliver the blood substance to his mouth.

Given that he did not leave the technical area during the second half and was given little notice of the fact that he was replacing another substitute, Chris Malone, he must have had any such device about his person for at least the 30 minutes after half-time. He must also have obtained the said device and brought it to the ground, unless he used the break to nip off to the nearest blood substance-administering device shop.

Given that he was on the field for only five minutes, as a junior player Williams must be remarkably mature and cynical to conclude independently that after this short time, the greater good meant that his team needed him to go off and be replaced by an already injured player, who may, or may not, have been able to stand up long enough to take a drop at goal, and in circumstances which were not guaranteed to occur.

Williams did not admit the charge and the finding that cleared the medical staff and Richards necessarily implies that the people who examined the injury were satisfied it was genuine. In the light of all this the ERC must have had other evidence to prove the aforesaid were conned by Williams, that being the inescapable conclusion from their findings.

Despite the claim made by Leinster, their medical staff did not have the right to examine Williams, as the tournament was played under International Rugby Board law, and law 3.10 does not give this right; therefore this does not imply guilt as asserted by Leinster. The fact that Williams was seen to be fiddling with his mouth is not conclusive evidence.

The cocky and dull wink given by Williams does not look good, but that alone is insufficient to overcome the difficulties as set out above and prevent the player from plying his trade for a whole year.

It is curious that the club have been fined when their two medical staff and coach were cleared of wrongdoing. If clubs are to be visited by the unilateral actions of their employees, they had better disclose this to their indemnity insurers.

Further curiousness is aroused by the size of the club fine, at â'¬250,000 (£216,000). If the club officials were not involved, there is no logical basis for any fine and even if there was a technical reason it should only have been a token. Further, for what reason is half the fine suspended? Suspensions are used to ensure that in the future there is no similar behaviour. If there is no specified behaviour, there can be no repeat and thus no reason for the suspension.

See what I mean about hard cases and bad law?

Of all this, Jeremy Paxman at his magnificently sneering best might say: "Come off it!" I have no more proof than ERC had, but I think that this was one of an increasing number of occasions when a variety of teams, both club and international, have bent the rules. I applaud the determination of ERC, but they are wrong here.

Quins did not win that game and ERC should have waited for a better case to make their point. Indeed, it would have been better to make no findings in this case but issue a strong message that should sufficient evidence be available in similar cases their punishments would be severe.

As it is, they have two parties who for different reasons have got legitimate cause to complain about their punishment, especially Williams, the fall guy.

Although we may think in a 'Glenn Hoddle karma' way that they got what was deserved, this is a seriously flawed judgment.

The only solution is for substitutes to come and go without restriction; something else that rugby league has got right.[/b]
 
Brian Moore is up in arms, but he hasn't read the evidence. And the fine makes sense - officials exonerated, but the player is still a club employee.

It will be appealed, so we'll see.

If the club is prepared to go this far to cheat, you can be sure that somebody involved has the intention of making money at the bookies. Disaster. So the severity is warranted.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 23 2009, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Very good article from Brian Moore here

Quins did not win that game and ERC should have waited for a better case to make their point. Indeed, it would have been better to make no findings in this case but issue a strong message that should sufficient evidence be available in similar cases their punishments would be severe.[/b]

What wait until the cheating team actually succeeds? The premiership did that with West Ham's contract debacle and look where that ended up. As he said a message needed to be sent, I think that box can be ticked now.

Will be interesting to see if they tidy up the rule now. You'd imagine they will have to.
 
You mean amongst the Harlequins players in an attempt to get the club to take responsibility for their management? or by all the English teams in an attempt to ....... well why would they bother?
 
By the PRA. This is unions vs government, arse-against-the-wall time by the looks of it.
 
Did the French not try that with one of their players? The French Olympic Committee stated that the ban could only legally apply to European competitions and allowed the player to play in the Top14? Not sure what happened but the IRB stepped in quite quickly to back up the ERC itself and piled the pressure on the French Rugby Union. Some perpignan player me thinks.

I'm with the player on this one as the ban is far to excessive given his role in it, but I dont want him let off without the proper people being punished for it. If the Harlequins management step forward then I'm all on for his ban to be reduced. If not, then it goes to show what a nice man Dean Richards is.
 
Williams clearly winks, you can see it. Fact is, there is something going on, and it involved Evans being back on the pitch. And there was no contact with Williams mouth on that clip, so the blood injury must have been faked.

But, the club deserve the fine, because at that stage of a competition, the money increases, obviously. I don't think 12 months is right, i would say at least 6 months.

Compare this to Burger, and his ban is silly. Burger should have got a much higher ban 18 weeks minimum. As Teh Mite says, it's who you know, who you are that seems to determine the ban.. because it clearly isn't common sense or fairness.
 

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