Fritz fined and banned after red card

[Teh Mite]

To give examples of a dump vs a spear, The Fritz tackle on Varndell was a spear (barely, but a spear none the less). A good example of a perfectly legal dump tackle would be the one on Page 2 or Tindalls hit on Gregan in the 03 final - Pick-up, hold vertically, drive back and pin, effectively tackling "through" the player & taking them with you.

 

[smartcooky]

Its the pricnicple that th player in the air had no chance to brace or stabalize themselves for the hit. in the air if a guy takes a hit in the legs he is going to flip and land head first or at least upper body first . the only way the tackled players legs are giong to come up when they are on the ground if from big hit to gut that drives them up or the leg being lifted from the lift of hit they will not land head first its only a twist that will cause a spear.

Nonetheless, it is perfectly possible to tackle a player in the air, and still not injure him, i.e. grasp him, and bring him to ground. The reason they are banned as dangerous is because they carry a high risk if serious injury. That is why lifting a player up and turning him over is considered dangerous.

Bullitt is right... Fritz's tackle was a "spear" (dangerous) but the tackle on Jantjes in Charles' video was a "dump" (not dangerous)

 

[Charles]

So do we all agree that dump tackle are, and should stay legal? Ban the spear all you want though...

 

[smartcooky]

Charles

I have no problem with this



Its a near perfectly executed dump tackle. Wilko hits Ntamack and knocks him over. There is no attempt to lift Ntamack up or flip him over. Ntamack doesn't land on his back because he turns himself face down in the tackle, however I would still have no problem if Ntamack had actually landed on his back.

However, I do have a problem with this one...



Matthew Rees gasps Tani Fuga below the hips, lifts him up off the ground, then turns him head and shoulders downwards. Fuga's head hits the ground first, then Rees comes down on top of him

This was in 2009 (H Cup - Scarlets v Quins, the last match at Stradey Park IIRC) so very early on after the Spear Tackle Memorandum was distrubuted. Rees got a Yellow Card for the lateness of the tackle, but in today's climate, this is a straight Red, no question.


This is the essential difference between a legal (and safe) dump tackle, and an illegal and dangerous) tip tackle. The act of lifting the ball carrier upwards immediately places the duty of care on the tackler. Rees failed in this.

 

[No Soft Centres]

Ref, if we go to dump some, and lift them up and dump them on the ground, as long as we dont drive their head by tipping over is that legal? like this jamie noon hit (the second one)



????

do it frequently, and every now and then get pinged

 

[frontrowsupremacy]

Lifting in the tackle isn't illegal, so Noon's second tackle there is perfectly fine. The problem arises when the player being tackled is turned so that their head/neck hits the ground. Watch what Noon does when the man is off the ground; he keeps moving forward, driving him back. Perfectly legal dump tackle.

If you hit, lift and follow through it's okay, but if you hit, lift then twist the player (Like Rees did, watch him raise Fuga's right leg while simultaneously driving downward) so that they land head first then it's rightly a sending off.

 

[smartcooky]

Lifting in the tackle isn't illegal, so Noon's second tackle there is perfectly fine. The problem arises when the player being tackled is turned so that their head/neck hits the ground. Watch what Noon does when the man is off the ground; he keeps moving forward, driving him back. Perfectly legal dump tackle.

If you hit, lift and follow through it's okay, but if you hit, lift then twist the player (Like Rees did, watch him raise Fuga's right leg while simultaneously driving downward) so that they land head first then it's rightly a sending off.

I agree.

In Jamie Noon's tackle, the tackled player is never rotated beyond horizontal, and as you correctly point out, Noon keeps driving him back. I have no problem with this tackle at all.