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Protect Our Borders

I'm not one to dislike people based on where they are from but I must say it's strange sometimes being in some cities where I don't hear an English word spoken unless it's me.

It kind of creates a them and us attitude which I don't really like. I can't help myself feeling little dislike to people who live here but don't speak English.

I don't want to feel like that but at the moment I do
 
My uncle is a lorry driver and he says that all the talk about tons migrants going over now is over the top, the border control has been very good at stopping them what with the new test being done, (wanna say co checker or something like).

Although I think the rest of Europe need to do more to accommodate them as well.

It says something where migrants are willing to go right through France, Italy etc to get to us before they feel safe.

Personally I don't mind them as long as they work and try and integrate, which is more than could be said by some certain British born people.

I do think there should be tougher rules on those who break the law or in a minority case try and spread hate.
 
I'm not one to dislike people based on where they are from but I must say it's strange sometimes being in some cities where I don't hear an English word spoken unless it's me.

It kind of creates a them and us attitude which I don't really like. I can't help myself feeling little dislike to people who live here but don't speak English.

I don't want to feel like that but at the moment I do

What city is that, though?
Even London with its many nationalities doesn't ever feel like English is a minority language.

Plus its important to bear in mind how English ex pat communities behave abroad - in France and Spain for example forming insular cliques of people who don't speak the local language.
 
Had a laugh with my missus (Israeli) when we were in Luton, walking through the shopping centre, hugely diverse (is that PC enough to not get in trouble?) all speaking English with a stronger accent than me. See one other white couple in the whole place, walk past and they're speaking russian :D.

Definitely agree that people should be speaking trying to speak English, but then if they're talking amongst themselves, and English is a 2nd language, it's a bit harsh to insist that they struggle through.

Tough one to find a happy medium for.
 
What city is that, though?
Even London with its many nationalities doesn't ever feel like English is a minority language.

Plus its important to bear in mind how English ex pat communities behave abroad - in France and Spain for example forming insular cliques of people who don't speak the local language.

Yes most Brits who move abroad form their own little enclaves. Which ever country you move to you should have to do some sort of basic course learning simple conversation, culture and geography with some sort of citizen certificate after 6 or 12 months.
 
Yes most Brits who move abroad form their own little enclaves. Which ever country you move to you should have to do some sort of basic course learning simple conversation, culture and geography with some sort of citizen certificate after 6 or 12 months.

House! I win at Bull**** Bingo. Now you're waffling about 'citizenship certificates'. What, you mean test their knowledge of Morris dancing? Crown green bowls? Magna Carta? What about up here in Scotland, maybe we ask them to be able to describe the ingredients of a haggis, or who invented the TV? I mean, come on. Why do we need everyone to talk an 'official' language? All of this is born of paranoia fed by the tabloid press. It's utter crap and I'm sick of belonging to a union which allows people to espouse these kind of extreme right wing views unchallenged. Can you picture all the ex-pats in Hong Kong reacting to an edict demanding they start conversing in Cantonese? Are you for real?
 
Yes most Brits who move abroad form their own little enclaves. Which ever country you move to you should have to do some sort of basic course learning simple conversation, culture and geography with some sort of citizen certificate after 6 or 12 months.

one of the very reason why we rarely associate with them, if you want to create little Blighty abroad thats fine by me, but count me out, i am probably more French than the French themselves well thats what everybodies keeps telling me. i speak and read and write the language and all my friends are French, i'm the only Brit at MHR as club official. Brits living abroad are often a pain in the rear, and moan nearly as much as the French and thats going some!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
What a load of old cobblers you do come out with. You come on here with some belligerent diatribe pinched straight from the Daiy Mail's think tank, badmouthing immigrants and benefit recipients, and you think we're impinging on your right to free speech? To add to that, think about what you just said. We have to agree with you or we're all Marxist/Leninists. What next? You've got immigrants linked directly to terrorism, so maybe we're Muzzie-lovers if we don't buy into that one? If you think any right thinking individual is going to agree with that sort of ultra-conservative claptrap, then you're even dimmer than your posts suggest, and that's going some. I bet you're signed up to Britain First on Facebook. Jesus, but trolls don't half get around.

Slinging personal insults is easy the term troll is stupid your probably very young with none of your own thoughts cause you've seen nothing of life yet and feel using 'right on' phrases like daily mail think tank etc as clever you probably went or are still at university, grow up and look around you.
Australia, New Zealand and Canada have immigration poicies which benefit their respective countries by letting those in who add most value.
Below figures from wiki -:

Including their estimate of the number of UK-born children of illegal immigrant couples, they came to a range of between 417,000 and 863,000 'irregular residents', or people without the right to remain in the country. Their best estimate from within this range was 618,000.4 Jun 2014

We can hardly call these the odd few.
 
one of the very reason why we rarely associate with them, if you want to create little Blighty abroad thats fine by me, but count me out, i am probably more French than the French themselves well thats what everybodies keeps telling me. i speak and read and write the language and all my friends are French, i'm the only Brit at MHR as club official. Brits living abroad are often a pain in the rear, and moan nearly as much as the French and thats going some!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair play to you, I like to feel that I will be the same on moving to france, I am just starting to learn French, with the view to moving sometime in the next 10 years. I love French club rugby (not to mention the food, climate, scenery and women) and although Welsh prefer the Top 14 to Brit leagues, I wish I could get some decent coverage of Pro div 2 as I have a soft spot for Perpignan ever since Richard Parkes played there, each time I visit the south, Stade Aimee General is on my itinerary either to watch a game or to view the mid morning training session.
Looks like Montpellier will be up there next season with some cracking signings.
 
Yes most Brits who move abroad form their own little enclaves. Which ever country you move to you should have to do some sort of basic course learning simple conversation, culture and geography with some sort of citizen certificate after 6 or 12 months.
Why?

Honest question here and I don't think it gets asked enough or at all. I'm not asked to prove my Britishness having been born here but I have better grasp of history than the average Brit but am total rubbish when it comes geography beyond where a grew up and have lived. More importantly we are already such a culturally diverse country that how do you measure culture awareness and acceptance? There are elements of sub-culture I take part in that I'm 99% sure most members of this forum wouldn't have a clue about except stereotypical nonsense. I'm also sure that life living in inner cities very different to mine and I don't pretend to know anything about it, just the same as I have no true understand of how the upper classes live their lives. So how do you define what they should know? TV shows like pointless prove in a generic survey of the British public how little the average Brit knows about elements of British culture. A strong Geordie, Scottish or Yorkshire accent is really difficult for me to understand. Yet you want to put rules on other people for what reason, what actual purpose does it really have? Ultimately if a person is contributing towards society by working and supporting the country why should we stop them for doing so by not being able to prove on some arbitary scale they are not British enough.

My grandfather is Irish and grandmother South African. Yet for some people I am more British than 4th generation British-Indian.

I get bloody annoyed by simplistic arguments and sound bite policies the world is many shades of grey, not black and white.
I'm not one to dislike people based on where they are from but I must say it's strange sometimes being in some cities where I don't hear an English word spoken unless it's me.

It kind of creates a them and us attitude which I don't really like. I can't help myself feeling little dislike to people who live here but don't speak English.

I don't want to feel like that but at the moment I do
I think you hit an interesting point and something I've tried to explain to people in the past. If I walk down the street at night and two Arabic people are walking towards me do I feel fear? Yes, the real question is do I act upon it and should I? To which the answer is no. It's okay to have feelings of not understanding those who are different to yourself. The important thing is to acknowledge you have those feelings, understand they are the wrong and then act the way you should not how you feel.

Below figures from wiki -:

Including their estimate of the number of UK-born children of illegal immigrant couples, they came to a range of between 417,000 and 863,000 'irregular residents', or people without the right to remain in the country. Their best estimate from within this range was 618,000.4 Jun 2014

We can hardly call these the odd few.

Last note valley commando can you post the page for those figures? Not saying they are untrue just it's under silly statistics as there's no context. In 2013 there were 698,512 live births in the England & Wales yet one of your numbers is larger than the total births in one year when only 25% were from foreign nationals, so where does the number from illegal foreign national starts from since 1980? 24,720/year, 1800? 2874/year, 2010? 123,600/year. Also the number has zero meaning, how many is too many? How are you in a position to judge? Are you a leading expert of immigration control and it's influence on the economy as a whole? You listed three countries with strong immigration policies but have half the GDP of ourselves so how is that proof it's better to have a strong immigration policy?
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1...013/stb-births-in-england-and-wales-2013.html
 
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An addendum as I mentioned GDP not GDP/capita which sort of adjusts for population sizes (my bad been a long since I've had to remember what half these figures actually mean). Of the three given as examples Australia & Canada do have a better GDP/capita than the UK but NZ are lower by similar amount than Aus/Can is higher than the UK. Looking at the list as a whole I don't think anything is really proven pro/anti immigration based on the economy as a whole looking at the big numbers but I'm no economist who understands what effect that actually does have.
 
Who would want to live in France!!!

Sure they have nice weather and generally more attractive women but that isn't everythi...........

Never mind.

;)
 
Why?

Honest question here and I don't think it gets asked enough or at all. I'm not asked to prove my Britishness having been born here but I have better grasp of history than the average Brit but am total rubbish when it comes geography beyond where a grew up and have lived. More importantly we are already such a culturally diverse country that how do you measure culture awareness and acceptance? There are elements of sub-culture I take part in that I'm 99% sure most members of this forum wouldn't have a clue about except stereotypical nonsense. I'm also sure that life living in inner cities very different to mine and I don't pretend to know anything about it, just the same as I have no true understand of how the upper classes live their lives. So how do you define what they should know? TV shows like pointless prove in a generic survey of the British public how little the average Brit knows about elements of British culture. A strong Geordie, Scottish or Yorkshire accent is really difficult for me to understand. Yet you want to put rules on other people for what reason, what actual purpose does it really have? Ultimately if a person is contributing towards society by working and supporting the country why should we stop them for doing so by not being able to prove on some arbitary scale they are not British enough.

My grandfather is Irish and grandmother South African. Yet for some people I am more British than 4th generation British-Indian.

I get bloody annoyed by simplistic arguments and sound bite policies the world is many shades of grey, not black and white.I think you hit an interesting point and something I've tried to explain to people in the past. If I walk down the street at night and two Arabic people are walking towards me do I feel fear? Yes, the real question is do I act upon it and should I? To which the answer is no. It's okay to have feelings of not understanding those who are different to yourself. The important thing is to acknowledge you have those feelings, understand they are the wrong and then act the way you should not how you feel.



Last note valley commando can you post the page for those figures? Not saying they are untrue just it's under silly statistics as there's no context. In 2013 there were 698,512 live births in the England & Wales yet one of your numbers is larger than the total births in one year when only 25% were from foreign nationals, so where does the number from illegal foreign national starts from since 1980? 24,720/year, 1800? 2874/year, 2010? 123,600/year. Also the number has zero meaning, how many is too many? How are you in a position to judge? Are you a leading expert of immigration control and it's influence on the economy as a whole? You listed three countries with strong immigration policies but have half the GDP of ourselves so how is that proof it's better to have a strong immigration policy?
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1...013/stb-births-in-england-and-wales-2013.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Illegal_immigration_in_the_United_Kingdom

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Why?

Honest question here and I don't think it gets asked enough or at all. I'm not asked to prove my Britishness having been born here but I have better grasp of history than the average Brit but am total rubbish when it comes geography beyond where a grew up and have lived. More importantly we are already such a culturally diverse country that how do you measure culture awareness and acceptance? There are elements of sub-culture I take part in that I'm 99% sure most members of this forum wouldn't have a clue about except stereotypical nonsense. I'm also sure that life living in inner cities very different to mine and I don't pretend to know anything about it, just the same as I have no true understand of how the upper classes live their lives. So how do you define what they should know? TV shows like pointless prove in a generic survey of the British public how little the average Brit knows about elements of British culture. A strong Geordie, Scottish or Yorkshire accent is really difficult for me to understand. Yet you want to put rules on other people for what reason, what actual purpose does it really have? Ultimately if a person is contributing towards society by working and supporting the country why should we stop them for doing so by not being able to prove on some arbitary scale they are not British enough.

My grandfather is Irish and grandmother South African. Yet for some people I am more British than 4th generation British-Indian.

I get bloody annoyed by simplistic arguments and sound bite policies the world is many shades of grey, not black and white.I think you hit an interesting point and something I've tried to explain to people in the past. If I walk down the street at night and two Arabic people are walking towards me do I feel fear? Yes, the real question is do I act upon it and should I? To which the answer is no. It's okay to have feelings of not understanding those who are different to yourself. The important thing is to acknowledge you have those feelings, understand they are the wrong and then act the way you should not how you feel.



Last note valley commando can you post the page for those figures? Not saying they are untrue just it's under silly statistics as there's no context. In 2013 there were 698,512 live births in the England & Wales yet one of your numbers is larger than the total births in one year when only 25% were from foreign nationals, so where does the number from illegal foreign national starts from since 1980? 24,720/year, 1800? 2874/year, 2010? 123,600/year. Also the number has zero meaning, how many is too many? How are you in a position to judge? Are you a leading expert of immigration control and it's influence on the economy as a whole? You listed three countries with strong immigration policies but have half the GDP of ourselves so how is that proof it's better to have a strong immigration policy?
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1...013/stb-births-in-england-and-wales-2013.html

https://fullfact.org/immigration/how_man_illegal_immigrants_uk-32868

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Who would want to live in France!!!

Sure they have nice weather and generally more attractive women but that isn't everythi...........

Never mind.

;)

Weather, women, food, scenery, climate, driving conditions, club rugby, wine, government.
All above are better in France, what do we have that's better than France apart from Beer
 
Okay now answer any of the questions I asked what do these numbers prove.

618,000 illegal immigrants total that's since they moved here since they were born, some of the 44,000 to 114,000 of them were born here and could be any age. Those that came to this country could be any age as well and lived here for a length we can't determine. For example (and please note I'm being deliberately stupid here) someone who illegally came into this country in 1916 at the age of 1 would now be 100 but count under that number.

Still those are just numbers that provide ZERO context, we have no idea what they actually mean in the grand scheme of things it's a number we can say it's high because it's a nice big number and roughly 1% of the country's population. However again what is actually high? 2% of the population would be double the amount of illegal migrants, 0.5% half which is better? Can you prove that illegal migrants are bad for the country? Do you know how many resources they take up? Do we know how many are actually paying tax and actually contributing towards society and how many aren't?

It's easy to bandy figures around and politicians and news outlets love it because they are nice and simple. Very few actually provide the actual in depth knowledge those figures mean.

You say the number is high, others say the number is low how do we prove who is right?
 
QUOTE FROM v commando.........Weather, women, food, scenery, climate, driving conditions, club rugby, wine, government.
All above are better in France, what do we have that's better than France apart from Beer

even the Northern French beer or Belgium beer is a good as anything in the UK plus it's cheaper and much stronger i may have to argue about Gov (bunch of muppets we have at the moment, skiing is just slightly better than the UK swimming pools are slightly warmer ours is a pleasant 29° at the moment, yes the french do moan more but after a while you just don't hear it anymore (water, ducks back, syndrome) there are probably lots more to add to the list but that would make you all far too jealous and we have enough of Blightyites creating cricket, baked beans, and marmite, Tesco weekly deliveries in Dordogneshire, English type pubs with Heineken and the like, so thanks but no thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Well yeah, there's all that...........but there's no Parisians in England, so who's the real winner here?
 
...your(sic) probably very young with none of your own thoughts... you've seen nothing of life yet and feel using 'right on' phrases like daily mail think tank etc as clever you probably went or are still at university, grow up and look around you.


Well, I'm not sure how you got all that from what I wrote, but it only serves to confirm my opinion of you. I'm a 57 year old electrician and never went near a university. My opinions are formed by experience and an ability to think for myself. You got your figures from Wikipedia. QED. You appear to abhor education though, and your posts reflect that. Tell you what though; I'm sure by now you've figured out that your National Front type rants won't go unchallenged. Wait, maybe you haven't. Maybe you're not pretending to be stupid. Anyhow, I'm guessing that your hopelessly inaccurate attempt at discrediting my views by simply dismissing it as the ramblings of a teenager mean that you're not big on irony. As for personal insults, I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to do someone with views as distasteful as yours justice.
 
Well, I'm not sure how you got all that from what I wrote, but it only serves to confirm my opinion of you. I'm a 57 year old electrician and never went near a university. My opinions are formed by experience and an ability to think for myself. You got your figures from Wikipedia. QED. You appear to abhor education though, and your posts reflect that. Tell you what though; I'm sure by now you've figured out that your National Front type rants won't go unchallenged. Wait, maybe you haven't. Maybe you're not pretending to be stupid. Anyhow, I'm guessing that your hopelessly inaccurate attempt at discrediting my views by simply dismissing it as the ramblings of a teenager mean that you're not big on irony. As for personal insults, I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to do someone with views as distasteful as yours justice.


Even if everything he said was true, teenager etc..., it wouldn't have made you wrong...
 

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