Protect Our Borders

[ZeroTwo]

And what are my views and why do you mistakenly believe they're unpopular?

They don't want freedom of speech because they don't want to face the truth. You can say the earth is flat or the queen is a lizard, no problem but going against the socialist narrative is not allowed. What ever do they want to hide


As for the economy, how about going back to the old system which was fairer and had less interference from the governments. They're just the lapdogs of the wealthy elite. Think Fifa on a mega scale. To say we need immigrants is nonsense.

Or maybe the "socialist narrative" is just the belief of the masses and as such when someone says differently, many people express their own opinion. This results in someone shouting that they're brainwashed or oppressive etc. I do however agree that there is a horrendous system in place to bias towards those with money.
And the point isn't necessarily that we NEED immigrants but that they're not exactly a bad thing. UCL published a study saying between 04-14 £5 billion pounds was put into the country by legal immigrants (http://www.cream-migration.org/files/FiscalEJ.pdf). For anyone who doesn't think that this compensates for the THREE PERCENT of immigrants who are asylum seekers (of which only 20% get granted full asylum), you need your maths checking.

And valley commando, have you been to the rougher suburbs of places like Paris? I have. Immigrants get treated awfully (not the fault of the French people so much as they are just forgotten about). Also France has a history of actively deporting people (Roma).

 

[goodNumber10]

We don't need immigration we need to change the benefit system to force the idle spongers we have back into the workplace, currently there are migrants being paid to do jobs that benefit claimers are equally able to do, so it would be cheaper all round to reduce benefits and force people back into work, this benefit reduction would also discourage any migrants from coming just to claim benefits, therefore any migrants entering the country would be coming for the right reasons.

 

[valley commando]

Scream on

 

[goodNumber10]

it's not a scream, it's a representation of the rage that your racist idiocy would fuel in any sane person.

 

[ncurd]

The benefits system is an annoyance of mine there are quite clearly people taking the **** on it but in equal measure I know plenty of people who are getting nowhere near the help they need. In my world the benefits would cost us a lot more as case workers would be paid more, we'd have more of them and they'd have a proper look at an individuals needs rather than blanket "this is what you get for x" policies we have now.

On immigration...it's a benefit to society, culture and tolerance. They adopt elements of our culture and we adopt them for example Indian food is almost ubiquitous with British food these especially as we've modified many dishes for our own consumption. In equal measure we've given the world the parliamentary system of governing and codified sport competition. Tolerence is formed through the acceptance and understanding of other people that only occur through the intermingling of societies.

On an economic front immigration is a very small strain on the countries budget and has a proven track record of filling gaps in the workforce market.

 

[RoosTah]

And what are my views and why do you mistakenly believe they're unpopular?

They don't want freedom of speech because they don't want to face the truth. You can say the earth is flat or the queen is a lizard, no problem but going against the socialist narrative is not allowed. What ever do they want to hide

I love how conservatives use the word "socialist" as if were a public relations policy, or whatever else they can hurl mud at.

I'm zeroing in on this in particular, because in Australia we currently have an ultra conservative government that shrieks at our public broadcaster if it airs views it doesn't find palatable. Indeed our old world Catholic fundamentalist PM, British national Tony Abbott, has continually accused the ABC of being 'traitors' to Australia for airing views he doesn't like. Something that's bad even by the conservatives' standards.

But go on, keep telling us about socialism and how bad it is for free speech.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

British national Tony Abbott.

Don't try and blame him on us, he moved to Australia when he was 2!

 

[RoosTah]

Don't try and blame him on us, he moved to Australia when he was 2!

He ****ing Knighted Prince Phillip, after knighthoods had been abolished 30 years ago. I'm blaming him on you for that alone .

Seriously, he speaks with an Aussie accent, but he's desperate to be British, to the point where former conservative PM John Howard said he was "embarrassing" to have around when royals were in town because of what a shameless suck up he was.

Indeed, he even looked uncomfortable at the cricket during the WC when Australia was beating England.

So yes, he's yours, and you're welcome to have him back whenever you like.

 

[TRF_heineken]

He ****ing Knighted Prince Phillip, after knighthoods had been abolished 30 years ago. I'm blaming him on you for that alone .

Seriously, he speaks with an Aussie accent, but he's desperate to be British, to the point where former conservative PM John Howard said he was "embarrassing" to have around when royals were in town because of what a shameless suck up he was.

Indeed, he even looked uncomfortable at the cricket during the WC when Australia was beating England.

So yes, he's yours, and you're welcome to have him back whenever you like.

Doesn't that actually apply to most of the Australian population???

 

[RoosTah]

What specifically? If you mean the whole "desperately wanting to be British" thing, then no, it only applies to the conservative side of politics, as that's almost exclusively where you'll find the gushing monarchists.

 

[valley commando]

it's not a scream, it's a representation of the rage that your racist idiocy would fuel in any sane person.

Are you completely mad, do you have any idea what racism is as you bandy the word about like lots of other trendy lefties.

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it's not a scream, it's a representation of the rage that your racist idiocy would fuel in any sane person.

Are you completely mad, do you have any idea what racism is as you bandy the word about like lots of other trendy lefties.

 

[SelimNiai]

The benefits system is an annoyance of mine there are quite clearly people taking the **** on it but in equal measure I know plenty of people who are getting nowhere near the help they need. In my world the benefits would cost us a lot more as case workers would be paid more, we'd have more of them and they'd have a proper look at an individuals needs rather than blanket "this is what you get for x" policies we have now.

On immigration...it's a benefit to society, culture and tolerance. They adopt elements of our culture and we adopt them for example Indian food is almost ubiquitous with British food these especially as we've modified many dishes for our own consumption. In equal measure we've given the world the parliamentary system of governing and codified sport competition. Tolerence is formed through the acceptance and understanding of other people that only occur through the intermingling of societies.

On an economic front immigration is a very small strain on the countries budget and has a proven track record of filling gaps in the workforce market.

As someone who spent the whole of 2013 on benefits its a tough thing. You do get tarred with the same brush as the scroungers, even to the point the person you sign on with thinks you don't give a damn about working instead of trying to help, which is their job. They ask you for the job you want, suggest something totally different, further away and for crap pay then when you decline for those reasons they just slap sanctions on you and expect you to carry on regardless.

I hope its a long, long, long time before I need them again.

[

 

[profitius]

as it was the the wealthy elite's lobbying to reduce and or remove government regulation on the economy. Notably the financial sector that was one of the main factors to the crash. The political system and its socio-economic powers where heavily influenced by the wealthiest in society but the answer is not to deregulate and leave all the levers of economic policy in the hands of the wealthy elite alone. Rather we need to reclaim the government through a proper social democratic program it is the best potential vehicle for real change regardless of popular it is to criticize governmental institutions


The simple matter of fact is with the west's ageing population and increasing dependency ratio we need immigration. to what degree is the real argument to be had

The wealthy elite have designed the current system. They're pushing mad for gobalisation and to get their claws into every economy in the world and eventually merge them all. They've pushed for less laws for themselves and more for the little people. Free trade has been a disaster. Sure everything is cheaper to buy... but at what real cost?

They've made trade easier between nations but made business harder in nations themselves.

I think like everything else, government should have very little interference and actually serve the people and not the other way around which is what it is today.

People say theres a lack of doctors, nurses etc but never ask themselves why. Something is obviously stopping people wanting to become doctors and nurses. Could it be that immigrants are keeping their wages down? Young Irish doctors and nurses are flooding out of the country so its not like theres none around! Also it has to be asked about the effect on the immigrants home countries. Or does that even matter? :O

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I love how conservatives use the word "socialist" as if were a public relations policy, or whatever else they can hurl mud at.

I'm zeroing in on this in particular, because in Australia we currently have an ultra conservative government that shrieks at our public broadcaster if it airs views it doesn't find palatable. Indeed our old world Catholic fundamentalist PM, British national Tony Abbott, has continually accused the ABC of being 'traitors' to Australia for airing views he doesn't like. Something that's bad even by the conservatives' standards.

But go on, keep telling us about socialism and how bad it is for free speech.

Well I'm all for free speech. I'm complaining about people blocking it. I don't know Abbott or know what he complained about so you'll need to go into some more detail

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I love how conservatives use the word "socialist" as if were a public relations policy, or whatever else they can hurl mud at.

I'm zeroing in on this in particular, because in Australia we currently have an ultra conservative government that shrieks at our public broadcaster if it airs views it doesn't find palatable. Indeed our old world Catholic fundamentalist PM, British national Tony Abbott, has continually accused the ABC of being 'traitors' to Australia for airing views he doesn't like. Something that's bad even by the conservatives' standards.

But go on, keep telling us about socialism and how bad it is for free speech.

Well I'm all for free speech. I'm complaining about people blocking it. I don't know Abbott or know what he complained about so you'll need to go into some more detail

 

[valley commando]

As someone who spent the whole of 2013 on benefits its a tough thing. You do get tarred with the same brush as the scroungers, even to the point the person you sign on with thinks you don't give a damn about working instead of trying to help, which is their job. They ask you for the job you want, suggest something totally different, further away and for crap pay then when you decline for those reasons they just slap sanctions on you and expect you to carry on regardless.

I hope its a long, long, long time before I need them again.

[

Glad to hear you have a job now, I agree with your comments on job centre staff (my ex wife worked in job centre).
They are only concerned with minimum work levels and a monthly salary, maybe if they were paid on performance related to how many clients they actually place in work things would be different.

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As someone who spent the whole of 2013 on benefits its a tough thing. You do get tarred with the same brush as the scroungers, even to the point the person you sign on with thinks you don't give a damn about working instead of trying to help, which is their job. They ask you for the job you want, suggest something totally different, further away and for crap pay then when you decline for those reasons they just slap sanctions on you and expect you to carry on regardless.

I hope its a long, long, long time before I need them again.

[

Glad you have a job now, my ex wife worked in the job centre and all they're interested in is minimum work level and monthly salary.
Maybe if their pay was performance related dependant on how many clients are successfully placed in jobs the level of service would improve.

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As someone who spent the whole of 2013 on benefits its a tough thing. You do get tarred with the same brush as the scroungers, even to the point the person you sign on with thinks you don't give a damn about working instead of trying to help, which is their job. They ask you for the job you want, suggest something totally different, further away and for crap pay then when you decline for those reasons they just slap sanctions on you and expect you to carry on regardless.

I hope its a long, long, long time before I need them again.

[

Glad you have a job now, my ex wife worked in the job centre and all they're interested in is minimum work level and monthly salary.
Maybe if their pay was performance related dependant on how many clients are successfully placed in jobs the level of service would improve.

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The wealthy elite have designed the current system. They're pushing mad for gobalisation and to get their claws into every economy in the world and eventually merge them all. They've pushed for less laws for themselves and more for the little people. Free trade has been a disaster. Sure everything is cheaper to buy... but at what real cost?

They've made trade easier between nations but made business harder in nations themselves.

I think like everything else, government should have very little interference and actually serve the people and not the other way around which is what it is today.

People say theres a lack of doctors, nurses etc but never ask themselves why. Something is obviously stopping people wanting to become doctors and nurses. Could it be that immigrants are keeping their wages down? Young Irish doctors and nurses are flooding out of the country so its not like theres none around! Also it has to be asked about the effect on the immigrants home countries. Or does that even matter? :O

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Well I'm all for free speech. I'm complaining about people blocking it. I don't know Abbott or know what he complained about so you'll need to go into some more detail

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Well I'm all for free speech. I'm complaining about people blocking it. I don't know Abbott or know what he complained about so you'll need to go into some more detail

Free speech, do we still have that ?
Some of the posters on this site aren't happy unless your singing their song.

 

[ZeroTwo]

Free speech, do we still have that ?
Some of the posters on this site aren't happy unless your singing their song.

Because disagreeing with you on any point is blocking free speech. Or even questioning the validity of a post like this on a rugby forum.

The secret police will be breaking down your door to take you away any minute now,

 

[ncurd]

As someone who spent the whole of 2013 on benefits its a tough thing. You do get tarred with the same brush as the scroungers, even to the point the person you sign on with thinks you don't give a damn about working instead of trying to help, which is their job. They ask you for the job you want, suggest something totally different, further away and for crap pay then when you decline for those reasons they just slap sanctions on you and expect you to carry on regardless.

I hope its a long, long, long time before I need them again.

I was on them in the second half of 2013 so I know exactly what your talking about. Which kind of point with those actually needing help getting it. At the time me and my fiancee(now wife) had to move out of our home (a one bedroom flat) into her parents house as we lost 3/5 of our monthly income but all I was entitled was JSA (which basically equated to just over a days pay on my previous salary). Whilst my fiancee paid the full amount in her job for tax, we knew single mother of one, who did cash in hand jobs to avoid paying tax and loosing benefits whilst us the tax payer paid for her to live in a 5 bedroom cottage in Dartmouth. The system is completely broken IMO. Another woman I know barely earnt the tax threshold last year but the goverment are hounding her to pay what she owes. She spends every day looking after her severely disabled adult son for which she gets little support from the government but if she left it up to the government for care he'd require 2 people giving 24/7 costing the tax payer 50k a year.

So yeah a lot better work at revamping the system, like what you said with people it's working in the job centre, I'd pay them more and have more of them to attract better people at it and more of them give you and me the time and attention we needed whilst out of work. My favourite one was being told after I suggested I'd look for Christmas job that I should being doing that a month or two previous....how was I suppose to know? All I remember from my fortnightly trips to the Job Centre was how much it was a colossal waste of time it was.

But yeah I really don't buy the argument that foreigners are stealing our jobs...


Fun fact: Free Speech laws don't exist in the UK...seriously they don't we have zero rights to it.

 

[j'nuh]

And what are my views and why do you mistakenly believe they're unpopular?

I meant "your" in general, I wasn't talking about you.

They don't want freedom of speech because they don't want to face the truth. You can say the earth is flat or the queen is a lizard, no problem but going against the socialist narrative is not allowed. What ever do they want to hide

What on earth are you talking about?

As for the economy, how about going back to the old system which was fairer and had less interference from the governments. They're just the lapdogs of the wealthy elite. Think Fifa on a mega scale. To say we need immigrants is nonsense.

What old system? Feudalism? Classical liberalism?

We don't need immigration we need to change the benefit system to force the idle spongers we have back into the workplace, currently there are migrants being paid to do jobs that benefit claimers are equally able to do, so it would be cheaper all round to reduce benefits and force people back into work, this benefit reduction would also discourage any migrants from coming just to claim benefits, therefore any migrants entering the country would be coming for the right reasons.

In terms of unemployment benefits, Jobseeker's Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance account for approximately 1.2% of government spending. People on ESA cannot work because of disability. Only a fraction of the 0.7% spent on JSA are people who are lazy. Unemployed laziness is not causing the welfare budget to be staggering... (And how are unemployed people supposed to live otherwise?)

More often than not, the reason people are unable to find a job is because the Job Centre provides pretty much no help, and can be actively harmful to job searching. The Job Centre uses humiliation tactics and sanctions to control those on JSA; very harmful to the 23% of Jobseekers that suffer from depression/anxiety. The Job Centre mandates people to spend time on their crappy job searching tool which has zero quality control, rather than the better tools available elsewhere. People are forced into travelling into the Job Centre every day, often stood in long queues, time which could be much better spent searching for jobs. Supervisors do not cater the job searching experience to your skills, they simply do a paint-by-numbers job, getting you to apply for exactly the same jobs as everyone else. The Job Centre puts no effort into helping you actually get a job, so it causes resentment for people who are job searching. You are forced into applying to x amount of jobs a week, meaning you end up spending your time handing out generic applications in order to hit your goal, rather than actually spending time on getting your applications polished.

If you're going to get in an outrage about anything, consider that 4.3% of government spending goes on Tax Credits, with a further 2.4% on Housing Benefit, for a total of 6.7%. These only occur because people aren't paid by their employers enough, so the government is forced to prop up their income.

 

[RoosTah]

Well I'm all for free speech. I'm complaining about people blocking it. I don't know Abbott or know what he complained about so you'll need to go into some more detail

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Should it matter what he was complaining about? The point is we have a conservative government that effectively labels people traitors if he doesn't agree with them. Not exactly pro free speech.

What is apparent though is that power, whether right wing or left generally doesn't like be criticised. The more to the extreme end of their particular spectrum, the more they hate criticism. This government is a particularly extreme form of conservative - some say even reactionary - and so it is setting records here for just how much it hates free speech.

So it's not really a "socialist" thing.

The wealthy elite have designed the current system. They're pushing mad for gobalisation and to get their claws into every economy in the world and eventually merge them all. They've pushed for less laws for themselves and more for the little people. Free trade has been a disaster. Sure everything is cheaper to buy... but at what real cost?

They've made trade easier between nations but made business harder in nations themselves.

You're sounding a little like a socialist yourself here ;-)

 

[YoungScud]

Free speech, do we still have that ?
Some of the posters on this site aren't happy unless your singing their song.

What a load of old cobblers you do come out with. You come on here with some belligerent diatribe pinched straight from the Daiy Mail's think tank, badmouthing immigrants and benefit recipients, and you think we're impinging on your right to free speech? To add to that, think about what you just said. We have to agree with you or we're all Marxist/Leninists. What next? You've got immigrants linked directly to terrorism, so maybe we're Muzzie-lovers if we don't buy into that one? If you think any right thinking individual is going to agree with that sort of ultra-conservative claptrap, then you're even dimmer than your posts suggest, and that's going some. I bet you're signed up to Britain First on Facebook. Jesus, but trolls don't half get around.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

In terms of unemployment benefits, Jobseeker's Allowance and Employment and Support Allowance account for approximately 1.2% of government spending. People on ESA cannot work because of disability. Only a fraction of the 0.7% spent on JSA are people who are lazy. Unemployed laziness is not causing the welfare budget to be staggering... (And how are unemployed people supposed to live otherwise?)

More often than not, the reason people are unable to find a job is because the Job Centre provides pretty much no help, and can be actively harmful to job searching. The Job Centre uses humiliation tactics and sanctions to control those on JSA; very harmful to the 23% of Jobseekers that suffer from depression/anxiety. The Job Centre mandates people to spend time on their crappy job searching tool which has zero quality control, rather than the better tools available elsewhere. People are forced into travelling into the Job Centre every day, often stood in long queues, time which could be much better spent searching for jobs. Supervisors do not cater the job searching experience to your skills, they simply do a paint-by-numbers job, getting you to apply for exactly the same jobs as everyone else. The Job Centre puts no effort into helping you actually get a job, so it causes resentment for people who are job searching. You are forced into applying to x amount of jobs a week, meaning you end up spending your time handing out generic applications in order to hit your goal, rather than actually spending time on getting your applications polished.

If you're going to get in an outrage about anything, consider that 4.3% of government spending goes on Tax Credits, with a further 2.4% on Housing Benefit, for a total of 6.7%. These only occur because people aren't paid by their employers enough, so the government is forced to prop up their income.

The amount spent on JSA for those the daily mail describes as 'lazy' is even more insignificant compared to the cost of corporate tax avoidance, which I don't see the Tories doing much about.
Its a typical conservative narrative to zoom in on the supposed laziness of the common man and to turn a blind eye to the antics of the wealthy. Valley Commando and the many others like him in the Uk need to realise that this rhetoric is working on them and they are allowing themselves to be 'had' both by the government and by the overwhelmingly right-wing press in this country.