Pro12 looking to expand to the East coast of North America (New York)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Not going to happen SH don't care about NH clubs and I can't see that having much desire for this.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The IRFU are pushing it I imagine, Browne is desperate not to fall behind and lose our players. I hope he's successful but I can't see how he will be.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The IRFU are pushing it I imagine, Browne is desperate not to fall behind and lose our players. I hope he's successful but I can't see how he will be.

I suppose the easiest most likely to succeed in making the Prp12 teams money would be to have an British and Irish league but that definitely won't happen.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I suppose the easiest most likely to succeed in making the Prp12 teams money would be to have an British and Irish league but that definitely won't happen.

Not until/unless soccer goes for a Europan super league and rugby feels the need to follow suit anyway. Something will likely have to be done in ~10 years when the pro12 is on its death bed, English rugby would take a big hit if the pro12 nations, and clubs to some extent, drifted into obscurity and if the money in the sport continues to go the way it's going, which I see no reason for it not to, that will happen.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I suppose the easiest most likely to succeed in making the Prp12 teams money would be to have an British and Irish league but that definitely won't happen.

I'd love to see a British and Irish super league with the caveat that welsh clubs would return to even pegging, it would improve level of both premiership and championship
The Italians could be absorbed into the French system

 

[gaston le gaff]

I'd love to see a British and Irish super league with the caveat that welsh clubs would return to even pegging, it would improve level of both premiership and championship
The Italians could be absorbed into the French system

sorry but we do not need the Italians, our Top 14 is probably one of the worlds best, so you can keep your Italians, but all in for a Super Euro leaugue between the French, English and Irish, sorry to the Scots and Welsh but your results in Euro comps does not get you into a Super league.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

sorry but we do not need the Italians, our Top 14 is probably one of the worlds best, so you can keep your Italians, but all in for a Super Euro leaugue between the French, English and Irish, sorry to the Scots and Welsh but your results in Euro comps does not get you into a Super league.

You lose Wales and Scotland and you lose England though, I agree the Italians aren't needed but I'd like to include them in a capacity similar to Les Jaguares in Super rugby if we were to do something like this. I think the only way to do it is in a global season while keeping promotion and relegation. Years away from happening yet as the English and French are happy with their big money leagues and the pro12 sides aren't at a critical stage yet and won't be for a few years.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I suppose one positive from this kind of information being leaked, is that it suggests the US and Canada have told Pro12 to buzz off (which hopefully means they are more focussed on PRO rugby).

Not until/unless soccer goes for a Europan super league and rugby feels the need to follow suit anyway. Something will likely have to be done in ~10 years when the pro12 is on its death bed, English rugby would take a big hit if the pro12 nations, and clubs to some extent, drifted into obscurity and if the money in the sport continues to go the way it's going, which I see no reason for it not to, that will happen.

I don't see that sort of collapse really. Football shows how the sport is corrupted by money, with European competitions becoming a joke (e.g. former European champs Celtic beaten 7-0 by Barcelona) and a club for a small number of countries with large TV money. However, even then, there are football leagues like the Dutch, Portuguese, Swedish, Belgian that used to have success on the European stage but no longer do (due to money). But these countries are able to have a domestic product that attracts fans and international teams that compete as well as ever in big tournaments. There is no sign that the big leagues of Italy and England have contributed to their international side dominating (similarly with France at rugby).

If the likes of the Celtic clubs lost their best players to big TV money leagues, then their top players would be playing at a high level and the Pro12 would see a lot of development. I really don't want that to happen, but in some ways I could see it improving the international sides of the Celtic countries.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I still think the way to go would be Euro super leaugue for the big clubs 4 French 3 English and 3 Irish, then a one each of regional Scot and Welsh teams you could still have a PRO 12 or then a 2nd div British league. THE french could carry on with their TOP 14. the only problem would be promo and relegation could be difficult to work out a fair process.As far as the French are concerned it would open up 4 places which could be a stepping stone for many more younger players to be given their chance. Not sure it will ever happen as the new Euro comps are in their early days and they would not want to lose ground to new measures.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

sorry but we do not need the Italians, our Top 14 is probably one of the worlds best, so you can keep your Italians, but all in for a Super Euro leaugue between the French, English and Irish, sorry to the Scots and Welsh but your results in Euro comps does not get you into a Super league.

Not saying they should join top 14, I said "French system" just so that they would be somewhere, probably d2

 

[profitius]

Talks were held the other day between the Canadian union and the pro12.


Meanwhile Eurosport will show Italian matches and broadcast the pro12 in 40 countries, starting next week.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

There is a news item emanating from Scotland on this matter indicating:

- 1x Canadian and 1x American team to join for season 2018/19
- a potential connection to or alignment with a new US league (presumably the Major rugby tournament).
- Pro12 broken into two conferences
- requires sanction of US and Canadian unions
- New York and Toronto speculated as possible locations

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...ms-to-go-west-in-american-expansion-1-4370290

From a personal perspective I find this news does nothing to remove my sense that the Canadian and US unions are wilfully undermining PRO Rugby and feeding negative stories about it as they have a vested interest in it failing because they have had their heads turned last year by Pro12.

Still, Pro12 franchises would be better than nothing assuming they have the sense to not play in freezing New York. The disappointment for me is this effectively rules out the far more sensible expansion into new continental European markets for the time being.

 

[profitius]

There is a news item emanating from Scotland on this matter indicating:

- 1x Canadian and 1x American team to join for season 2018/19
- a potential connection to or alignment with a new US league (presumably the Major rugby tournament).
- Pro12 broken into two conferences
- requires sanction of US and Canadian unions
- New York and Toronto speculated as possible locations

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...ms-to-go-west-in-american-expansion-1-4370290

From a personal perspective I find this news does nothing to remove my sense that the Canadian and US unions are wilfully undermining PRO Rugby and feeding negative stories about it as they have a vested interest in it failing because they have had their heads turned last year by Pro12.

Still, Pro12 franchises would be better than nothing assuming they have the sense to not play in freezing New York. The disappointment for me is this effectively rules out the far more sensible expansion into new continental European markets for the time being.

They're some of the top teams in Europe!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I know that!

I was speaking from a North American perspective. I think they are mad not to try and get things sorted it with the extremely wealthy Schoninger of PRO rugby. Pro 12 or the mooted MAJOR rugby competion in the US are distant second choices in my opinion and more prone to collapse.

 

[profitius]

I know that!

I was speaking from a North American perspective. I think they are mad not to try and get things sorted it with the extremely wealthy Schoninger of PRO rugby. Pro 12 or the mooted MAJOR rugby competion in the US are distant second choices in my opinion and more prone to collapse.

Should be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I know that!

I was speaking from a North American perspective. I think they are mad not to try and get things sorted it with the extremely wealthy Schoninger of PRO rugby. Pro 12 or the mooted MAJOR rugby competion in the US are distant second choices in my opinion and more prone to collapse.

Schoninger is a snake and I don't want him involved in our domestic rugby

give me pro 12 or a natural evolution to where clubs get tv contracts for their games and they can turn professional

wouldn't mind pro12 just being a stepping stone towards the latter

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

From what I have read Schoninger has been found guilty of precisely nothing other than teething problems around swift payments and probably not being the most agreeable person to work with. His line that everyone who honioured their contract has been paid in full has not been adequately contradicted and he has gone on the record to respond to every allegation that is mysteriously given coverage in the US rugby press.

Yes, his contracts may not have the most generous of terms and conditions, but the T&Cs were signed up to voluntarily by players and he paid more professional players and coaching staff a decent wage in one year than had been done by the rest of the US in the history of the sport.

I just don't think that people assuming Pro12 is run my superior human specimens are being realistic. If the US and Canada unions want in to Pro12 it will likely be on 12s conditions, which as Italy found in the past, can be pretty brutal.

My first impressions of Tony Rindell, one of the gents affiliated to the "Major" project are massively inferior to my impressions of hard nosed businessman Schoninger. Rindell's main argument against PRO is that the exclusivity arrangement was agreed by the previous head of the US Union and therefore should not be honoured by the current head of the US union. I'm not much of one for name calling but that sounds a damn sight more serpentine than anything Schoninger has ever said or done.

If there is anything fresh on Schoninger about the treatment of Muliaina or players that breached contracy by playing for other clubs then it'd be good to hear it. But I get the sense Pro12 and the US union are actively trying to undermine PRO through their pals in the press.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

nothing to do with his PRO rugby history

when fans learned personal seat licenses he just changed a couple things and represented them as "seat mortgages" he is essentially a sub-prime mortager except instead of houses he does it to seats at sporting events

- - - Updated - - -

his only interest in rugby was he thought it was a place where he could spend relatively little capital and then sell it off... when first season didn't go as well as expected he started to panic

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

How would they play rugby in New York and Toronto during the winter? Would there be a indoor stadium cheap enough to use?

That seems to be the biggest problem in my eyes the winter in NE NA is nasty and to deal with it for 2/3months would be a tough ask for a Compeition with not a huge amount of money.

I can't see the American public caring about a New York team playing a team from Scotland or Wales.

Irish teams would be the only draw.

 

[Groundhog]

How would they play rugby in New York and Toronto during the winter? Would there be a indoor stadium cheap enough to use?

That seems to be the biggest problem in my eyes the winter in NE NA is nasty and to deal with it for 2/3months would be a tough ask for a Compeition with not a huge amount of money.

I can't see the American public caring about a New York team playing a team from Scotland or Wales.

Irish teams would be the only draw.

We can make you rich. We'll change your bum life. When you sign to play us, it's a celebration. You ring back home, you ring your wife – baby, we've done it. We're rich, baby. The Irish made us rich. Break out the red panties.