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Pro12 looking to expand to the East coast of North America (New York)

MidWest? but it is nowhere near the West coast?

Mind blown.....

Saying that I still think it would be pushing it a bit in terms of attendances.

The big ten, which all those schools are members of except Notre dame(penn state wasn't a founder but now is in it) used to be known as the western conference because it was the western part of the eastern seaboard... America so weird with its geographic elitism

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Vancouver? Yeh let's pick the city furthest away from us in Canada.

Houston makes no sense either.

Portland/Seattle and Vancouver would make more sense as a pairing surely?

New York, Philly, Boston, and maybe Chicago are the only options if you want the travel to not be completely ****ing awful and for games to be watched in Europe

Toronto could make sense since the CFL is in the summer and they could play in rogers centre with a grass pitch
 
I've seen the issue of playing in the US in Nov-March being raised a few times, so I'm just raising this point that people seem to be missing and could have a big impact on the non-viability of some of the US regions due to weather:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/1053933/world-rugby-aiming-for-global-season-by-end-of-2016
Essentially, WR wants an international calendar by the end of the year. If the calendar changes to the SH scheduled season, then there shouldn't be a US weather issue (as far as I am aware).
 
I think there is just a healthy degree of scepticism that World Rugby will get its way in that. The 6N seem incredibly hostile to any change for example despite the Irish and Scottish unions seeking keen on some kind of movement.
 
I've seen the issue of playing in the US in Nov-March being raised a few times, so I'm just raising this point that people seem to be missing and could have a big impact on the non-viability of some of the US regions due to weather:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/1053933/world-rugby-aiming-for-global-season-by-end-of-2016
Essentially, WR wants an international calendar by the end of the year. If the calendar changes to the SH scheduled season, then there shouldn't be a US weather issue (as far as I am aware).

From what I gather people are just wanting the 6N's to be moved to April and May, with the club season starting a move earlier.
 
From what I gather people are just wanting the 6N's to be moved to April and May, with the club season starting a move earlier.

Some people but would but they are in the minority and certainly the money men will end up with the big say not the politicos!!
 
Some people but would but they are in the minority and certainly the money men will end up with the big say not the politicos!!

Imo, anyone with a strong emotional stake in a 6N team's performance on the world stage should at least be very tempted by the idea of moving the 6N to be back to back with another international block. I suspect not enough of the 6N unions want it but there's very solid rugby reasons for the move. I suspect the clubs would benefit from not having their internationals coming and go so much as well.
 
I am vehemently against this idea as I don't think it serves the US or Canada's long term interests. Placing one measly team in each country does nothing to grow the sport in either country.

If we are given a similar deal to what the Italians got, I am even more against it. Our Unions should get behind PRO Rugby and help develop it commercially. The attendances in the PRO12 are pretty abysmal tbh and the spectacle of the league takes a backseat to international play.

We need to play the long game and not get in the bed with the Celts, there is commercial enterprise working in Canada and the US actively trying to bring professional rugby to the continent. We don't need inept unions trying to run a professional sport.

Lets look objectively at this proposal for just a second:

1. By North American standards, yes attendances in the Pro12 are terrible, outside the three Irish Provinces, you've got no team that draws over 10k spectators on average. We've got a large number of Junior Hockey (Age 16-21) teams that draw better attendance than the entire Pro12 and also play 3x as many games. They also have smaller rosters and far less oppressive travel Regimes than a trans-atlantic pro rugby competition would have. Even with this some of these teams struggle to break even!

2. So how will the Unions pay for this extravagant competition? Off the backs of their membership which means higher player dues and less money for grassroots development. No other national sporting union in Canada or the US is responsible for the professional game here, not even Hockey Canada, so why does Rugby think it should be different? Professional sport in North America needs deep pockets because the travel distances are massive and competition with other sports is fierce. The Canadian Football League draws on average 25,000 per game (higher than any pro rugby competition) and it struggles to maintain franchises. How will Pro12 fare if it draws a paltry couple of thousand per match?

3. Outside of British Columbia and the US West Coast, rugby is a summer sport here. Playing Rugby in the midwest US or Northern States and Canada will not work. The Pro12 would need to move their season if they hope to capture the North American market.

4. All this to say, the North American sports market is different from Europe and requires a unique approach. We have far less attachment to national identity here and fans wouldn't like their clubs taking a back seat to international development, which is sort if how the unions treat the Pro12 (as a development league). The most important thing would be putting a winning product on the field. The Toulon model would work here, the Pro12 model wouldn't. Being successful in North America also requires putting bums in the seats, so far the popularity of international rugby hasn't really transfered to the club game. Attendances across the board are rather abysmal.
 
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I am vehemently against this idea as I don't think it serves the US or Canada's long term interests. Placing one measly team in each country does nothing to grow the sport in either country.

If we are given a similar deal to what the Italians got, I am even more against it. Our Unions should get behind PRO Rugby and help develop it commercially. The attendances in the PRO12 are pretty abysmal tbh and the spectacle of the league takes a backseat to international play.

We need to play the long game and not get in the bed with the Celts, there is commercial enterprise working in Canada and the US actively trying to bring professional rugby to the continent. We don't need inept unions trying to run a professional sport.

Lets look objectively at this proposal for just a second:

1. By North American standards, yes attendances in the Pro12 are terrible, outside the three Irish Provinces, you've got no team that draws over 10k spectators on average. We've got a large number of Junior Hockey (Age 16-21) teams that draw better attendance than the entire Pro12 and also play 3x as many games. They also have smaller rosters and far less oppressive travel Regimes than a trans-atlantic pro rugby competition would have. Even with this some of these teams struggle to break even!

2. So how will the Unions pay for this extravagant competition? Off the backs of their membership which means higher player dues and less money for grassroots development. No other national sporting union in Canada or the US is responsible for the professional game here, not even Hockey Canada, so why does Rugby think it should be different? Professional sport in North America needs deep pockets because the travel distances are massive and competition with other sports is fierce. The Canadian Football League draws on average 25,000 per game (higher than any pro rugby competition) and it struggles to maintain franchises. How will Pro12 fare if it draws a paltry couple of thousand per match?

3. Outside of British Columbia and the US West Coast, rugby is a summer sport here. Playing Rugby in the midwest US or Northern States and Canada will not work. The Pro12 would need to move their season if they hope to capture the North American market.

4. All this to say, the North American sports market is different from Europe and requires a unique approach. We have far less attachment to national identity here and fans wouldn't like their clubs taking a back seat to international development, which is sort if how the unions treat the Pro12 (as a development league). The most important thing would be putting a winning product on the field. The Toulon model would work here, the Pro12 model wouldn't. Being successful in North America also requires putting bums in the seats, so far the popularity of international rugby hasn't really transfered to the club game. Attendances across the board are rather abysmal.

i'd much rather see a north american club championship than a pro12 team or even the expansion and continuation of PRO Rugby

i say have the top tier clubs play at night so that those of us involved at the grassroots level can go watch and pay for tickets of the big clubs... the national unions could cover the cost of traveling of the top clubs so that they could expand the geographic areas of the top competitions

i don't t think PRO Rugby is going to last more than a couple years
 
If you didn't have the option of Pro Rugby I wouldn't dismiss this proposal out of hand in either Canada or the US. The Pro12 is at a good standard outside of World Cup years and is growing pretty fast in terms of attendances (which are in part caused by unique challenges in Scotland (geography and stadia) and a botched introduction of top tier rugby to Italy.

For me, the biggest issue for any prospective country thinking about joining is your point about Italy. The main people to blame for the failure of Italian rugby to catch fire is of course, Italians. However, Pro12 organisers have shown a complete failure to grasp the fact that you need to subsidise, assist and nurture clubs from new territories in the short term in order to profit from them financially in the long term. Instead Pro12 essentially taxed them, abusing their position as the only available option for Italian club rugby outside of their own national league.

I find it embarrassing that despite a couple of hiccups, the guys running PRO rugby, with limited or no rugby knowledge, seem to instinctively run their organisation more professionally than Pro12, at least in terms of when considering expansion.

If I was the Canadian or US rugby unions I'd only agree to this if Pro12s existing clubs agreed to distribute some of their star players to my roster and pay their wages. Making me competitive on day one (like the NFLs Panthers and Jaguar franchises). Pro12 are reeking of desperation and you could negotiate from a very strong position. If it doesn't work out you'd hopefully have PRO rugby to fall back on.
 
TBF to the Italians it is hard getting behind a team that gets thumped every weekend esp if you are new to the sport.

For rugby to kick off in America it needs a big movement @ High school and College level IMO.

For it to work it would prob need a american style expansion draft, (Would be interesting to work but doubt the other teams would go for it)
Would be alright if they could lure back some american players and snatch some fringe talent in Europe, Aus, NZ and SA.
Durutalo, Mcginity, Manoa, Scully, Wyles, Barrett would be a decent start to a team maybe lure Ebner from the NFL.

But it would need money.
 
TBF to the Italians it is hard getting behind a team that gets thumped every weekend esp if you are new to the sport.

For rugby to kick off in America it needs a big movement @ High school and College level IMO.

For it to work it would prob need a american style expansion draft, (Would be interesting to work but doubt the other teams would go for it)
Would be alright if they could lure back some american players and snatch some fringe talent in Europe, Aus, NZ and SA.
Durutalo, Mcginity, Manoa, Scully, Wyles, Barrett would be a decent start to a team maybe lure Ebner from the NFL.

But it would need money.

high school rugby is pretty strong right now but the problem is getting those kids to play at the next level

rugby is almost exclusively a spring sport so that kids who play soccer and gridiron in the fall can play rugby in the spring

it's just that gridiron and soccer have more college scholarships

we need to push the clubs so that they can become community institutions that in turn support youth rugby in their area

i know Schuylkill River exiles (philly's d1 men's club) sponsor a U23 team over the summer for 7s, I'd like to see all the D1 clubs have U23 teams during the XV season
 
high school rugby is pretty strong right now but the problem is getting those kids to play at the next level

rugby is almost exclusively a spring sport so that kids who play soccer and gridiron in the fall can play rugby in the spring

it's just that gridiron and soccer have more college scholarships

we need to push the clubs so that they can become community institutions that in turn support youth rugby in their area

i know Schuylkill River exiles (philly's d1 men's club) sponsor a U23 team over the summer for 7s, I'd like to see all the D1 clubs have U23 teams during the XV season
Okay,

I mean on paper it would be cool for North America to have a system where a Pro 12 team is fed by a Pro rugby league which in turn is feed by College and DI clubs but how far off they are from that.

More International Club rugby on TV should help some momentum but i'm just not sure.............
 
Okay,

I mean on paper it would be cool for North America to have a system where a Pro 12 team is fed by a Pro rugby league which in turn is feed by College and DI clubs but how far off they are from that.

More International Club rugby on TV should help some momentum but i'm just not sure.............

the biggest problem is that people who really like rugby in this country never separate themselves from the club they played for... except for the very few who go on to become referees

why watch a game online or on TC when you can go support your own club (even if they play at a low level) or even play in the B side game(which old boys do all the time)... america has a strong rugby culture but we are very loyal to those who introduced us to the game and the clubs we were members of
 
No poop That the AP isn't looking to franchise to the US, what would be the point?

Imagine if USA had franchise teams in Pro12, Super rugby and AP lol what a cluster fuk
 
No poop That the AP isn't looking to franchise to the US, what would be the point?

Imagine if USA had franchise teams in Pro12, Super rugby and AP lol what a cluster fuk

if i ever become a millionaire i'm gonna do that

same 40 guys too

super rugby during summer
pro12 friday
premiership saturday
top 14 sunday

i'll make toulon's fixture list look player friendly
 
Why waste your money on 40 why not just leave it at 32 players.

And make sure they can't play internationals to you know for player welfare reasons.
 
Why waste your money on 40 why not just leave it at 32 players.

And make sure they can't play internationals to you know for player welfare reasons.

i need 40 so when i let them go play internationals i still have a starting XV plus two subs... gotta put country first (only for world cup and tests against tier 1 nations however)
 
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