[November Tests 2017 EOYT] Wales vs. New Zealand (25/11/2017)

[The Jones Boy]

If you stopped every moment of a rugby game and drew lines you'd end up with a Jackson Pollock creation.
One was fine, one was questionable.
Together they made a wall and the Welsh player threw himself at it to try and milk a penalty or a card.
Sad.
If the referee gave something there you would be wondering very hard if he was on the take.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If you stopped every moment of a rugby game and drew lines you'd end up with a Jackson Pollock creation.
One was fine, one was questionable.
Together they made a wall and the Welsh player threw himself at it to try and milk a penalty or a card.
Sad.
If the referee gave something there you would be wondering very hard if he was on the take.

Well yeah, I'm obviously not suggesting that's what we should do, just that once you actually look at the line the prop runs for more than a second he's not running directly towards where the ball will land. In point of fact he's drawn an arc that takes him through the gap the wales player will be running into and on his current trajectory is headed for the corner flag.
Also, how did the Wales runner 'throw' himself at it? He continued running and kept his feet from memory which is more than can be said for the prop.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

If you stopped every moment of a rugby game and drew lines you'd end up with a Jackson Pollock creation.
One was fine, one was questionable.
Together they made a wall and the Welsh player threw himself at it to try and milk a penalty or a card.
Sad.
If the referee gave something there you would be wondering very hard if he was on the take.

us kiwis cant really have a go at anyone for trying to get a penalty, A Smith fires the ball at lazy runners a couple of times a game trying to get penalties

 

[RedruthRFC]

Well yeah, I'm obviously not suggesting that's what we should do, just that once you actually look at the line the prop runs for more than a second he's not running directly towards where the ball will land.

Are you advocating penalising players who misjudge where the ball will land? Is there anything to say that players must run towards where they think the ball will land? Not that I'm aware of. Surely it's in players' best interests to run towards where they predict that they will be most useful by the time they get there.

 

[RedruthRFC]

us kiwis cant really have a go at anyone for trying to get a penalty, A Smith fires the ball at lazy runners a couple of times a game trying to get penalties

I think most people can make their peace with that now after his visit from karma on Saturday!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Are you advocating penalising players who misjudge where the ball will land? Is there anything to say that players must run towards where they think the ball will land? Not that I'm aware of. Surely it's in players' best interests to run towards where they predict that they will be most useful by the time they get there.

Players get penalised for incompetence in the scrum all the time or picking up a ball that's been knocked on through instinct, or misjudging a tackle and going high etc... If they predict it's going to the wrong place and obstruct an attacker it should be a penalty.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If you stopped every moment of a rugby game and drew lines you'd end up with a Jackson Pollock creation.
One was fine, one was questionable.
Together they made a wall and the Welsh player threw himself at it to try and milk a penalty or a card.
Sad.
If the referee gave something there you would be wondering very hard if he was on the take.

The issues isn't whether or not a ref should stop the game or not, it's whether the incident actually occurred or not. In the grand scheme of things it was minor and one of those many silly little ****ly penalties that occur all game, this is more about Smartcooky deciding to be a complete arse about it when I have very good foundations for saying it was obstruction. It does not just require changing line. For example if a winger kicks the ball and runs down the touch line, another player who runs in a straight line diagonally across them and off the field resulting in them running into the back of them would be an obstruction. You could also argue that both ABs did change their lines, the No. 1 in particular takes a huge, sweeping turn until he has turned across the line of the Welsh runner, that's a pretty big change of direction. I mean you can look at the aerial view, the AB number 1 moves further across the pitch than he does along it.

https://imgur.com/a/OwZ58

First pic at point of kick, 2nd at point of contact with the red showing how AB number 1 has moved in that time. He has gone sideways across the pitch into the line of the Welsh runner and has barely moved in the actual direction of the ball...

 

[RedruthRFC]

Players get penalised for incompetence in the scrum all the time or picking up a ball that's been knocked on through instinct, or misjudging a tackle and going high etc... If they predict it's going to the wrong place and obstruct an attacker it should be a penalty.

That doesn't really answer my question - this is irrelevant if the laws don't say that you need to be heading within half a degree of where the ball lands.

 

[Derpus]

Players get penalised for incompetence in the scrum all the time or picking up a ball that's been knocked on through instinct, or misjudging a tackle and going high etc... If they predict it's going to the wrong place and obstruct an attacker it should be a penalty.

Jesus, you'd need to sit them down in an interrogation room to determine where they 'predicted' the ball was going to go. It's just not obstruction if he's running towards the ball. It never will be.

 

[Zapphod]

Players get penalised for incompetence in the scrum all the time or picking up a ball that's been knocked on through instinct, or misjudging a tackle and going high etc... If they predict it's going to the wrong place and obstruct an attacker it should be a penalty.

Have you considered watching American Football, it takes them 4 hours to play a 1 hour game Christ only knows how long it would take to get through a game of rugby if they started doing that.

The issues isn't whether or not a ref should stop the game or not, it's whether the incident actually occurred or not. In the grand scheme of things it was minor and one of those many silly little ****ly penalties that occur all game, this is more about Smartcooky deciding to be a complete arse about it when I have very good foundations for saying it was obstruction. It does not just require changing line. For example if a winger kicks the ball and runs down the touch line, another player who runs in a straight line diagonally across them and off the field resulting in them running into the back of them would be an obstruction. You could also argue that both ABs did change their lines, the No. 1 in particular takes a huge, sweeping turn until he has turned across the line of the Welsh runner, that's a pretty big change of direction. I mean you can look at the aerial view, the AB number 1 moves further across the pitch than he does along it.

https://imgur.com/a/OwZ58

First pic at point of kick, 2nd at point of contact with the red showing how AB number 1 has moved in that time. He has gone sideways across the pitch into the line of the Welsh runner and has barely moved in the actual direction of the ball...

Ok, as this argument is becoming almost as pointless as baseball how about we find compromise to make the issue go away, I am suggesting we change the result and award a penalty try after all I am sure he was going to beat three players to a ball 20 metres away even though one of those players was pretty much already at it and had nothing to do with the incident at all, lets just suspend reality for the 30 seconds around that incident.

Hey I will even chip in the 2 point conversion free of charge.

Congratulations you still lost by 8, can we move on now?

Now anything else you would like to discuss such as the failure to use arms in the attempted tackle as Naholo scored his try?

Ah the joy of being deliberately obtuse and pedantic I havent done that in ages, I can see why you seem to like it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That doesn't really answer my question - this is irrelevant if the laws don't say that you need to be heading within half a degree of where the ball lands.

He was so far off half a degree, so far off, Evans suitably bends his run and still hits the prop.

Amazing that three people missed my point entirely.

 

[smartcooky]

Have you considered watching American Football, it takes them 4 hours to play a 1 hour game Christ only knows how long it would take to get through a game of rugby if they started doing that.

Ok, as this argument is becoming almost as pointless as baseball how about we find compromise to make the issue go away, I am suggesting we change the result and award a penalty try after all I am sure he was going to beat three players to a ball 20 metres away even though one of those players was pretty much already at it and had nothing to do with the incident at all, lets just suspend reality for the 30 seconds around that incident.

Hey I will even chip in the 2 point conversion free of charge.

Congratulations you still lost by 8, can we move on now?

Now anything else you would like to discuss such as the failure to use arms in the attempted tackle as Naholo scored his try?

Ah the joy of being deliberately obtuse and pedantic I havent done that in ages, I can see why you seem to like it.

 

[Groundhog]

Why are you all talking about where they thought the ball was going to land? It's irrelevant imo. What's obvious is that the prop significantly changed his running line, which led to the obstruction of the chasing player, regardless of his intentions. It's a sure penalty for me. The prop doesn't have to move out of the way, but likewise can't move that far into the way of the chasing player if that wasn't the route he was already in.

 

[Da Grappla]

Those two fellows wall building skills would make a great impression on Donald Trump

Clear obstruction.