[November Tests 2017 EOYT] Ireland vs. Argentina (25/11/2017)

[munstermuffin]

B-b-b-b-but Gerry Thornley reported my team. He's never once been wrong.

Being honest he probably is right. Independent is lazy journalism

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

http://www.the42.ie/rory-oloughlin-leinster-dragons-3711961-Nov2017/

Nice interview with RO'L outlining what its like to be on the verge of a Schmidt squad, no one is missing out and not being told why and the players know exactly what the Joe Show wants of them. From a Ster point of view I hope he establishes himself, him and Larmour on the wings with Lowe at 15 has me salivating!

 

[big ginger 8]

No Luke McGrath, Ryan or A Byrne for Leinster points to some legitimacy to the rumours.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Henshaw reportedly out with a hamstring injury, Farrell in... I fail to see what Schmidt sees in Farrell and think Stu and Bundee would be far better. Hope Rob is good for two weeks' time.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 77 caps
14. Adam Byrne (UCD/Leinster)*
13. Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 1 cap
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 1 cap
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 67 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 58 caps

1.Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 72 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 105 caps Captain
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 18 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 3 caps
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 33 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 41 caps
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 50 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 17 caps

Replacements
16. James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 21 caps
18. John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10 caps
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 52 caps
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
22. Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster) 6 caps
23. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 5 caps

I like it a lot, hope to see Byrne in space (don't include Farrell in many moves) and that front five is beefy. J McGarth needs to recover from the Lions pronto if he doesn't want a battle for a 23 spot come the RWC because Healy is in the driving seat for the 1 shirt. Hopefully we build a lead and L McGarth gets some good minutes, I think we'd be best served with him reaching his potential as number 2 and Murray's replacement 5-6 years from now.

 

[big ginger 8]

Rob Kearney; Adam Byrne, Chris Farrell, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tadhg Furlong; James Ryan, Iain Henderson; Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, CJ Stander.

Reps: James Tracy, Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan, Devin Toner, Rhys Ruddock, Luke McGrath, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

#conservative

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Rob Kearney; Adam Byrne, Chris Farrell, Bundee Aki, Jacob Stockdale; Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tadhg Furlong; James Ryan, Iain Henderson; Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien, CJ Stander.

Reps: James Tracy, Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan, Devin Toner, Rhys Ruddock, Luke McGrath, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

#conservative

Ya basic

10 little dudes with 10 caps or less, 1 debut... WedontknowhowtoprepareforRWCs#

 

[big ginger 8]

Ya basic

10 little dudes with 10 caps or less, 1 debut... WedontknowhowtoprepareforRWCs#

9 players with less than 6 sounds better.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

9 players with less than 6 sounds better.

Little Dudes sounds better than players
10 is a more rounded number than 6
10 to 10 is more symmetrical than 9 to 6

I'm winning on every level bro.

 

[Groundhog]

"Ireland have played 22 games since losing to Argentina in the World Cup quarter-final, using 72 players - 31 making their debuts. Of the 23 who faced the Pumas, just eight are likely to feature again this weekend"
Eh I meant to post that before the squad was announced. Someone else figure out how it holds up now.
Biggest surprise for me is Farrell. That centre combo are not wildly creative, offloading aside. Rate Aki's handling etc higher than most, but it's not a centre combo I have huge faith in to bring our wings into the game. Feel a guy like Scannell could make hay with Aki outside him, but it's nitpicking. Still the most exciting team we've seen in ages. Very young profile and whatever happens in 2019, it's unlikely to be our depth that lets us down again unless we get seriously shafted.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

"Ireland have played 22 games since losing to Argentina in the World Cup quarter-final, using 72 players - 31 making their debuts. Of the 23 who faced the Pumas, just eight are likely to feature again this weekend"
Eh I meant to post that before the squad was announced. Someone else figure out how it holds up now.
Biggest surprise for me is Farrell. That centre combo are not wildly creative, offloading aside. Rate Aki's handling etc higher than most, but it's not a centre combo I have huge faith in to bring our wings into the game. Feel a guy like Scannell could make hay with Aki outside him, but it's nitpicking. Still the most exciting team we've seen in ages. Very young profile and whatever happens in 2019, it's unlikely to be our depth that lets us down again unless we get seriously shafted.

2015 team with players missing through injury/suspension in brackets:

IRELAND: Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster); Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) (Jared Payne), Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht), Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) (Andrew Trimble); Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) (JSEX), Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster); Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) (Paul O'Connell), Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) (POM), Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) (SOB), Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) (capt).

Replacements: Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster), Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Nathan White (Connacht), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster), Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster), Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster).

10 of those are playing this week, if we were injury/Criminal charges free I'd imagine 14 would be in the 23.

Of the 13 who didn't/wouldn't have played this game there's a total of 96 caps which is an average of less than 8 caps. Outside of this 23 Sweetnam, McCloskey, Carbery, Marmion, Conan, Dillane, Treadwell, Porter and Herring, all of whom have less than 10 caps bar Marmalade, were also used this Autumn while a loada lads who fit that bill played in summer. Joe Schmidt builds.

 

[profitius]

With Farrell and Byrne starting, I'd say the Argues might fancy their chances of scoring a few tries. I don't think either of them deserves to be there.

I'm happy to see James Ryan get a start. He is oozing with talent but he does seem to pick up a lot of knocks. Himself and Stockdale really boost the overall talent of the squad with the likes of Aki, Sweetnam, Porter, Conway, McCloskey etc boosting the depth.

It's a big game for Tracy. If he doesn't throw well in this game he might not be seen for a while. Herring, while lacking physicality is a decent thrower at least. I think Niall Scannell is comfortable ahead of those two and will challenge Best in the next year or so. Speaking of Best, we're lucky to have him!

Ireland being 15pt favourites is a bit extreme given the backline. It should be a close enough game I'd say. I'd say they'll try using the high ball to Adam Byrne a lot but I hope they don't overdo it. The Argentines will be expecting it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

With Farrell and Byrne starting, I'd say the Argues might fancy their chances of scoring a few tries. I don't think either of them deserves to be there.

I'm happy to see James Ryan get a start. He is oozing with talent but he does seem to pick up a lot of knocks. Himself and Stockdale really boost the overall talent of the squad with the likes of Aki, Sweetnam, Porter, Conway, McCloskey etc boosting the depth.

It's a big game for Tracy. If he doesn't throw well in this game he might not be seen for a while. Herring, while lacking physicality is a decent thrower at least. I think Niall Scannell is comfortable ahead of those two and will challenge Best in the next year or so. Speaking of Best, we're lucky to have him!

Ireland being 15pt favourites is a bit extreme given the backline. It should be a close enough game I'd say. I'd say they'll try using the high ball to Adam Byrne a lot but I hope they don't overdo it. The Argentines will be expecting it.

High ball to Byrne? He destroyed Munster in the air, definitely not his weakness!

 

[Groundhog]

He hardly destroyed Munster in the air come on. My concern is not his chasing ability or actual ability under the high ball, but his positioning against kicks, soft defence in general and the fact I don't even think he's the better than Daly etc at the moment. This will stand to him as a player, and at the very least he's unlikely to get burned on the outside. Agree with Muff that he and Farrell haven't earned this, but it's not really a merit based selection it's potential based, which people have crucified Schmidt for in the past, so I'll have faith. If we put the physical gifts Byrne and Farrell have onto a grafter like Darragh Fanning we'd have a surefire Lions captain on our hands.

 

[munstermuffin]

B-b-b-b-but Gerry Thornley reported my team. He's never once been wrong.

Being honest he probably is right. Independent is lazy journalism

High ball to Byrne? He destroyed Munster in the air, definitely not his weakness!

He knocked on few times against us and more so his positioning was what hurts him more than his catching or competing. Again I've no problem with him playing though. It's only way of seeing if he has the game for this level. My biggest gripe is more Kearney not even because he hasn't earned it or is good enough but more it ideal time to develop a new option

 

[JJFlash]

Ireland by a multiple of 3 to the power of a multiple of 5.

So, 1-0 to Ireland?

 

[Groundhog]

So, 1-0 to Ireland?

Hey a win's a win.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

He knocked on few times against us and more so his positioning was what hurts him more than his catching or competing. Again I've no problem with him playing though. It's only way of seeing if he has the game for this level. My biggest gripe is more Kearney not even because he hasn't earned it or is good enough but more it ideal time to develop a new option

To be honest I don't think Byrne has much issues in the backfield, he covers very well. Destroyed may not have been the word but he was dominant and had a very positive effect. He's a terrible defender against players with ball in hand and usually seems to completely guess what he has to do and its cost Leinster again and again since the Scarlets exposed him to beat us, hopefully Joe has him drilled.

Kearney had to be in, Argentina must be respected despite what has been said on this thread and a back three with less than 10 caps between them would be far too big a risk. Hopefully we open up a lead and Conway comes on for him but he's number one until anyone takes their chance in a tier 1 international to displace him (Zebo had many chances and mixed the sublime with the ridiculous again and again, Payne was needed at 13 and wasn't irreplaceable in SA) this is a tier 1 game with an experimental and inexperienced squad but the positions where mistakes can be hugely costly, 15, 9 and 10 have bags of experience which will only help the younger lads and make room for to test the waters for a new 15 in the future. It'll be Conway or Stockdale who will have plenty of caps and know the role from working closely with RK too, it'll happen when needed, its not right now.

 

[petite]

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'd have liked to see de la Fuente start, but otherwise I like the Puma 9-15. Irelands pack will limit the opportunities of the Pumas though. But this game is not a done deal. Even though it was only Italy you'd imagine coming off a victory might give the Pumas a wee lift.