New Scrum: Who will be favored?

[profitius]

As one article said, it's going to be the return of the Fatties!! It makes me reminisce about players like Os Du Randt, Richard Bands, Olo Brown and Kees Meeuws.

The heavier pack will definitely benefit from this. since the hit is gone, both teams will start with no advantage, and then the heavier pack starts to push, more weight vs. less weight... Technique will only help you up to a certain point. from there onwards, strength will be the main component.

IMO technique will win out over power easily. Technical props can nullify the power of the bigger men and as well as that the push will be down to the whole pack pushing in unison.


I find the Australian article confusing.

''Whereas now, it's going to become a more technical scrummaging area and that's where our guys will be able to adapt and get into a good position off the engagement. It will be a lot more about combination.''

......

''Over the past couple of years, teams have hit, put the ball in straight away and it's been a real power thing off the engagement.
''Now it's going to come down to guys being able to actually generate power from a standing start. So big strong guys like [Anae], if they can get their technique right, should be able to prosper.''

That Aussie coach seems confident but I wouldn't be if I was him. Like SmartCooky I think leaving out Ben Robinson is a mistake.


I think SA rely on size and Australia rely on being smart AKA cheating. Argentina could benefit most but England annihilated them in the scrums just a few months ago so for me I think NZ will benefit most but like everyone else I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Jaguares]

IMO technique will win out over power easily. Technical props can nullify the power of the bigger men and as well as that the push will be down to the whole pack pushing in unison.


I find the Australian article confusing.





That Aussie coach seems confident but I wouldn't be if I was him. Like SmartCooky I think leaving out Ben Robinson is a mistake.


I think SA rely on size and Australia rely on being smart AKA cheating. Argentina could benefit most but England annihilated them in the scrums just a few months ago so for me I think NZ will benefit most but like everyone else I'm not 100% sure.

Argentina played with an alternate team in recent tests against England, didn't use their best forwards as Fernandez Lobbe and Patricio Albacete. That's not the real Argentina Scrum. Now we will see their true scrum.

Regards

 

[profitius]

I thought the scrums were good today. If policed properly hopefully they'll clean up that area of the game and reward the better scrummagers.

 

[Big Ewis]

very, very interesting. Thanks for posting..
but he talks about the Pumas B scrum against England...it's good that even that is a concern for them, but obviously they'll be fine in TRC with the premier Pumas squad.

We haven't seen the Pumas dominate in scrums in a while, it's true. But they've held their own too I mean they don't exactly get destroyed.

 

[Superalexmarket]

And who has the best scrum of the world now? Ehh??

 

[The Jones Boy]

Unity of the tight five will be the key.
With the hit largely removed from the equation the new issue will be the combined thrust of the tight five from the point they are allowed to turn on the heat.

 

[Big Ewis]

BUMP

the article and most people seemed to think the absence of the "hit" and new scrum rules would benefit smaller, more technical guys and disadvantage the bigger, larger specimens. After some time with the new laws, who would you say you feel has really benefited from this ? I feel a lot of the larger guys have, Debaty, Ducalcon, Figallo, Mike Ross, Geoff Cross, Carl Hayman, Kepu. I've seen an increase in all these guys' ability scrummaging.
This has been discussed widely on these pages, but Domingo and Mas, known as technical, 'smaller' front rowers, have both suffered from the new rules and have come out and admitted it.
The New Zealand scrum, with Woodcock and Owen Franks both of the bigger kind at 1m85 and 120kg, seem to have not benefited from the laws.

I guess it's individual, some guys manage better than others in spite of size and what not, but I have noted a general tendency of the larger guys benefiting from a new found comfort and upperhand at scrum-time they did not possess previously. I mean when you see, every game, a struggling Thomas Domingo coming off and Vincent Debaty come in and all of a sudden the French scrum's dominant, you know something's up.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

BUMP

the article and most people seemed to think the absence of the "hit" and new scrum rules would benefit smaller, more technical guys and disadvantage the bigger, larger specimens. After some time with the new laws, who would you say you feel has really benefited from this ? I feel a lot of the larger guys have, Debaty, Ducalcon, Figallo, Mike Ross, Geoff Cross, Carl Hayman, Kepu. I've seen an increase in all these guys' ability scrummaging.
This has been discussed widely on these pages, but Domingo and Mas, known as technical, 'smaller' front rowers, have both suffered from the new rules and have come out and admitted it.
The New Zealand scrum, with Woodcock and Owen Franks both of the bigger kind at 1m85 and 120kg, seem to have not benefited from the laws.

I guess it's individual, some guys manage better than others in spite of size and what not, but I have noted a general tendency of the larger guys benefiting from a new found comfort and upperhand at scrum-time they did not possess previously. I mean when you see, every game, a struggling Thomas Domingo coming off and Vincent Debaty come in and all of a sudden the French scrum's dominant, you know something's up.

That basically sums up my perception as well but that is the opinion of an ex-winger so is worth as close too nothing as String theory.

 

[Big Ewis]

That basically sums up my perception as well but that is the opinion of an ex-winger so is worth as close too nothing as String theory.

yeah ? What d'you do now, eat burgers ??
Yeah dude I've never scrummaged in my life, I'm just trying to add the pieces together, no claiming I know my shiit or wtvr...but there is definitely a bit of that, the smaller technical ones at a disadvantage and the larger, once pretty useless props (well, not 'useless', but...) in a serendipitous position of power at scroom time.

 

[Thingimubob]

Actually quite surprised me that Adam Jones has struggled with the new laws, always saw him as a tight head who'd benefit from less of a hit, but he's really struggled this year. On the flip side, the change massively helped a lot of young props coming through the Welsh system. Samson Lee has had an outstanding season for the Scarlets, leading to him starting the 2nd test vs South Africa. Looking forward to seeing how the u20's props step up after having a dominating a lot of opponents at that level too.

 

[Feicarsinn]

That basically sums up my perception as well but that is the opinion of an ex-winger so is worth as close too nothing as String theory.

I like this post as it ridicules string theory, of which I am not a fan. Kudos to you.

 

[Big Ewis]

@ Thing:
indeed, same here...totally puts a huge asterisk on my stance. My explanation about Adam Jones is that he's on the way down anyways, he's 33 and that's often when props start dropping big time in form. That's exactly the age Phil Vickery was on the 2009 Lions tour with his infamous encounter against Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira in the scrum.
Same goes for Nicolas Mas. He's 34, and his body just couldn't take all that strain this year, started the first game in Aus, was on the bench in Test 2, and didn't play at all in Test 3.
Then there's the Carl Hayman case...was always a very dominant tighthead, which was somewhat of an anomaly to start with given his dimensions: 1m95, 120kg. Props that size usually struggled intermittently in the scrum with positioning, etc...he's sort of always been this rock in there, and he's 35 in a couple of months and was still pushing back everything you'd put in front of him last season...of course he's just that one case, and being physically huge and dominant today totally works with my "theory" anyways..but seriously, what form for a gramps.

 

[big ginger 8]

Bigger props are not always less "technical" Ross is a scrum nerd.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

yeah ? What d'you do now, eat burgers ??
Yeah dude I've never scrummaged in my life, I'm just trying to add the pieces together, no claiming I know my shiit or wtvr...but there is definitely a bit of that, the smaller technical ones at a disadvantage and the larger, once pretty useless props (well, not 'useless', but...) in a serendipitous position of power at scroom time.

I am not impartial to a burger though I generally go for a steak without bread and **** getting in the way. But, yes, at 32 and married I have.. achieved some MASS myself if that is what you were hinting at.

Though being a winger mostly I did have a few games at lock when we had abit of a crisis. But all that taught me was respect for proper tight forwards.