New look England team

[danny]

Surely you would say Ellis is a better scrum half than Gommersal? considering the potential as well as his effective performances in the 6 nations Ellis is the better bet im also the fact Gommersal is close to recieving his pension.
[/b]

Ellis is still injured so Gommersal has to play in the next England game vs Wales. Watched Gommersal vs Glos for Quins and he was very sharp. If it aint broke...................................

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Surely you would say Ellis is a better scrum half than Gommersal? considering the potential as well as his effective performances in the 6 nations Ellis is the better bet im also the fact Gommersal is close to recieving his pension. [/b]

I like my scrum half to actually be able to provide quick service to the players outside him. Harry Ellis, while very athletic, has a slower delivery speed than an arthritic postman with lead weights tied to his feet.

 

[stormmaster1]

<div class='quotemain'> Surely you would say Ellis is a better scrum half than Gommersal? considering the potential as well as his effective performances in the 6 nations Ellis is the better bet im also the fact Gommersal is close to recieving his pension. [/b]

I like my scrum half to actually be able to provide quick service to the players outside him. Harry Ellis, while very athletic, has a slower delivery speed than an arthritic postman with lead weights tied to his feet.

[/b][/quote]



Fair enough, but Ellis is a potential game breaker, and has more future potential than Gommersall. I suspect if Ashton thinks he has a hint of his pre-injury form then he will be ushered into the squad.

 

[Bullitt]

I suspect the only reason Ellis is ushered into the Engand squad will be down to RFU nepotism.

 

[Fa'atau82]

New blood players who should be knocking hard on the door at least for a or another chance are:

Cipriani, Haskell, Allen, Lamb, Foden, Flood, Geraghty and Simpson-Daniel to name but a few. Couple that with a little bit of experience like Shaw, Wilkinson, Gomarsall and some promising caps like Strettle, Easter, Tait and we should have a team that although won't beat the best it will stand us in good stead for seasons to come.

It is also the time to try these players out to see if they are Matt Le Tissier style flops or Michael Owen type trailblazers.

Going from domestic to European club rugby isn't easy and most of those guys have done it ok so far, so the next step can only be full caps, and they can't be much worse than the bunch of old codgers we had during the RWC.

Dallaglio and Vickery these days are like lingering farts for England, they are unpleasant in every way but won't go away quick enough.

 

[stormmaster1]

I suspect the only reason Ellis is ushered into the Engand squad will be down to RFU nepotism. [/b]

He's the only scrum half in England who has proved that he is a threat to the defence. He demolished Scotland single handed. If his running causes enough problems, then he will be ahead of Gommersall. It's not about having a great overall game, it's about doing whatever is neccessary to win.

 

[Cusker]

I rate Ellis as a scrum half. But he is one of those stupid players that sometimes sees red. There is no doubt he is the best running scrum half in England but his passing lets him down. I think Paul Hodgson should be given a chance whenever i see him play his is quality. But tbh i don't know who i would choose between Ellis and Gommersall,depends what team England were playing.

 

[bernie15]

Why not start to nurture younger talent, like for instance John Brake from Northampton.
A year or so in the Saxons and who knows, it'll make or break him.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotemain'> I suspect the only reason Ellis is ushered into the Engand squad will be down to RFU nepotism. [/b]

He's the only scrum half in England who has proved that he is a threat to the defence. He demolished Scotland single handed. If his running causes enough problems, then he will be ahead of Gommersall. It's not about having a great overall game, it's about doing whatever is neccessary to win.

[/b][/quote]

No he didn't. He farted about behind rucks and created 1 try from a reasonable break.Even Wilkinson, Worsley and Grewcock looked good that day.

Danny Care is mile ahead already of Ellis. If he played for a "Fashionable" club instead of Quins he'd already be a shoe-in for the England 9 shirt.

 

[danny]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> I suspect the only reason Ellis is ushered into the Engand squad will be down to RFU nepotism. [/b]

He's the only scrum half in England who has proved that he is a threat to the defence. He demolished Scotland single handed. If his running causes enough problems, then he will be ahead of Gommersall. It's not about having a great overall game, it's about doing whatever is neccessary to win.

[/b][/quote]

No he didn't. He farted about behind rucks and created 1 try from a reasonable break.Even Wilkinson, Worsley and Grewcock looked good that day.

Danny Care is mile ahead already of Ellis. If he played for a "Fashionable" club instead of Quins he'd already be a shoe-in for the England 9 shirt.
[/b][/quote]


The reason Care will not be in the England side to play Wales is he is not ready yet. Whether he makes it in the future only time will tell. You seem to think that just because someone is young and up and coming they should be thrown straight into international rugby. Scrum half is a pivotal position within the team and to expose a developing player such as Care at this stage could set him back years (eg: Taits debut vs Wales).
As for saying Quins is not a fashionable club whose players dont get picked for England is simply daft, what about Strettle, Gommersal,Easter-who do you think they play for?
If you are good enough you will get a chance!

 

[Bullitt]

Explain Simpson-Daniel then? Or why Barkley wnt to France ahead of Flood?

 

[danny]

Explain Simpson-Daniel then? Or why Barkley wnt to France ahead of Flood?
[/b]

England lost patients with S-Daniel due to his illness/injuries. Barkley went instead of Flood due to better defense and place kicking( not saying i agree with either but those are the obvious reasons)
Any more questions ?

 

[mrrod]

My team would be:



1. Sheridan (although I don't rate him as much as many people)

2. Mears

3. Stevens

4. Shaw

5. Kay

6. Haskall

7. Rees

8. Easter

9. Gomarsell (until Ellis returns)

10.Cipriani

11. S-Daniel

12.Wilkinson

13. Hipkiss

14. Strettle

15. Tait

16. ?????

17. Wood

18. Corry

19. Lund

20. Lamb

21. Allen

22. Vanikolo



Wilkinson is there to provide experience in the backs and to take pressure off Cipriani.

Foden would be in at full back if he was fit.

While Hartley is playing in national 1 i feel the step up will be too big.

Corry provides experience and cover in the back row and second row. I feel Peter Short will replace him soon.

Vanikolo - Wildcard but a potential high impact sub which England missed in the world cup.

Hodgson would be in the squad somewhere in case Wilkinson fails to be good.

 

[aikitim]

I agree that Ellis is the better 9 at this point in time, however he still seems to be out of playing shape at this juncture, leaving Gomersal the next best option...

 

[stormmaster1]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> I suspect the only reason Ellis is ushered into the Engand squad will be down to RFU nepotism. [/b]

He's the only scrum half in England who has proved that he is a threat to the defence. He demolished Scotland single handed. If his running causes enough problems, then he will be ahead of Gommersall. It's not about having a great overall game, it's about doing whatever is neccessary to win.

[/b][/quote]

No he didn't. He farted about behind rucks and created 1 try from a reasonable break.Even Wilkinson, Worsley and Grewcock looked good that day.

Danny Care is mile ahead already of Ellis. If he played for a "Fashionable" club instead of Quins he'd already be a shoe-in for the England 9 shirt.
[/b][/quote]



Not seen too much of Danny Care, but the main point about Ellis at the moment, however much you or i may or may not rate him, is that he was No1 choice Scrum Half in the 6N and appeared to be getting Ashtons total support. Since then Gommersall has hit form, but he is a player capable of losing form easily too. There is a good chance that noone will take the No9 jersey as their own, in which case Ellis would be in relatively quickly. I suppose a summer tour spot is more likely for him though.

 

[stormmaster1]

moving on from the scrum half,



Who should be captain? I know Vickery is the obvious choice, but i personally think Stevens should be the tight head. Do we have other options? The few i could think of with leadership skills are Wilko and Borthwick. I'm unsure about some of the other players, what about Shaw?



Maybe Ashton will pick Vickery as captain, but continue to give him 60 mins.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

according to scrum.com Mike Tindall is the suspected choice but i (now) think it'd be a faux pas to include him in the team with some many prospects for inside center, even outside center if Tait is chosen at fullback; which could be a hit or a miss.

I think it'd be pretty foolish to include a myriad of young players with little experience on the field at one time, maybe some of the older (not old) boys to keep the team under wraps and relieve pressure.

Like at least 2 experienced players in the tight five, 2 in the back row considering it's a pretty big part of the modern game, an experienced half back pair but maybe bring on a less experienced pair later on the game, maybe a 12 that can cover in at 10 also for when that happens to relieve some pressure from Cipriani (who is most people first choice), probably tait and barkley (or flood, i always get those two mixed up!) on the inside center, sakey and varndell on the wings would be my choices and a well versed fullback would be an ample choice.

i think englands best shot is to have a 1:2 ratio of new guys to old guys in the first XV for the first game against wales, it'll get new players on the field and won't comprimise the team because of nerves etc.

 

[aikitim]

The team was named today:

England 32-man squad for RBS 6 Nations Championship:

Backs: I Balshaw (Gloucester), D Cipriani (Wasps), M Cueto (Sale Sharks), T Flood (Newcastle), A Gomarsall (Harlequins), C Hodgson (Sale Sharks), J Noon (Newcastle), P Richards (London Irish), P Sackey (Wasps), D Strettle (Harlequins), M Tait (Newcastle), M Tindall (Gloucester), R Wigglesworth (Sale Sharks), J Wilkinson (Newcastle), L Vainikolo (Gloucester).

Forwards: S Borthwick (Bath), T Croft (Leicester), G Chuter (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), N Easter (Harlequins), J Haskell (Wasps), B Kay (Leicester), L Mears (Bath), L Moody (Leicester), T Payne (Wasps), T Rees (Wasps), M Regan (Bristol), S Shaw (Wasps), A Sheridan (Sale Sharks), M Stevens (Bath), P Vickery (Wasps, capt), J Worsley (Wasps).

It seems ashton has stuck with Vickery as his skipper for the team.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

boo f***ing hiss

 

[Ash/blubber]

Vainikolo does make it a new look england squad , although things like this has happened befor i still think he has something about him