New England starting 15?

[Teh Mite]

Charlie Hodgson is the only nternational standard fly-half left standing.

Reminds me of 2003 when the All Blacks only had 1 "international standard" 10 in the shape of Spencer.

Well there was some wet-behind-the-ears bloke tagging along as backup. Quite rightly he never got a chance. What was his name... Cata... Cater... Cartua... Ah, I forget. I don't think he ever amounted to much anyway...

 

[HowieLO6]

You do realise this isn't 2005, right?

He's more than capable in defence.

I'll admit im somewhat tainted, such was the trauma, but from the couple of games i've seen him with Saracens, i'm less than convinced. In no way believe he has any mental fortitude or the appetite for it.

 

[Teh Mite]

I'll admit im somewhat tainted, such was the trauma, but from the couple of games i've seen him with Saracens, i'm less than convinced. In no way believe he has any mental fortitude or the appetite for it.

Capable of tackling? Debatable. Willing to tackle? Ah....

 

[Peat]

Reminds me of 2003 when the All Blacks only had 1 "international standard" 10 in the shape of Spencer.

Well there was some wet-behind-the-ears bloke tagging along as backup. Quite rightly he never got a chance. What was his name... Cata... Cater... Cartua... Ah, I forget. I don't think he ever amounted to much anyway...

Please enlighten me as to which of our young fly-halves has shown the sort of potential needed to slot straight in as a complete international fly-half in three weeks time.

 

[j'nuh]

Please enlighten me as to which of our young fly-halves has shown the sort of potential needed to slot straight in as a complete international fly-half in three weeks time.

Considering the tests we have in 2012, how many of these will come easier than Scotland and Italy at the start of the 6N? Not that I'm underestimating them since both can beat us, but it'll hardly be a baptism of fire and a better introduction than against the likes of Wales/France. In this case, I have absolute faith in Burns to make the step up. Ideally, I'd have him on the bench against Scotland and start against Italy then see where he warrants a place after that. If Flood is injured though, I'm happy to see Burns start against Scotland.

Also, JSD should still play for England. From the games I've seen, he has a similar style of play to Sharples, but seems to create more. Plus, he's "only" 29.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Is Clegg better than burns? i've not seen too much of either of them?
I think the saxons team last year which lancaster looked after had banahan at 12 trinder at 13 and clegg at 10? JTH was on the bench and slotted in a 12. Might be an inslight into his love of a big ball bosher at 12?

 

[j'nuh]

Well, Burns actually plays rugby... he's started most of Gloucester's games this season and has probably been one of, if not our best player. (At least, from what I can tell from the televised games and whispers...) Clegg, on the other hand, isn't getting much of a say in the team whilst Evans is around. I watched him recently, he played okay but missed a lot of goals. (Both Farrell and Burns are very adequate kickers.) I think he's going to have to move on to get some game experience, but I'm not sure where since most of the top teams have established 10s.

 

[RAWWeyman]

Is Clegg better than burns? i've not seen too much of either of them?
I think the saxons team last year which lancaster looked after had banahan at 12 trinder at 13 and clegg at 10? JTH was on the bench and slotted in a 12. Might be an inslight into his love of a big ball bosher at 12?

Nah Banahan was at 12 in the Development squad against the Barbarians last May, with Hodgeson at Fly. The Saxons had Twelvetrees and Trinder in the centres. Turner-Hall filled in at 12/13 from the bench. Anyway, whether he loves 'big boshers' or not, he will pick the team out of the best players we have, and I wouldn't say JTH is our best 12 at the moment, and we have NO 'boshers' who would be a better choice than Barritt, 12Ts, Allen, Farrell etc..

Clegg is good but hasn't had the game time at club level to take the international stage yet (he's been behind Evans). I think if we are going for a slightly less experienced team, then we should at least pick a 10 who gets game time often at a high level. This is why I'd almost certainly have Burns/Farrell ahead of Clegg at the moment as both are frequent starters for Gloucester and Saracens.

To whether he's better than Burns? No, in my opinion. He's got real promise, but Burns' current form/abilty trumps Clegg at them moment. Or so I believe.

 

[j'nuh]

Also, how good a penalty kicker is Hodgson? Farrell always kicks whilst he is on the field for Saracens, and I'm not sure how much practise Hodgson gets now. Could that be a vulnerable spot if we started Hodgson and had no other recognised kicker on the field?

 

[gingergenius]

Please enlighten me as to which of our young fly-halves has shown the sort of potential needed to slot straight in as a complete international fly-half in three weeks time.

1) Owen Farrell
2) Owen Farrell
3) Owen Farrell

despite being (along with Nick Evans) the best fly half in the premiership in the past decade, please enlighten me as to one time when Hodgson has stepped into the England 10 jersey and won a big game for us??? He is no more of a complete international fly half than any other option (the only guy here is Flood).

He takes the ball flat, and his distribution and vision are truly world class. He's a wonderful player to watch. But his goalkicking is hot & cold; his defence is suspect; his pace is gone.

Picking a player like Hodgson to bring stability is a complete misjudgment of his skills. If you want an older guy to steer the team from 10, then you might as well resummon Wilkinson or Goode.

Owen Farrell, on the other hand, is an excellent goalkicker. He's an excellent kicker out of hand. His defence is good. And his temperament, having pulled wins out of the bag a number of times in high pressure situations, is outstanding. He may not be as natural a ballplayer as Flood or Hodgson, but if you're asking for someone to come and step up to the mark, then there's no question that Farrell's up to it.

On a miserable afternoon in Murrayfield, against Scotland, there's a good chance England's pack will be in an arm wrestle. There's a good chance all the ball the backs get will be slow. I live in Edinburgh, and based on this winter so far I can tell you there's a good chance it will be ****ing wet and ****ing windy. I'd rather have O'Gara/ Sexton/ Farrell type players than Cooper/ Cipriani/ Hodgson types every single time for these games.

 

[Peat]

Personally, I believe Owen Farrell has a poor running game and does not release his runners well ball in hand from 10, and I think the statistic that Saracens (a freescoring machine under Hodgson) have scored 2 tries in Farrell's 5 games at fly-half is incredibly damning. I don't think he's ready.

Hodgson isn't complete in that he's inconsistent, but he does have all the skills (juuust about), and he does have experience. If Farrell was capable of releasing his players I'd overlook his running game (particularly for a game like Murrayfield probably will be) and inexperience (he is ridiculously composed), but he isn't. Clegg's not got enough pressure game experience and that kicking misfire against Exeter doesn't help either. I'm not sure about Burns running a game like Murrayfield will be.

I'm not happy about playing Hodgson either tbh. I'd play Flood on crutches if I could. But I'd rather play him then chuck in a youngster right into the deep end. It strikes me as a massive risk to take with players who haven't even proven themselves consistently at Premiership level in all the skills required to be an international fly-half.

 

[HowieLO6]

Personally, I believe Owen Farrell has a poor running game

Hodgson isn't complete in that he's inconsistent, but he does have all the skills

he is ridiculously composed

I'd rather play him then chuck in a youngster right into the deep end. It strikes me as a massive risk to take with players who haven't even proven themselves consistently at Premiership level in all the skills required to be an international fly-half.

With the first point, i'd beg to differ. I'll admit that I've enjoyed his abilities with ball in hand, as well as his angles of attack, better when playing in the centres, but he is infintely more physical that Hodgson with underrated pace. Maybe more of a risk in that respect, but, as mentioned, Hodgson's has all but gone.

Secondly, he has all the attacking skills. Reminds me a little of Catt in that respect. Can pull something out of the bag that few others can. But wheres the composure? As you say, Farrell has this in bucket-loads, a real chip off the old block. Last minute penalty in wet and windy conditions, in front of a hostile crowd? Owen, please.

Lastly, is there an element of Tait-esque fear when it comes to blooding youngsters? That tackle clearly cost him dear, but Farrell clearly has more mental fortitude than most at his young age. Hodgson has never proven himself to have all the skills, so why should the younger blood have to meet such criteria? I'll accept that experience is on Hodgson's side, but lets not make out that his skill set is superior. Its just different to most.

 

[Aedaphon]

Hodgson at 10 and Farrell at 12?

Possibly weak on defence but it'll give us good distribution and more importantly none of the concerns that come with Hodgson's goal kicking.

I'm all for blooding young players at the risk of a few 6 Nations games but I have to stop short at recommending a mid-field with 0 international caps between them.

That said I am genuinely keen to see Farrell, Trinder, Wade and Brown make their England debuts, even if they're coming off the bench. My worst fear is that they'll keep Easter/Tindall/the HMS Banahan around...

 

[Peat]

When blooding a youngster you should be fairly sure that it's not going to backfire, yes. Not in so much as the player's confidence (although that should be remembered) as to keep the media and fans quiet (people still go on about that tackle, and Anthony Allen's missed tackles).

I've never seen it. Maybe I should watch him closely, or watch more Sarries games. But I haven't seen it for Sarries, I haven't seen it for England age-grade, and all the statistics I've seen say I haven't got it wrong. But I shall watch closer next time and have a look.

The composure of Hodgson is inconsistent. He could do it, but he mightn't. Happily, you can always stick Farrell on the bench and bring him in on at 10, 12 (or 13 at a push) and use his kicking to close out a match, and I am in favour of that (big difference starting to coming on imo).

We must agree to differ on Hodgson's skillset. He's far from perfect and the inconsistency is a worry but he's got a superior skillset to any of the young fly-halves.

edit: Aedaphon, without Tuilagi, I don't see how you avoid an international centre line without 0 caps. Anthony Allen I suppose, although 2 caps a long time ago isn't really an improvement.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Clegg is quality, he was brilliant for Quins last week apart from his goal kicking was terrible
Got the hardest of the night but very nearly lost them the game missing the others

Still, he ran the game well and was looking very dangerous - kicking from hand was good too

 

[Teh Mite]

Clegg is utter shite. End of that discussion.

 

[Draggs]

Clegg is utter shite. End of that discussion.

So... He is in then?


OK, OK, I jest.

 

[psychic duck]

Clegg as deputy 10 at Harlequins has been a headline writers dream of late

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Not going to lie Lancaster looks the real deal. Really impressed with the man. England are going to be dangerous this 6 Nations.

 

[RAWWeyman]

Clegg is utter shite. End of that discussion.

Why.

He had a stinker off the tee against Exeter, but otherwise his performance was sound to good. Wouldn't describe him as shite IMHO.