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Match Attendance in the Magners League.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 30 2009, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 30 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lads why did ye join so if ye feel strongly about this why not all VETO it and battle out with the Italian Teams as Bridgend and Neath etc because if ye met a GP team in this era never mind Munster/Leinster/Top 14 team ye'd do well to hold them in this day and age :rolleyes:

Hey Connacht might even get in H'Cup :lol: Althought on 2nd thoughts nobody can go that bad ......... Can they? B)[/b]

well Cardiff did get to the first final of the HEC and Llanelli got to the semis in 2000 so that arguement is pretty redundant.
[/b][/quote]

Munstermuffin makes a valid point imo. Unless the teams were chocked full of foreign players, Wales isn't a large enough country to produce the amount of top quality players needed to sustain 12-14 teams at the top level of the game. Although some of the clubs might have still been competetive i.e. the ones with the money, the majority would struggle and the bottom few would get humiliated by some of the larger teams. Regional rugby was innevitable, and it's already bearing fruit with the success of the Welsh national team and the quality of players coming through the much improved academies regionalism has brought to the table.

Unfortunately it was done all wrong. The legacy of the axing of the Celtic Warriors will continue for many years, although some blaim must be put on the supporters who failed to turn up in enough numbers to keep the club going. After all, they were recieveing the same amount of money from the WRU as the other regions, yet they went bankrupt. I know the same has happened with the Scarlets, yet the WRU bailed them out, but the situation is different. At the time of the Warriors demise, there were 5 regions, and the WRU decided that Wales could in fact make do with 4. This turned out to be true, with it being obvious that at present there isn't enough quality players to make 5 competitive teams. However, with the Scarlets, the WRU couldn't allow 4 to become 3, it would have had a severe impact on the international game in Wales and would have jepordised future growth.

I'm not saying I'm happy with the way things were dealt with, but after making a mess of things to begin with the WRU have probably made the right decisions since. This may anger supprters from Ponty and Bridgend etc. but I find it hard to offer too much sympathy. This brings us back to the supporting Cardiff Blues issue, and how the Blues aren't exacly inticing these discarded supporters into their new spacious stadium.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 30 2009, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 30 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lads why did ye join so if ye feel strongly about this why not all VETO it and battle out with the Italian Teams as Bridgend and Neath etc because if ye met a GP team in this era never mind Munster/Leinster/Top 14 team ye'd do well to hold them in this day and age :rolleyes:

Hey Connacht might even get in H'Cup :lol: Althought on 2nd thoughts nobody can go that bad ......... Can they? B)[/b]

well Cardiff did get to the first final of the HEC and Llanelli got to the semis in 2000 so that arguement is pretty redundant.
[/b][/quote]

Munstermuffin makes a valid point imo. Unless the teams were chocked full of foreign players, Wales isn't a large enough country to produce the amount of top quality players needed to sustain 12-14 teams at the top level of the game. Although some of the clubs might have still been competetive i.e. the ones with the money, the majority would struggle and the bottom few would get humiliated by some of the larger teams. Regional rugby was innevitable, and it's already bearing fruit with the success of the Welsh national team and the quality of players coming through the much improved academies regionalism has brought to the table.

Unfortunately it was done all wrong. The legacy of the axing of the Celtic Warriors will continue for many years, although some blaim must be put on the supporters who failed to turn up in enough numbers to keep the club going. After all, they were recieveing the same amount of money from the WRU as the other regions, yet they went bankrupt. I know the same has happened with the Scarlets, yet the WRU bailed them out, but the situation is different. At the time of the Warriors demise, there were 5 regions, and the WRU decided that Wales could in fact make do with 4. This turned out to be true, with it being obvious that at present there isn't enough quality players to make 5 competitive teams. However, with the Scarlets, the WRU couldn't allow 4 to become 3, it would have had a severe impact on the international game in Wales and would have jepordised future growth.

I'm not saying I'm happy with the way things were dealt with, but after making a mess of things to begin with the WRU have probably made the right decisions since. This may anger supprters from Ponty and Bridgend etc. but I find it hard to offer too much sympathy. This brings us back to the supporting Cardiff Blues issue, and how the Blues aren't exacly inticing these discarded supporters into their new spacious stadium.
[/b][/quote]

You're right that Wales doesn't have the player base to support the 9 teams that went professional. What the WRU did was accelerate the process that I think would have happened naturally anyway after a few seasons. By short cutting the evolutionary route a number of fans have become more alienated than if their team had gone down naturally.

The Blues are actually doing lots to get people into the stadium. Take a look at their website to see details of community events all over the region. Don't forget that when Llanelli & Cardiff became stand alone regions part of the deal, to keep the names, was that initially they didn't receive as much funding as the other 3 regions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindside6 @ Oct 1 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Sep 30 2009, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Sep 30 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lads why did ye join so if ye feel strongly about this why not all VETO it and battle out with the Italian Teams as Bridgend and Neath etc because if ye met a GP team in this era never mind Munster/Leinster/Top 14 team ye'd do well to hold them in this day and age :rolleyes:

Hey Connacht might even get in H'Cup :lol: Althought on 2nd thoughts nobody can go that bad ......... Can they? B)[/b]

well Cardiff did get to the first final of the HEC and Llanelli got to the semis in 2000 so that arguement is pretty redundant.
[/b][/quote]

Munstermuffin makes a valid point imo. Unless the teams were chocked full of foreign players, Wales isn't a large enough country to produce the amount of top quality players needed to sustain 12-14 teams at the top level of the game. Although some of the clubs might have still been competetive i.e. the ones with the money, the majority would struggle and the bottom few would get humiliated by some of the larger teams. Regional rugby was innevitable, and it's already bearing fruit with the success of the Welsh national team and the quality of players coming through the much improved academies regionalism has brought to the table.

Unfortunately it was done all wrong. The legacy of the axing of the Celtic Warriors will continue for many years, although some blaim must be put on the supporters who failed to turn up in enough numbers to keep the club going. After all, they were recieveing the same amount of money from the WRU as the other regions, yet they went bankrupt. I know the same has happened with the Scarlets, yet the WRU bailed them out, but the situation is different. At the time of the Warriors demise, there were 5 regions, and the WRU decided that Wales could in fact make do with 4. This turned out to be true, with it being obvious that at present there isn't enough quality players to make 5 competitive teams. However, with the Scarlets, the WRU couldn't allow 4 to become 3, it would have had a severe impact on the international game in Wales and would have jepordised future growth.

I'm not saying I'm happy with the way things were dealt with, but after making a mess of things to begin with the WRU have probably made the right decisions since. This may anger supprters from Ponty and Bridgend etc. but I find it hard to offer too much sympathy. This brings us back to the supporting Cardiff Blues issue, and how the Blues aren't exacly inticing these discarded supporters into their new spacious stadium.
[/b][/quote]

You're right that Wales doesn't have the player base to support the 9 teams that went professional. What the WRU did was accelerate the process that I think would have happened naturally anyway after a few seasons. By short cutting the evolutionary route a number of fans have become more alienated than if their team had gone down naturally.

The Blues are actually doing lots to get people into the stadium. Take a look at their website to see details of community events all over the region. Don't forget that when Llanelli & Cardiff became stand alone regions part of the deal, to keep the names, was that initially they didn't receive as much funding as the other 3 regions.
[/b][/quote]

Also how do regions feel about this 'A' Competition where region are recognized like it does give ye chance then to compete on a fairer level?

Also lads can ye tell me in Wales do Regions Players have connections with own clubs still like here eg. Paul O'Connell = Young Munster, Munster, Ireland even Howlett and Mafi even De Villiers assigned clubs :lol: Imagine JDV on the UL Bohs team sheet in AIL :lol: :lol:
 
Yes they are, and they do still play every now and then. The likes of Jonathan Thomas would play for a premiership team before returning to the Ospreys after injury. I think the likes of Holah have turned out for his team also, not sure though? Can't think who plays for who though, I know Henson is still a Swansea player, Shane a Neath player.

What do you mean by the 'A' competition? Are you referring to the new format of the EDF Cup, or something different?

I do think there needs to be a new level created beneath the Magners league. All the regions in Wales and Scotland, and the provinces in Ireland should have 'A' teams, and they should play in the same format as the Magners. I still think there is too big a jump between the Premiership and the Magners here in wales, or would people prefer to let the Premiership increase in quality? What's the situation in Ireland and Scotland regaring the development of youngsters?
 
I've never really understood the Irish players affiliations with smaller clubs,
Like does BOD still play for UCD? Because he's on their site 'n' stuff, but it seems weird that he'd play on a team with people who've just turned 18 :S
 
Well I suppose he would if needed. Returning from injury is the perfect example. I know here in Wales most regional players returning from injury will play one or two games for the club he's affiliated with before returning (if deemed necessary that is). It's a way to gain some much needed match fitness before returning to the higher standard of the Magners league.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yes they are, and they do still play every now and then. The likes of Jonathan Thomas would play for a premiership team before returning to the Ospreys after injury. I think the likes of Holah have turned out for his team also, not sure though? Can't think who plays for who though, I know Henson is still a Swansea player, Shane a Neath player.

What do you mean by the 'A' competition? Are you referring to the new format of the EDF Cup, or something different?

I do think there needs to be a new level created beneath the Magners league. All the regions in Wales and Scotland, and the provinces in Ireland should have 'A' teams, and they should play in the same format as the Magners. I still think there is too big a jump between the Premiership and the Magners here in wales, or would people prefer to let the Premiership increase in quality? What's the situation in Ireland and Scotland regaring the development of youngsters?[/b]

No there a new British and Irish Cup starting this season it formatted similar to H'Cup Munster 'A' have Neath, Coventry and Bristol
It involves English Teams in D1
Check http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php

This is how Irish teams blood new players they also play other Irish Teams and think this is similar to your point that the Gap between Magners and AIL/Premiership is too big
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Oct 1 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I've never really understood the Irish players affiliations with smaller clubs,
Like does BOD still play for UCD? Because he's on their site 'n' stuff, but it seems weird that he'd play on a team with people who've just turned 18 :S[/b]

No they do although like of BOD very rarely now but Jerry Flennery played with Shannon last week as preparation for game vs Leinster
 
Ah right, that must be pretty cool to see/good for the other players on the team as well
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes they are, and they do still play every now and then. The likes of Jonathan Thomas would play for a premiership team before returning to the Ospreys after injury. I think the likes of Holah have turned out for his team also, not sure though? Can't think who plays for who though, I know Henson is still a Swansea player, Shane a Neath player.

What do you mean by the 'A' competition? Are you referring to the new format of the EDF Cup, or something different?

I do think there needs to be a new level created beneath the Magners league. All the regions in Wales and Scotland, and the provinces in Ireland should have 'A' teams, and they should play in the same format as the Magners. I still think there is too big a jump between the Premiership and the Magners here in wales, or would people prefer to let the Premiership increase in quality? What's the situation in Ireland and Scotland regaring the development of youngsters?[/b]

No there a new British and Irish Cup starting this season it formatted similar to H'Cup Munster 'A' have Neath, Coventry and Bristol
It involves English Teams in D1
Check http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php

This is how Irish teams blood new players they also play other Irish Teams and think this is similar to your point that the Gap between Magners and AIL/Premiership is too big
[/b][/quote]

We shall drub that group....he says hopefully ;)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Oct 1 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never really understood the Irish players affiliations with smaller clubs,
Like does BOD still play for UCD? Because he's on their site 'n' stuff, but it seems weird that he'd play on a team with people who've just turned 18 :S[/b]

No they do although like of BOD very rarely now but Jerry Flennery played with Shannon last week as preparation for game vs Leinster
[/b][/quote]
********. You might see a regular Leinster or Munster player play once or twice for their club all season.. if they're coming back from injury or have been out of the match squad for a prolonged time. Internationals will hardly play for their clubs in their whole pro careers these days.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
No there a new British and Irish Cup starting this season it formatted similar to H'Cup Munster 'A' have Neath, Coventry and Bristol
It involves English Teams in D1
Check <a href="http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php" target="_blank">http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php
</a>[/b]

Ah ok, I have heard of this, but not much atall. That looks like a tough group. What kinda quality are Munster 'A', are the players just the up and coming youngsters, or are there some old players/players not good enough for Munster playing for them? If it's just youngsters, they're gonna seriously struggle against the likes of Bristol and Neath, both of which have good teams. Will be interesting to see how it pans out, as I have no idea. All four teams could be pretty even, or Bristol might steamroll everyone.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No there a new British and Irish Cup starting this season it formatted similar to H'Cup Munster 'A' have Neath, Coventry and Bristol
It involves English Teams in D1
Check <a href="http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php" target="_blank">http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php
</a>[/b]

Ah ok, I have heard of this, but not much atall. That looks like a tough group. What kinda quality are Munster 'A', are the players just the up and coming youngsters, or are there some old players/players not good enough for Munster playing for them? If it's just youngsters, they're gonna seriously struggle against the likes of Bristol and Neath, both of which have good teams. Will be interesting to see how it pans out, as I have no idea. All four teams could be pretty even, or Bristol might steamroll everyone.
[/b][/quote]
No it'll be made up of some known members too like Ian Dowling for 1 played against Ulster 'A' recently but well I think they may find it tough as it will be mostly reserve players but it a competition that will benefit all involved but my money on Bristol to win whole thing out.
I think Team relegated from GP will be favourite every year.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Oct 1 2009, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Oct 1 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've never really understood the Irish players affiliations with smaller clubs,
Like does BOD still play for UCD? Because he's on their site 'n' stuff, but it seems weird that he'd play on a team with people who've just turned 18 :S[/b]

No they do although like of BOD very rarely now but Jerry Flennery played with Shannon last week as preparation for game vs Leinster
[/b][/quote]
********. You might see a regular Leinster or Munster player play once or twice for their club all season.. if they're coming back from injury or have been out of the match squad for a prolonged time. Internationals will hardly play for their clubs in their whole pro careers these days.
[/b][/quote]
Yes it is very rare that they play for clubs but in Munster it seen as great way for all the players to keep getting game time if not in Magners squad (obviously if been rested they won't be in AIL teams) but likes of Jeremy Manning played lots of AIL last year etc but yes it rare for Internationals to play AIL games except if rushing to get game-time
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Oct 1 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Oct 1 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No there a new British and Irish Cup starting this season it formatted similar to H'Cup Munster 'A' have Neath, Coventry and Bristol
It involves English Teams in D1
Check <a href="http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php" target="_blank">http://munsterrugby.ie/rugby/ateamfixtures.php
</a>[/b]

Ah ok, I have heard of this, but not much atall. That looks like a tough group. What kinda quality are Munster 'A', are the players just the up and coming youngsters, or are there some old players/players not good enough for Munster playing for them? If it's just youngsters, they're gonna seriously struggle against the likes of Bristol and Neath, both of which have good teams. Will be interesting to see how it pans out, as I have no idea. All four teams could be pretty even, or Bristol might steamroll everyone.
[/b][/quote]
No it'll be made up of some known members too like Ian Dowling for 1 played against Ulster 'A' recently but well I think they may find it tough as it will be mostly reserve players but it a competition that will benefit all involved but my money on Bristol to win whole thing out.
I think Team relegated from GP will be favourite every year.
[/b][/quote]

The welsh sides in this competition will be the top 6 teams in the Welsh Premiership from the previous year. So in this year's comp you'll have Aberavon, Cardiff, Llanelli, Neath, Newport, Pontypridd. Each of these clubs is affiliated to a region and in theory you could see some big names playing but it's highly unlikely.
 

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