Maro Itoje - the greatest rugby player of all time, is he there already?

[Which Tyler]

People are really forgetting how good Cipriani was before his leg break.
He was better than Slade at the same age, easily, and I'm a huge fan of Slade

Define the word "people"

 

[Every Time Ref]

I know a 10 when I see one and Henry Slade was born to play 10!!!

For a young player I have seen none with the flair, composure and physical attributes this lad has, since the likes of Wilkinson or Carter, to say Burnes, Ciprianin, Ford or Farrell have ever had that hype about them is nothing more than a dream, as they never had that amount of talent at this age and still have less now, I have never rated any of them that highly, each has certain attributes that are excellent but not as many as young Mr Slade.

Oh and best 10 ever Andy Goode

There are too many variables to ever be able to accurately predict who is going to be world class. Talent is just one of them - even if your assessment of Slade's talent is 100% accurate, you have no idea how personality, coaching, injuries, personal circumstances, the whims of selectors and other factors might affect his future.

There's a lot more luck in the world, and in sport, than people like to admit. For example, the International Monetary Fund conducted a study of international cricketers, studying various statistical trends to analyse the role of luck in determining success. Batsmen making their debut at home had a higher average by 30% (I think ... can't remember exact figure). Different sport, but that shows an incredible degree of variation in success based on one seemingly arbitrary fact.

Everyone remembers that Jonny Wilkinson was predicted for greatness from very early on. You have to remember that so were a load of names listed above, and any number of other players who turned out to be duds.

 

[HowieLO6]

People are really forgetting how good Cipriani was before his leg break.
He was better than Slade at the same age, easily, and I'm a huge fan of Slade

Agreed. Was a bit of a bell with a monumental ego, but what a talent. Was always a popular choice to hate, and had the kind of personality and faux-celeb lifestyle that made it easy enough to do so.

Tackling might not have been there in his formative years, but what an attacking threat. Would still love to see him in white.

 

[johnmac99]

A good hypothesis that lacks evidence. Only time will tell.

 

[Peat]

What I don't get it why Welsh rugby fans always feel a need to comment on English rugby and English players. It's almost like they are jealous that they don't have a professional league themselves or a country with any talent.

Go talk about your own players.

Everyone is welcome to post in any thread on any subject on the Rugby Forum until they break the rules. If you don't want to hear what non-English posters have to say about English rugby, you're on the wrong forum.

So don't tell people to go talk about their own players. It's needlessly inflammatory.

If you have nothing to say about his actual opinion, don't post on the subject at all.

 

[Thingimubob]

What I don't get it why Welsh rugby fans always feel a need to comment on English rugby and English players. It's almost like they are jealous that they don't have a professional league themselves or a country with any talent.

Go talk about your own players.

:lol: Missed this one!

Gonna assume you missed the point that this is aimed at the media, not Itoje himself?

Either way, chuck that reel back out there son! You might get a few more bites next time.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Everyone is welcome to post in any thread on any subject on the Rugby Forum until they break the rules. If you don't want to hear what non-English posters have to say about English rugby, you're on the wrong forum.

So don't tell people to go talk about their own players. It's needlessly inflammatory.

If you have nothing to say about his actual opinion, don't post on the subject at all.

It was meant to be ironic due to the idea of the post. Maybe lost without tone on the Internet.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think we all need to accept that with regards to the media the OP has a valid point. It's something our media does and which does unfortunately rub off on fans.
Obviously, there's something ironic about the incessant hyping of many Welsh players for the last 4 and a half years but that's a separate matter as this isn't about Wales.

Re. the Courtney Lawes point, it's certainly ok to make parrallels of how he was hyped a few years back, but on the other hand I think people just had and still have a fetish for a different style of lock, and there's something massively boner-inducing for some about the idea of such a hard hitting athletic lock. For me, I see him as a 'tech' card to be swapped in or out depending on the opposition.

 

[j'nuh]

Itoje sets standards that we mere fans cannot comprehend.

Itoje will take England into the promised land.

 

[Thingimubob]

Itoje sets standards that we mere fans cannot comprehend.

Itoje will take England into the promised land.

Dare we say we've finally found the heir to the great one?

The man, the myth, the legend...Ed Fairhurst

 

[Every Time Ref]

Itoje sets standards that we mere fans cannot comprehend.

Itoje will take England into the promised land.

I think you're underrating him here a bit to be honest mate

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Was Lawes hyped?

I remember people hyping his big hits, but not particularly him as a player. Certainly not got the level of interest that Launch and Itoje have.

 

[The Coach]

I can only think that you have a very short memory for these things. Cips was hyped at least as much as Slade, right up to his horrendous ankle injury. Ford was hyped more and earlier than Slade.
You personally may not have done (no idea) but to claim the hype wasn't there can only be attributed to not following the back pages then, or memory failure.
Our of interest - who's the only Englishman to have won the IRB's "junior player of the year" award - I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Slade (or Itoje). OOI, he was born in the same year as 2 subsequent winners (and is 3 days younger than last year's messiah: Henry Slade); and is the youngest nominee (IIRC), let alone winner.

Apologies for not making myself a bit clearer, yes I agree, there was loads of hype but many top coaches and managers were not talking them up to be in the same league as Carter or Wilkinson, where as Slade has been, yes media did hype these players up and for good reason as they were playing very well at the time! I was just making an observation that Slade (like Carter and Wilko at a very young age) is a completely different sort of player to cips, burns and ford when at that same age who all have had that X factor and that's why they've been so popular.

Oh and sorry for going off topic from Maro Itoje - he is a fantastic player !!

 

[Which Tyler]

That's much closer to being a fair comment.
However, it's still not true about Cipriani and Ford, who absolutely were hyped that way by coaches; both were absolutely being salivated over by all and sundry; and to my memory, more so than Slade.

You don't get bumped up an age group and be crowned the best junior player in the world without any hype from coaches.

 

[The Coach]

That's much closer to being a fair comment.
However, it's still not true about Cipriani and Ford, who absolutely were hyped that way by coaches; both were absolutely being salivated over by all and sundry; and to my memory, more so than Slade.

You don't get bumped up an age group and be crowned the best junior player in the world without any hype from coaches.

You do when your dad is one (joke)

 

[Which Tyler]

Fair and annoyingly valid point

 

[McTallshort]

Our media is terrible at hyping English players up but in terms of fans I find the Celts with the Irish in particular to be much more partisan when it comes to talking up their players. On the 2 rugby forums I have been on in my time it only seems to take one or two good performances from an Irish, Scottish or welsh player before they are classed as world class or a lions shoe-in. Take zebo, one heel flip with a ball and all of a sudden he's the lions test wing, Gavin Henson tackles and 18 year old debutant and he's world class (playing for Bristol now) and Denton for Scotland makes one break and he becomes the token jock in everyone's lions test side.



Yes the English press is bad but most English fans are pretty grounded when it comes to describing their players as world class

 

[Every Time Ref]

Our media is terrible at hyping English players up but in terms of fans I find the Celts with the Irish in particular to be much more partisan when it comes to talking up their players. On the 2 rugby forums I have been on in my time it only seems to take one or two good performances from an Irish, Scottish or welsh player before they are classed as world class or a lions shoe-in. Take zebo, one heel flip with a ball and all of a sudden he's the lions test wing, Gavin Henson tackles and 18 year old debutant and he's world class (playing for Bristol now) and Denton for Scotland makes one break and he becomes the token jock in everyone's lions test side.



Yes the English press is bad but most English fans are pretty grounded when it comes to describing their players as world class

Christ, 2 of your 3 examples of overhyped disappointments have been signed by Bath in the last couple of years. Thanks for the pick-me-up mate, just what we Bath fans need right now!

 

[McTallshort]

Isn't Zebo moving to an English club? Heard it was one in the west country that had broken the salary cap several times but not won owt in years....and it not Gloucester or Bristol or even Exeter.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Celts with the Irish in particular

Bro...

Zebo's hype outside of Munster wasn't huge, he was labeled as a potential bolete at best which was fair considering he lost out to Sean Maitland and was later called up. Over here we prefer to hype our best players to that of best in the world, we don't really go for the young kid who'll be the next great of the game like Itoje is getting. Josh Van der Flier is probably the best example here, he was the best forward in green at the weekend and none of our media said a word about him. (Although some hyped up Dillane and McCloskey because they bring the "style of play we need") Ireland have awful rugby writers in the press and I think it's because of that they jump on the bandwagon of a very good player rather than dub anyone the next big thing.