Maro Itoje - the greatest rugby player of all time, is he there already?

[nickdnz]

For England or in general?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

For England or in general?

I assume England, Iain Henderson debuted at 20 for a Ireland and has never failed to impress, strikingly similar players the two of them are. You've got the likes of De Jäger, Etzebeth and Retallick in the SH too. It's the area in rugby where you really see how much sports science and nutrition has improved with the unprecedented number young locks coming through.

 

[Which Tyler]

It's English sport - we need a new messiah every year - at least Itoje is actually playing at this level; remember last year and all the Slade hype? the brand new messiah, in any position in the backline; had played once, badly, for the Saxons.

 

[Bee]

I like, Itoje, too.
But he still is pretty young and hopefully he will develop. So it is a little bit too early for that much of a hype.
Hopefully this won't happen, but a torn ACL, e.g., losing playing time etc. and we might never hear of him again...

 

[Raggs]

I'm not sure anyone who's got Walesonline writing for their country, can comment on news hyping up players.

Itoje has had a lot of headlines, but given that he's played large parts in winning an u20s jwc, the LV cup (fairly sure they won?), the aviva premiership, and two very impressive runs in europe (and a massively impressive AP season this time), it's not that surprising.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

What I don't get it why Welsh rugby fans always feel a need to comment on English rugby and English players. It's almost like they are jealous that they don't have a professional league themselves or a country with any talent.

Go talk about your own players.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm not sure anyone who's got Walesonline writing for their country, can comment on news hyping up players.

Itoje has had a lot of headlines, but given that he's played large parts in winning an u20s jwc, the LV cup (fairly sure they won?), the aviva premiership, and two very impressive runs in europe (and a massively impressive AP season this time), it's not that surprising.

Yip, that u20 JRWC he pretty much was the difference.

 

[Maverick1987]

It's English sport - we need a new messiah every year - at least Itoje is actually playing at this level; remember last year and all the Slade hype? the brand new messiah, in any position in the backline; had played once, badly, for the Saxons.

There's a lot more reasons why people think good things about Slade . He's been immense for Exeter he won a u20s JWC . He was brilliant in the World Cup warm up . He's just a really good player .

 

[The Coach]

It's English sport - we need a new messiah every year - at least Itoje is actually playing at this level; remember last year and all the Slade hype? the brand new messiah, in any position in the backline; had played once, badly, for the Saxons.

I'm sorry but Slade is different gravy, had he not been injured prior to six nations not only would he of started every game he would of turned a lot of heads in the process.

 

[Willodell100]

I'm sorry but Slade is different gravy, had he not been injured prior to six nations not only would he of started every game he would of turned a lot of heads in the process.

I think he is different gravy (love that expression!) & I do hope Exeter play him at flyhalf, not at 13, when he returns from injury (http://bbc.in/1RG4zK2) as I think he'll make the Ford-Farrell argument null & void.

I realise form and injury can change all this in a instance but mind is wandering down the road a little...

9) Dan Robson (23)
10) Henry Slade (22)
11) Jonny May (25)
12) Manu Tuilagi (24)
13) Jonathan Joseph (24)
14) Antony Watson (22)
15) Jack Nowell (22)

21) Ben Youngs (26)
Joe Simpson (27)
22) George Ford (22)
Owen Farrell (24)
23) Elliot Daly (23)

And the forward pack looks just as exciting.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think he is different gravy (love that expression!) & I do hope Exeter play him at flyhalf, not at 13, when he returns from injury (http://bbc.in/1RG4zK2) as I think he'll make the Ford-Farrell argument null & void.

I realise form and injury can change all this in a instance but mind is wandering down the road a little...

9) Dan Robson (23)
10) Henry Slade (22)
11) Jonny May (25)
12) Manu Tuilagi (24)
13) Jonathan Joseph (24)
14) Antony Watson (22)
15) Jack Nowell (22)

21) Ben Youngs (26)
Joe Simpson (27)
22) George Ford (22)
Owen Farrell (24)
23) Elliot Daly (23)

And the forward pack looks just as exciting.

I'm not a fan of Jonny May . But put Lewington or Yarde in there and you have a deal

 

[Willodell100]

I'm not a fan of Jonny May . But put Lewington or Yarde in there and you have a deal

You have a deal with Lewington - that's a decent trade & he's in his early 20s too. He has really prospered in a faulting Irish side as well. Can't be too far off the senior squad. Yarde isn't exactly rubbish either.

I do like Jonny May's elusiveness though. I know a few on here see it as a massive black mark but, for me, that's his unique selling point (couldn't say 'point of difference') & he had a pretty good World Cup considering.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm sorry but Slade is different gravy, had he not been injured prior to six nations not only would he of started every game he would of turned a lot of heads in the process.

Isn't this kind of the point? Saying that a player who has played one international game is "different gravy" from all the previous over-hyped failures mentioned, and that he would definitely have made a massive impact in his first five internationals, is a ridiculous level of hype based on very little.

To be clear - I'm not saying I don't rate Slade highly. But let's stop pretending we know who is going to be World Class when they are 21, then acting all surprised when they're forgotten at 27. I think that was precisely the point of the post, and one I agree with.

 

[ncurd]

Also lets be absolutely clear while Slade has impressed at other levels he's not quite had the consistent impact of Itoje.

Sldade just feels like he's the next young fly-half we've bought in to replace Wilkinson, I'd rather we gave someone an actual opportunity for a change instead of looking for the next taxi all the time.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm sorry but Slade is different gravy, had he not been injured prior to six nations not only would he of started every game he would of turned a lot of heads in the process.

Thank you for proving my point.
Exactly the same thing has been said about Wilkinson, Hodgson, Cipriani, Burns and Ford whilst they were on 0-3 caps - and that's just in the same position.

He's been hailed as a messiah before showing anything at all in international rugby. It'd be nice if one day, a messiah (other than St Jonny) was actually given the chance to settle into playing international rugby.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You have a deal with Lewington - that's a decent trade & he's in his early 20s too. He has really prospered in a faulting Irish side as well. Can't be too far off the senior squad. Yarde isn't exactly rubbish either.

I do like Jonny May's elusiveness though. I know a few on here see it as a massive black mark but, for me, that's his unique selling point (couldn't say 'point of difference') & he had a pretty good World Cup considering.

I think May is excellent and before injury he was very much on an upward trajectory at international level, bit like Kruis has been recently. And how do you set a defensive pattern when the runner himself hasn't got a clue what he's going to do next? And he has blistering speed, which is the one thing that terrifies all defences; Nowell, for all his smartness, doesn't. I would say that Nowell should gravitate to 15 and while I think he could be very good there, I think Watson could be stellar, which leaves a vacancy on the wing. Very much like the look of Lewington, but Watson senior at Newcastle will be worth keeping an eye on over the next couple of years as he gets to grips with XVs; gas to burn,and from the limited sight I've had of him seems to scrap pretty hard for his size in both breakdown and tackle.

Bringing my crystal ball out I think both Nowell and Clifford will win more caps from the bench than in the starting XV. Ditto Slade unless he really specialises in one position, ideally 10, at Chiefs.

 

[The Coach]

I know a 10 when I see one and Henry Slade was born to play 10!!!

For a young player I have seen none with the flair, composure and physical attributes this lad has, since the likes of Wilkinson or Carter, to say Burnes, Ciprianin, Ford or Farrell have ever had that hype about them is nothing more than a dream, as they never had that amount of talent at this age and still have less now, I have never rated any of them that highly, each has certain attributes that are excellent but not as many as young Mr Slade.

Oh and best 10 ever Andy Goode

 

[TRF_heineken]

For a guy I've never heard of, this thread's ***le is extremely inaccurate...

Who the hell is Maro Itoje? Sounds like DJ playing at Ibiza

 

[Which Tyler]

I know a 10 when I see one and Henry Slade was born to play 10!!!

For a young player I have seen none with the flair, composure and physical attributes this lad has, since the likes of Wilkinson or Carter, to say Burnes, Ciprianin, Ford or Farrell have ever had that hype about them is nothing more than a dream, as they never had that amount of talent at this age and still have less now, I have never rated any of them that highly, each has certain attributes that are excellent but not as many as young Mr Slade.

Oh and best 10 ever Andy Goode

I can only think that you have a very short memory for these things. Cips was hyped at least as much as Slade, right up to his horrendous ankle injury. Ford was hyped more and earlier than Slade.
You personally may not have done (no idea) but to claim the hype wasn't there can only be attributed to not following the back pages then, or memory failure.
Our of interest - who's the only Englishman to have won the IRB's "junior player of the year" award - I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Slade (or Itoje). OOI, he was born in the same year as 2 subsequent winners (and is 3 days younger than last year's messiah: Henry Slade); and is the youngest nominee (IIRC), let alone winner.

When Danny Cipriani made his England debut in 2008 aged 20 he was touted as a great hope for the future and expected to be there or thereabouts at fly-half for years to come.

The product of a rugby family, George Ford seemed destined for a rugby league career after stints as a teenager with Wigan Warriors and Bradford Bulls academies, but at 15 he joined Leicester Tigers, where his reputation as one of the most gifted young talents in English rugby took root.

Following terrific performances for England Under-18s, he was nominated for the 2009 BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year award. He was rapidly promoted to the England Under-20 set-up and in 2011 he helped them to the Six Nations Grand Slam and Junior World Championship final in Italy.

That led to him becoming the first Englishman to be named IRB World Junior Player of the Year in December 2011.

Freddie Burns is one of England's standout fly-halves and is challenging for the No.10 test jersey.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

People are really forgetting how good Cipriani was before his leg break.
He was better than Slade at the same age, easily, and I'm a huge fan of Slade