Luke Fitzgerald on Nigel Owens

[Groundhog]

But does it really matter??? Bakkies Botha won the World Cup, Super Rugby ***le, Tri Nations, B&I Lions Tour, French Top14, Currie Cup and European Cup. His opinion on a referee's performance is nothing of value.

So what's your point? Referees are beyond media reproach? I'm sorry I don't see the parallel between the two cases of Fitzgerald expressing his opinion as a pundit and Botha being viewed as a thug. No disrespect.
His opinion has value because its literally what he's paid to convey across multiple platforms as a journalist and as a pundit.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But does it really matter??? Bakkies Botha won the World Cup, Super Rugby ***le, Tri Nations, B&I Lions Tour, French Top14, Currie Cup and European Cup. His opinion on a referee's performance is nothing of value.

Again, no one claimed his accolades heighten his opinion, those comments were completely isolated in response to this

Luke Fitzgerald, what a .... nothing

Does it matter? To some people, its certainly tangential but to call Luke Fitzgerald a nothing is wrong, if it were Bakkies Botha making the point and someone called him a nothing I doubt you'd have the same reaction.

Also, I'd completely disagree with your last point, Fitz' article is about how he, as a former professional player sees Owens', an International referee, carry on. Your average journo who hasn't played pro rugby doesn't know what its like tolerating these quips, neither do you or I, who does? Pro players, they might just be worth listening to.

What do I think? Luke might be being a little bit precious but it shows that there are players out there who'd let comments get to them, an arbiter really shouldn't have that affect on the game, I wouldn't mind if Owens was still a good ref though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So what's your point? Referees are beyond media reproach? I'm sorry I don't see the parallel between the two cases of Fitzgerald expressing his opinion as a pundit and Botha being viewed as a thug. No disrespect.
His opinion has value because its literally what he's paid to convey across multiple platforms as a journalist and as a pundit.

No. I'm saying that the thin-skinned people on this forum should relax a bit more. To get up in arms because someone said a player = nothing, is pointless. And to list their accomplishments is equally pointless to the topic.

Come to think of it, this whole thread is really a bit pointless...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

But in all fairness... all the referees standards have dropped the past 2 years.

Perhaps so, but this thread is specifically about Owens
I'd argue he's dropped the furthest as well. Used to be one of the best on the international scene but now is barely pro-club level. He really is very very bad.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Perhaps so, but this thread is specifically about Owens
I'd argue he's dropped the furthest as well. Used to be one of the best on the international scene but now is barely pro-club level. He really is very very bad.

Fair enough. This thread is about what Luke said about Owens. I get that.

Jaco Peyper is not far behind him though...

 

[RedruthRFC]

Now if a player or coach performances drops in similar circumstances then they would rightly get called out.

This is what I was getting at, particularly if the player or coach in decline was involved with a lot of extra curricular activities.

Maybe rugby needs to start paying their refs more though I guess.

I suspect you're right, although it is sufficiently lucrative to tempt Wayne Barnes away from a presumably well rewarded legal career (fair play to him if he's accepting a pay cut to do something he enjoys). I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi, so maybe I'm being OTT, but some of Owens' tweets make it clear that he hasn't managed to grasp some of the more simple rules of grammar, which leaves me wondering what hope he has with the laws of rugby. Saying that, if you doubled the remuneration, would people of greater quality be attracted?

 

[RedruthRFC]

As for Nigel and his remarks, everyone are entitled to their opinion, just like Luke, but I like those snappy remarks, it usually breaks the tension in a tense game. He is a humoristic guy why criticise him for using it in the workplace??? If I was being critiqued for using sarcasm in my job, it wouldn't stop me from doing it. It's just how I am.

As you say, it's a matter of opinion, but I'm not a fan. It has the potential to convey that he's not taking his job seriously. Similarly, I'm not a fan of the "pals" act that we see from a lot of referees as it could be interpreted as showing favoritism. There are plenty of jobs where laughing and joking isn't acceptable. This is one IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

As you say, it's a matter of opinion, but I'm not a fan. It has the potential to convey that he's not taking his job seriously. Similarly, I'm not a fan of the "pals" act that we see from a lot of referees as it could be interpreted as showing favoritism. There are plenty of jobs where laughing and joking isn't acceptable. This is one IMO.

But why not? As long as it doesn't bring the game into disrepute, or changes the outcome, why can't it be a bit "lighter"?

 

[RedruthRFC]

But why not? As long as it doesn't bring the game into disrepute, or changes the outcome, why can't it be a bit "lighter"?

Strange question - for the reasons I gave! Furthermore, to me, referees should have gravitas, clowning around and being matey with the players destroys this.

Bringing the game into disrepute has nothing to do with anything, I'm not accusing anyone of doing this, I'm just saying that there are better ways for referees to conduct themselves. I think that Healey is trying to say that the Nigel Owens One Man Show is indeed changing the outcome of games. Maybe he's right and Owens' decline in performance is down to a feeling of being more important than the game itself (hence within his rights to make things up as he goes along), maybe he would have declined just the same if he went straight home after every match to watch match tapes, not emerging until his next appointment, I have no way of knowing and don't see how anyone else can. One thing I am sure of is that by behaving as he does and indulging in extracurricular activities, he's leaving himself open to criticism.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Strange question - for the reasons I gave! Furthermore, to me, referees should have gravitas, clowning around and being matey with the players destroys this.

Bringing the game into disrepute has nothing to do with anything, I'm not accusing anyone of doing this, I'm just saying that there are better ways for referees to conduct themselves. I think that Healey is trying to say that the Nigel Owens One Man Show is indeed changing the outcome of games. Maybe he's right and Owens' decline in performance is down to a feeling of being more important than the game itself (hence within his rights to make things up as he goes along), maybe he would have declined just the same if he went straight home after every match to watch match tapes, not emerging until his next appointment, I have no way of knowing and don't see how anyone else can. One thing I am sure of is that by behaving as he does and indulging in extracurricular activities, he's leaving himself open to criticism.

I understand the point that a referee shouldn't be bigger than the game.

But referees are people too, people are in essence saying that Owens must change his normal personality just to keep them happy when watching a game. Some referees are more talkative than others, some are way more serious than others, and some can see the lighter side of things. That's just part of being human. Owens is expressing himself in a manner that is natural to him, no matter the awkwardness or silliness it projects.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

But referees are people too, people are in essence saying that Owens must change his normal personality just to keep them happy when watching a game.

Believing you are "just being funny" and being in a position of power (specially in positions related to enforcement) is a dangerous mix, at best.
He is in a position of power and his jokes are not part of his job description.

Apply the same principle to other situations as sanity test: Imagine a manager believing he is funny by making jokes on people he's controlling/report to him.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Does Owens really indulge in that many witticisms on the field though? I watch a lot of rugby and can maybe think of two or three instances. The frequency of his informal chat with players seems to have declined in recent years too in my opinion.

In football, arguably the most respected referee of the 90s/00s was Perluigi Collina. He had a reputation for being informal with players and being competent. Creating a relaxed atmosphere on the pitch that diffused tension between opposing players as well as with himself.

I don't see the contradiction or conflict in a bit of occasional levity and refereeing in a testosterone filled sporting contest (depending on the sport - less appropriate in sports that don't have in game downtime like rugby and football).

Plus, if there is a general acceptance that the calibre of referee is generally not good enough (not my opinion) then how is the recruitment situation going to be improved by placing additional constraints on referees conduct on and off the field?