Liam Williams - apology

[goodNumber10]

what an idiot:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-30568658

Wales rugby union international Liam Williams has apologised after posting a picture on Twitter of himself "blacked-up" as a Swansea City footballer.

The full-back for Pro12 side Scarlets appeared with four team-mates in fancy dress where he posed as Wilfried Bony.

Mr Williams was criticised by Show Racism the Red Card, which said it was "disappointed to see the image".

The photo has been removed and he said he was not a racist and there was "no malice behind it".

:huh:

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Most certainly not racist though... Political correctness has gone way too far!

 

[goodNumber10]

It's pretty racist.

 

[Icemn]

why did he do it? dress up like that i mean... not apologize...

 

[Groundhog]

Not really racist though. Certainly not intended as such anyway.

 

[SelimNiai]

Not really racist, just incredibly stupid

 

[goodNumber10]

why did he do it? dress up like that i mean... not apologize...

dunno, think it was a Fancy dress, picture is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cel...star-blacks-up-for-Wilfried-Bony-costume.html

I'm sure he didn't intend to cause offence, but it's a bit ignorant none the less.

It is racist, even if unintentionally so... it's offensive and making fun of someones skin colour and is steeped in decades of offensive behavior towards black people.

It's quite interesting though, my mrs is dutch and they still do the Black Pete thing each year, it's slightly different but there has been a hell of a lot of discussion over whether or not it should be stopped.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To think that it's acceptable to do, especially as a pro/international sportsman, shows that he doesn't have two braincells to rub together

 

[j'nuh]

Most certainly not racist though... Political correctness has gone way too far!

Something doesn't have to be flagrantly in-your-face offensive to be racist. And you not being able to understand why something is racist doesn't make it not racist.

I feel that Liam Williams is ignorant and deserves the flack he receives, but wasn't trying to be hurtful. By seeking permission, at least he showed respect on some level. I don't resent him for it, but I hope he's learned a hard lesson, as has anyone looking in from the outside.

 

[goodNumber10]

Something doesn't have to be flagrantly in-your-face offensive to be racist. And you not being able to understand why something is racist doesn't make it not racist.

I feel that Liam Williams is ignorant and deserves the flack he receives, but wasn't trying to be hurtful. By seeking permission, at least he showed respect on some level. I don't resent him for it, but I hope he's learned a hard lesson, as has anyone looking in from the outside.

I think the point is blackface and the history behind it is extremely offensive to black people, regardless of saying "i asked permission" his inability to understand he would be upsetting lots of people by posting it on twitter speaks volumes.

Casual racism?

It's a bit like telling a racist or sexist joke, regardless of your beliefs the act is still racist. Doesn't mean he is like you said.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's pretty racist.

Something doesn't have to be flagrantly in-your-face offensive to be racist. And you not being able to understand why something is racist doesn't make it not racist.

I feel that Liam Williams is ignorant and deserves the flack he receives, but wasn't trying to be hurtful. By seeking permission, at least he showed respect on some level. I don't resent him for it, but I hope he's learned a hard lesson, as has anyone looking in from the outside.

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small;">
noun

• the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
  • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
  
  
  

I don't see where dressing up as one of your favourite sportsmen falls under these definitions, this just shows Williams' naivety to think that some lousy journalist wouldn't jump on the opportunity to make a story out of it. Stupid on all accounts, Williams should just learn a lesson that the media will jump on absolutely anything they can get, forget about it and move on. I'm not sympathetic to Williams, he should have known better than to give the media a sniff, but he hasn't dropped any further in how I view him which isn't exactly fondly I must admit.

 

[j'nuh]

I think the point is blackface and the history behind it is extremely offensive to black people, regardless of saying "i asked permission" his inability to understand he would be upsetting lots of people by posting it on twitter speaks volumes.

Casual racism?

It's a bit like telling a racist or sexist joke, regardless of your beliefs the act is still racist. Doesn't mean he is like you said.

Oh, I'm not excusing it one bit. It's insensitive as hell, racist, unacceptable etc. The fact that he's a sportsman and chose to share it on twitter with the number of followers he has, some of which will almost certainly be black, does make it even worse.

But I do differentiate between those who act out of malice and those who act out of ignorance. I think that the latter can be taught not to act racist, but the former are completely disengaged from the empathy needed to not act in that way.

 

[goodNumber10]

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small;">
noun

• the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
  • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
  
  
  

I don't see where dressing up as one of your favourite sportsmen falls under these definitions, this just shows Williams' naivety to think that some lousy journalist wouldn't jump on the opportunity to make a story out of it. Stupid on all accounts, Williams should just learn a lesson that the media will jump on absolutely anything they can get, forget about it and move on. I'm not sympathetic to Williams, he should have known better than to give the media a sniff, but he hasn't dropped any further in how I view him which isn't exactly fondly I must admit.

Ah, the dictionary is out...... i guess by that standard it's ok to call people "Gay" because you know, it means Happy in the dictionary. It's a silly defence.

As i said above, there is a long an painful history behind "blackface" and the racial connotations it holds, fact he thought it would not offend people in this day and age shows his ignorance.

Oh, I'm not excusing it one bit. It's insensitive as hell, racist, unacceptable etc. The fact that he's a sportsman and chose to share it on twitter with the number of followers he has, some of which will almost certainly be black, does make it even worse.

But I do differentiate between those who act out of malice and those who act out of ignorance. I think that the latter can be taught not to act racist, but the former are completely disengaged from the empathy needed to not act in that way.

I tend to agree, all i'm saying is just because he meant no malice doesn't make it not racist.

 

[TommiG88]

I don't see how painting your face black to try to appear like one of your favourite players is racist. It's stupid, not racist.

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't see how painting your face black to try to appear like one of your favourite players is racist. It's stupid, not racist.

*facepalm*

*edit: if you have time read this: http://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-casual-racism-30464

 

[j'nuh]

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small;">
noun

• the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
  • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

I don't see where dressing up as one of your favourite sportsmen falls under these definitions, this just shows Williams' naivety to think that some lousy journalist wouldn't jump on the opportunity to make a story out of it. Stupid on all accounts, Williams should just learn a lesson that the media will jump on absolutely anything they can get, forget about it and move on. I'm not sympathetic to Williams, he should have known better than to give the media a sniff, but he hasn't dropped any further in how I view him which isn't exactly fondly I must admit.

The issue is a lot more complicated than what a dictionary definition can refute.

The history of blackface is mired in white people portraying black people to be unintelligent and as a caricature. There is no humanity in the portrayal. This was done in a time before the civil rights movement, so black people did not have a voice to argue against this. It was those with power laughing at those without. A few examples for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_swtbIi2F0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezyQdqBETVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-2u40Tv9D0

Blacking up is unacceptable because it has an objectionable history and many people still harbour resentful feelings towards its use. It is discrimination because when you do it, you're saying your little joke is more important than the people you hurt in making the joke.

I tend to agree, all i'm saying is just because he meant no malice doesn't make it not racist.

100% agreed.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ah, the dictionary is out...... i guess by that standard it's ok to call people "Gay" because you know, it means Happy in the dictionary. It's a silly defence.

As i said above, there is a long an painful history behind "blackface" and the racial connotations it holds, fact he thought it would not offend people in this day and age shows his ignorance.

gay
ɡeɪ/
adjective

• 1.
  (of a person, especially a man) homosexual.
  
  
  2.
  
  dated
  light-hearted and carefree
  
  

... Top notch argument there. Look, had Williams dressed up as "stereotypical black man" of course that would be racist but to dress up as a sports person he admires isn't in my opinion. Stupid, insensitive and naive due to his ability to attract attention from the media and the racial connotations you mention but not racist as per the definition of racism which is really the most legitimate and binding meaning of the word.

Anyway I'm out of here, I came on to make the point that the media and modern standards of "political correctness" were as much at fault for this non-story as Williams. There's always going to be difference of opinion due to culture, social background, education etc... on a topic such as this so there is really no point arguing.

 

[goodNumber10]

... Top notch argument there. Look, had Williams dressed up as "stereotypical black man" of course that would be racist but to dress up as a sports person he admires isn't in my opinion. Stupid, insensitive and naive due to his ability to attract attention from the media and the racial connotations you mention but not racist as per the definition of racism which is really the most legitimate and binding meaning of the word.

Well there isn't much of a difference, he is making fun of A; himself by saying look how stupid i look when blacked up, or B: laughing at a white person taking on the attributes of a black person.

Both are racist.

It's like making a racist joke, regardless of if you are or not racist - the act itself is racist.

The point in all of this a white person blacking up is objectionable because it carries 100's of years or racial prejudice and discrimination - regardless of his view point it is offensive and by virtue racist

Anyway I'm out of here, I came on to make the point that the media and modern standards of "political correctness" were as much at fault for this non-story as Williams. There's always going to be difference of opinion due to culture, social background, education etc... on a topic such as this so there is really no point arguing.

of course, but there is a point in discussing it.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

To the WRU, please just ban Liam Williams from professional rugby, his actions will ruin the game

 

[profitius]

Actually its ironic that the people calling him racist are themselves being racist because they're thinking along racial lines. The PC brigade should not be taken seriously.