Lessons learned frm the Steinlarger series - All Black perspective

[Darwin]

Again, like I said in my post that you've apparently skimmed, saw that wasn't pro SBW, then decided to reply - :lol: - you'll find that I said it's a mixcture of everything.

I shouldn't have to explain that there's a balcne to all this, do I?

I'll just say, that yes, he's the best we've got so far right now. To say that, is not really saying much is it?

Considering apart from Nonu at 12; who dowe have there?

An injured Toeava, Dan Carter shifted there would be class. But who else? Tim Bateman? Ryan Crotty? Are all these guys; while solid and good in their own right, the types of guys you will HONESTLY say to yourself that by SBW beating them means a whole lot?

Maybe it isn't I that is kidding myself.


You are missing the point that people care about his commitment. I don't give a toss if he lacks commitment into learning to play the guitar (read: anything else outside rugby or anything that might detract from that). I care because it's effort and resources wasted. Effort that could be more efficiently used for players that really want to fuirther themselves here in NZ.

I think sometimes fanboys pick and choose what I'm saying, simply because they don't want to hear anything else - *covers ears - la lala la lalal al al al ala lal aal al ala la la I can't hear yooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu lalala lal ala la la la * - -comes to mind when speaking to SBW lovers sometimes. :lol:


Respectfully, of course.

I'm sure what donmcdazzle was referring to was this part of your post: "Whether the coaches like it or not, they're obliged to play him." This implied (whether you intended to or not) that you didn't think that SBW was in the team on merit, and (as he rightly points out) this is clearly not the case. This doesn't make him a 'fanboy' - it just means he thinks SBW is in the team based on his performances, and anyone who has watched rugby this year should be able to come to the same conclusion.....

 

[Keithmurdoch]

I had heated arguements with league fans 5 years ago about SBW switching to union, they said he'd be awsome and I couldn't understand what position he could possible have the nouse to master - I've had to conceed to these bastaards in a humiliating show of self deprication because SBW has become, this year under W. Smith, freaking awsome as a rugby player. I hated doing this, but I was forced to by the palbible truth of the matter. If anyone is still holding out, I can only conclude tthat its because of South Aucklandism (can't be racism, cause all of a sudden they all love Nonu!!)

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'm sure what donmcdazzle was referring to was this part of your post: "Whether the coaches like it or not, they're obliged to play him." This implied (whether you intended to or not) that you didn't think that SBW was in the team on merit, and (as he rightly points out) this is clearly not the case. This doesn't make him a 'fanboy' - it just means he thinks SBW is in the team based on his performances, and anyone who has watched rugby this year should be able to come to the same conclusion.....

Yeah that is exactly the point I was trying to make, but it seems if you defend SBW you get painted with the "ignorant fanboy" brush.. which I'm definitely not.

I love how we all of a sudden have to qualify SBW's selection by who he is up against too, why don't we do that with any other players? Why not belittle Ben Franks for getting in due to the fact there are hardly any other two-sided props out there? - Again I'm not a SBW fanboy, it just seems people place extra conditions on him for whatever reason.

Most of the time in the AB's players are selected because they're the best, not because the coaches are trying to develop them (there are notable exceptions e.g. Toeava). I hope it stays that way, form should always be rewarded.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I had heated arguements with league fans 5 years ago about SBW switching to union, they said he'd be awsome and I couldn't understand what position he could possible have the nouse to master - I've had to conceed to these bastaards in a humiliating show of self deprication because SBW has become, this year under W. Smith, freaking awsome as a rugby player. I hated doing this, but I was forced to by the palbible truth of the matter. If anyone is still holding out, I can only conclude tthat its because of South Aucklandism (can't be racism, cause all of a sudden they all love Nonu!!)

holding out on what? that he is a good rugby player? i don't think anyone is holding out on that. When he was coming up in league he was touted as the next superstar.. Not very surprised that he has become a good rugby player, given that he is a very talented guy.

And insert facepalm.jpg @ your south auckland comment.

 

[admartian]

I'm sure what donmcdazzle was referring to was this part of your post: "Whether the coaches like it or not, they're obliged to play him." This implied (whether you intended to or not) that you didn't think that SBW was in the team on merit, and (as he rightly points out) this is clearly not the case. This doesn't make him a 'fanboy' - it just means he thinks SBW is in the team based on his performances, and anyone who has watched rugby this year should be able to come to the same conclusion.....

Again, like i said, it's a bit of that, and obviously a bit of his own form (which people overrate - but there's some form there). Otherwise, it'd be extremely hard to justify it.

I shouldn't have to explain the concept of balance and circumstance to any adult on here.

Yeah that is exactly the point I was trying to make, but it seems if you defend SBW you get painted with the "ignorant fanboy" brush.. which I'm definitely not.

I love how we all of a sudden have to qualify SBW's selection by who he is up against too, why don't we do that with any other players? Why not belittle Ben Franks for getting in due to the fact there are hardly any other two-sided props out there? - Again I'm not a SBW fanboy, it just seems people place extra conditions on him for whatever reason.

Most of the time in the AB's players are selected because they're the best, not because the coaches are trying to develop them (there are notable exceptions e.g. Toeava). I hope it stays that way, form should always be rewarded.

I'm not placing extra conditions on him - he's done that on his own. If I'm wrong, then tell me how.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Again, like i said, it's a bit of that, and obviously a bit of his own form (which people overrate - but there's some form there). Otherwise, it'd be extremely hard to justify it.

I shouldn't have to explain the concept of balance and circumstance to any adult on here.


I'm not placing extra conditions on him - he's done that on his own. If I'm wrong, then tell me how.

So straight faced you're ready to say that if you had no idea about any off field things or any knowledge about the players' pasts, and you had to choose an All Black team based on solely on this years Super Rugby, you wouldn't pick him?

You were qulaligying/belittling his selection by saying he wasn't up against anyone else of note in his position, which you've only seemed to have done for him. Like the Ben Franks example he isn't alone in this regard.

Last year he was overrated, this year I think because of all the backlash and people just wanting to have a pop regardless of how he is playing I actually think he is underrated. He is almost a different player than last year in the way he actually plays the game.

 

[admartian]

So straight faced you're ready to say that if you had no idea about any off field things or any knowledge about the players' pasts, and you had to choose an All Black team based on solely on this years Super Rugby, you wouldn't pick him?

You were qulaligying/belittling his selection by saying he wasn't up against anyone else of note in his position, which you've only seemed to have done for him. Like the Ben Franks example he isn't alone in this regard.

Last year he was overrated, this year I think because of all the backlash and people just wanting to have a pop regardless of how he is playing I actually think he is underrated. He is almost a different player than last year in the way he actually plays the game.

I dunno about the 22, as that last spot I'd usually tend to give to an outside back than a midfielder.

I'd still rate Nonu over him; and people fall in love with SR form too much I recon. And the Irish tests has just shown that he doesn';t shine in tight games (which is what really matters) and the open games; where pretty much all 22 All Blacks get awesome marks, are when he is only visible.

Let's put it this way; not a fan of him folding into a shell in big/tight games; not a fan of him taking up a spot though arguably who else is there?(if the circus of his "media announcement" comes to pass that he's signe don for 4 more years then count me in as one of his supporters to dig himself into the positino and develop); he's a minnows/open play warrior (meaning he lokos good in the games where everyone should look good; and he's been a SR default with the way the Blues have been playing.

If we were to quantify the 12 position it would be Nonu, SBW, then ..... Toeava maybe? To be honest, he's probably more comfortable at 13 (and he's used more of a fullback anyway) Bateman? Crotty?. Then people would be reaching for straws...

The difference in other positions like number 10 (Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Colin Slade; then arguably Gareth Anscombe, Tom Taylor) or wing/fullback (Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Hosea Gear, Zac Guildford, Tim Nanai-Williams, Lelia Masaga, Israel Dagg, Andre Taylor, Sean Maitland, Ben Smith, etc etc etc etc); or halfback, or loose forwards; or most other positions save for Hookers and maybe Locks.

And the Chiefs as a whole have prospered (thanks largely to their forwards and Cruden/Kahui on either side of him). On the ABs, he's got either Dan/Aaron, and Conrad on either side. Tough to look bad.

They're excellent players to learn from; and Aaron and Kahui are excellent to form a lasting partnership with for years to come. IF he stays, then develop that trio (sans Kahui being injured all the time).

But I'm not going to get carried away on Super rugby form for a guy that's been overvalued by just about everyone.

Not saying he doesn't necessarily deserve it; but this is where the "we've gone through all this effort; no one else is really out there, we've got to play SBW to see if he can do it" from the NZRU comes in to play (and not to have it twisted by lovers to say that it's purely professional nepotism).

After the Irish tests; all he's really proven to me is that he can't play in tight games (not just this series but games before also) and people overstate him in the open games.

Will he develop to be a better player in these types of games; based on his perceived potential? I hope so and probably will. But the real, and most important question is; will he stay and actually fulfil the contract that he signs? If he does, then great!




It's nothing personal, and people on here shouldn't take it to the chin so much. It's just reality. I've not made **** up about the guy.


I think people are knee-jerking that just because I'm not "all pro" for the guy then I "don't get it". I do; I understand he's played well for the Chiefs, and likely for reasons I've outlined above.

Just don't see that he's done all that well for the ABs either.

No matter; we'll find out with the "announcement" rolleyes in a fortnight...

No one is saying he's shite. Just overrated - nothing in there says that someone sucks.