Leinster v Queensland Reds

TRF_stormer2010 · Jul 12, 2011

TRF_Bullitt said:
WARNING!

You have inadvertedly suggested Australians know anything about forwards rugby. Step away from the thread and reassess your comments.

Nah, I've suggested they've learnt how to cope without forward play. No-one drops a scrum quite like the Aussies.

coonor · Jul 12, 2011

Healy has undoubtedly improved alot. He is very good in the loose and is very fast. He is brilliant at rucking and tackling and has also cut his penalty count down a huge amount. He has improved in the scrum but he is no more than solid and he needs a good tighthead scrummager like Ross along side him. He is young and improving so hopefully he can continue to get better.

profitius · Jul 12, 2011

stormer2010 said:
As far as I'm concerned the Reds beat the club team with the best pack in world rugby (the AB 1st choice pack without Kaino and Mealamu) so arguing Leinster shades it in the forwards carries no truck with me. The Aussies and Reds have a knack of playing behind a beaten pack and the credit has to go to Genia in a big way.

At times NH posters berate the S15 by saying the packs are weak and the teams can't tackle and then inevitably at test level the NH teams get outpaced and out-defended. Go figure.

Reds.

It doesn't matter who was in the Crusaders pack. They made some balls of the lineouts. Constantly handing possession back to Reds on a plate.

Actually most of the time its Southern Hemisphere fans berating Northern Hemisphere rugby. I don't think the NH teams are half as bad as some people think though. The world cup will be more like HEC type games than Super rugby type games.

I'd agree that theres alot of sterotyping going on. The Super rugby final was scrappy because they were playing defensively. I saw Reds earlier this season kicking the ball into the corners away to a South African team. It was intelligent rugby but it was also not long after Crusaders played in London and that generated alot of positive hype for Super rugby and everybody thought the Crusaders match in London was a typical match in the SH. Likewise some people on this thread think Leinster couldn't live with the pace the Reds play the game at but Leinster are best when playing at a high pace. They're coached by Joe Schmidt, Jonno Gibbes and Greg Feek, all from NZ. You also have Toulouse who are capable of playing some of the best rugby in the world and others.

big ginger 8 · Jul 12, 2011

1. Healy vs Daly= Daly despite what I've said Daly was very impressive this year.
2. Strauss vs Faingaa= Strauss, Faingaa's good but Strauss is better.
3. Ross vs Holmes= Ross, he can sacrummage.
4. Cullen vs Simmons= Cullen his experience and leadership wins this.
5. Hines vs Horwill= Equal. Guessing many will say Horwill but Hines is incredibly underrated.
6. O'Brien vs Higginbotham= Equal. Some will say SO'B some Higginbotham so equal.
7. Jennings vs Robinso= Robinson great year for him.
8. Heaslip vs Samo= Heaslip simples. Heaslip is World Class and Samo is only maybe international class.
9. Reddan vs Genia= Genia. He's the best scrum half in the world.
10. Sexton vs Cooper= Cooper. Sexton had a better final but Cooper is better.
11. Fitzgerald vs Ioane= Ioane. Ioane had a great year Fitzgerald a **** one.
12. D'arcy vs Tapuai= Tapuai. What the hell happened to D'arcy?
13. O'Driscoll vs Faingaa= O'Driscoll.
14. Horgan vs Davies= Davies shades it.
15. Nacewa vs Lance= Nacewa.

Scrum=Leinster
Lineout=Even I think the Reds one blows hot and cold.
Experiance=Leinster

Scores:
Leinster 9.5
Reds 8.5

Winners Leinster.

*using teams from respective finals since Leinster played theirs in 2nd half Jennings is there.

nickdnz · Jul 12, 2011

big ginger 8 said:
1. Helay vs Daly= Daly despite what I've said Daly was very impressive this year.
2. Strauss vs Faingaa= Strauss, Faingaa's good but Strauss is better.
3. Ross vs Holmes= Ross, he can sacrummage.
4. Cullen vs Simmons= Cullen his experience and leadership wins this.
5. Hines vs Horwill= Equal. Guessing many will say Horwill but Hines is incredibly underrated.
6. O'Brien vs Higginbotham= Equal. Some will say SO'B some Higginbotham so equal.
7. Jennings vs Robinso= Robinson great year for him.
8. Heaslip vs Samo= Heaslip simples. Heaslip is World Class and Samo is only maybe international class.
9. Reddan vs Genia= Genia. He's the best scrum half in the world.
10. Sexton vs Cooper= Cooper. Sexton had a better final but Cooper is better.
11. Fitzgerald vs Ioane= Ioane. Ioane had a great year Fitzgerald a **** one.
12. D'arcy vs Tapuai= Tapuai. What the hell happened to D'arcy?
13. O'Driscoll vs Faingaa= O'Driscoll.
14. Horgan vs Davies= Davies shades it.
15. Nacewa vs Lance= Nacewa.

Scrum=Leinster
Lineout=Even I think the Reds one blows hot and cold.
Experiance=Leinster

Scores:
Leinster 9.5
Reds 8.5

Winners Leinster.

*using teams from respective finals since Leinster played theirs in 2nd half Jennings is there.

Aha, so the Reds would win. Any member on this forum knows that superprop's opinion is worth little and almost certainly wrong. Game, set, match.

I love people using experience to say the Reds would lose. The Crusaders have plenty of experience and yet they lost. Also what happened to the people who watched Crusaders v Sharks at Twikenham? Seems like after a week of people saying "amazing, on another level" to people going streight back to "no defence, no experience, NH better".

lynam1104 · Jul 12, 2011

Yes but the saders are from NZ and there is a history of choking there.

big ginger 8 · Jul 12, 2011

TRF_nickdnz said:
Aha, so the Reds would win. Any member on this forum knows that superprop's opinion is worth little and almost certainly wrong. Game, set, match.

I love people using experience to say the Reds would lose. The Crusaders have plenty of experience and yet they lost. Also what happened to the people who watched Crusaders v Sharks at Twikenham? Seems like after a week of people saying "amazing, on another level" to people going streight back to "no defence, no experience, NH better".

First up it's big ginger 8 not superprop allow me to clarify that.
I think the Reds have an excellent defence.
Experience can make a difference look at Leinster vs Northampton.
Also you've made it pretty clear you don't rate the N.H. From you it seems "**** ten man rugby think they've good packs but actually useless. Once they come up against any team south of the equator they get there asses kicked."

psychic duck · Jul 12, 2011

big ginger 8 said:
1. Helay vs Daly= Daly despite what I've said Daly was very impressive this year.
2. Strauss vs Faingaa= Strauss, Faingaa's good but Strauss is better.
3. Ross vs Holmes= Ross, he can sacrummage.
4. Cullen vs Simmons= Cullen his experience and leadership wins this.
5. Hines vs Horwill= Equal. Guessing many will say Horwill but Hines is incredibly underrated.
6. O'Brien vs Higginbotham= Equal. Some will say SO'B some Higginbotham so equal.
7. Jennings vs Robinso= Robinson great year for him.
8. Heaslip vs Samo= Heaslip simples. Heaslip is World Class and Samo is only maybe international class.
9. Reddan vs Genia= Genia. He's the best scrum half in the world.
10. Sexton vs Cooper= Cooper. Sexton had a better final but Cooper is better.
11. Fitzgerald vs Ioane= Ioane. Ioane had a great year Fitzgerald a **** one.
12. D'arcy vs Tapuai= Tapuai. What the hell happened to D'arcy?
13. O'Driscoll vs Faingaa= O'Driscoll.
14. Horgan vs Davies= Davies shades it.
15. Nacewa vs Lance= Nacewa.

Scrum=Leinster
Lineout=Even I think the Reds one blows hot and cold.
Experiance=Leinster

Scores:
Leinster 9.5
Reds 8.5

Winners Leinster.

*using teams from respective finals since Leinster played theirs in 2nd half Jennings is there.

I actually agree with most of super props selections here, apart from Healy above Daley (can't forget him and Ma'afu vs England scrum last year) and Horwill maybe above Hines, and even Simmons above Cullen

also superprop, by spelling Healy "Helay" you have just made a mockery of your grudge against Bullitt calling him Healey

big ginger 8 · Jul 12, 2011

Again not ****ing superprop.

Some weird thing happened where I couldn't change the grammar or everything deleted.

Back working in the edit though.

TommyRed · Jul 12, 2011

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Interesting to read the NH perspective on such a match.

Most people here have underrated the Reds completely, others, only slightly.

Some truths:
1. When the Crusaders played the match against the Sharks in London all the London media (from the UK news I read) were openly admitting the Crusaders were the best provincial team in the world and that they'd beat any NH opponent.
2. The Crusaders are chock full of All Black's, whom are also the RWC favourites. The Reds have beaten the Crusaders the last three times they have played them.
3. Leinster's best player two years back was Rocky Elsom. Rocky wouldn't make the run-on team for the Reds on current form. Currently many are saying he's not good enough for Australia. If Leinster rates this guy so highly then maybe their quality of forwards isn't as strong as Leinster fans think it is?
4. Quade Cooper and Will Genia are playing on another level at the moment. Leinster wouldn't have a chance at stopping these guys. You'll find out all about this in September.
5. Brian O'Driscoll is getting past it and wouldn't probably match the muscle and enthusiasm of the Reds mid-field (Faingaa and Tapuai).
6. Nacewa is a 7/10 Fullback at best. Queensland's best fullback is Luke Morahan, whom was injured for the final. This guy will be playing for the Wallabies in September. Think Christian Cullen and then imagine him wearing a Reds jersey.

After watching some Youtube clips (I didn't follow the Heineken Cup 2011) I can see that the Leinster team is a great team. I believe the Reds would do them though as the Reds produce magical football that no-one can defend against. Ask the Kiwi's on this forum and see who they rate, which is something considering their own self-assuredness and unwillingness to vouch for Aussie teams.
For those Heineken Cup and Leinster fans who don't know what I'm talking about go check out www.superxv.com Go to the Videos or Results page and watch the Reds. Watch both games vs the Auckland Blues (one is a semi-final), watch the games against the Cheetahs, Bulls, Stormers and Crusaders. You'll see special things that I've never seen anyone north of the Equator do.

Teh Mite · Jul 12, 2011

TommyRed said:
 <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent>IYou'll see special things that I've never seen anyone north of the Equator do.

</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>

Turnstyle defence?

coonor · Jul 12, 2011

TommyRed said:
Interesting to read the NH perspective on such a match.

Most people here have underrated the Reds completely, others, only slightly.

Some truths:
1. When the Crusaders played the match against the Sharks in London all the London media (from the UK news I read) were openly admitting the Crusaders were the best provincial team in the world and that they'd beat any NH opponent.
2. The Crusaders are chock full of All Black's, whom are also the RWC favourites. The Reds have beaten the Crusaders the last three times they have played them.
3. Leinster's best player two years back was Rocky Elsom. Rocky wouldn't make the run-on team for the Reds on current form. Currently many are saying he's not good enough for Australia. If Leinster rates this guy so highly then maybe their quality of forwards isn't as strong as Leinster fans think it is?
4. Quade Cooper and Will Genia are playing on another level at the moment. Leinster wouldn't have a chance at stopping these guys. You'll find out all about this in September.
5. Brian O'Driscoll is getting past it and wouldn't probably match the muscle and enthusiasm of the Reds mid-field (Faingaa and Tapuai).
6. Nacewa is a 7/10 Fullback at best. Queensland's best fullback is Luke Morahan, whom was injured for the final. This guy will be playing for the Wallabies in September. Think Christian Cullen and then imagine him wearing a Reds jersey.

After watching some Youtube clips (I didn't follow the Heineken Cup 2011) I can see that the Leinster team is a great team. I believe the Reds would do them though as the Reds produce magical football that no-one can defend against. Ask the Kiwi's on this forum and see who they rate, which is something considering their own self-assuredness and unwillingness to vouch for Aussie teams.
For those Heineken Cup and Leinster fans who don't know what I'm talking about go check out www.superxv.com Go to the Videos or Results page and watch the Reds. Watch both games vs the Auckland Blues (one is a semi-final), watch the games against the Cheetahs, Bulls, Stormers and Crusaders. You'll see special things that I've never seen anyone north of the Equator do.

The point that Elsom was Leinster's best player two years ago and cannot get into an Aussie or Reds team now is irrelevant and he would probably struggle to get into Leinster's team now. However two years ago when Rocky was at his best for Leinster he would have walked into the Reds team. We are talking about the Current Leinster and Red players. Cooper and Genia have played brilliantly this year but we have coped with many great Halfback pairings this year. BOD has probably lost abit of pace and acceleration but he is as enthusiastic as ever and he Has coped with "big" centres such as Banahan, Tuilagi, Clarke ect. this year. Nacewa is currently one of the best fullbacks in the NH. Morahan is untested and has not proved himself. How can you compare him to Nacewa in that way.

I am not saying Leinster would win but some of your points have no evidence and are irrelevant. I would back Leinster in Ireland and I would back the Reds in Australia.

snoopy snoopy dog dog · Jul 12, 2011

It's in the Oz media that a clash between the Super Rugby and Heineken Cup winners is under discussion. It would be another meaningless fixture in an already crowded calendar. I have no appetite to watch such a game but if TV money is good enough, it would go ahead. If it does happen, I hope Leinster don't bother picking their top players and instead give youh a run out. The likes of O'Driscoll, Heaslip and O'Brien are needed more in meaningful games like playing away to Aironi in the Pro 12.

TommyRed · Jul 12, 2011

Firstly, Quade Cooper's defensive record does get blown out of proportion. Yes it is his weakness but not so bad that the Reds or Australia suffer because of it.

Nacewa. Watching Super Rugby a few years back I remember him playing for Auckland. Generally a solid player who occassionally pulls some great running movements out of the bag. However he never had a chance making the AB's so he plays for Fiji instead.
I mentioned Morahan because he is a genuis in the making. The flashes of brilliance he has shown this year have meant that Kurtly Beale has a genuine threat for his No 15 jersey. This guy will be the next Wallaby fullback and he be around for a while. He's in the mold of Christian Cullen.

My argument that the Reds would win is mearly based off theory and what I know and have seen of the Reds this season. I do not closely follow the Heineken cup, only sporatically watch the matches. I personally rate the Super 15 Comp as superior to the Heineken Cup. I think that if we had a playoff of the best Heineken Cup teams v the Super Rugby teams that Super Rugby would come out on top. This form is transferable to the International scene as well. The Wallabies will meet the All Blacks in this years RWC final. No NH team will make it that far.

This is only MY personal opinion. Not fact. I just wanted to give an alternative opinion to the vast majority of people here who think that Leinster would roll the Reds.
As neither team is likely to play each other this year I guess the closest we'll have is the Wallabies playing Ireland. Always great matches!!

TRF_Olyy · Jul 12, 2011

TommyRed said:
Nacewa. Watching Super Rugby a few years back I remember him playing for Auckland. Generally a solid player who occassionally pulls some great running movements out of the bag. However he never had a chance making the AB's so he plays for Fiji instead.

Nacewa is Alec Guinness (Genuine Class) - you greatly greatly underestimate him
I have no doubt that if he could've got his 5minutes for Fiji overturned then he would've been capped for the All Blacks

psychic duck · Jul 12, 2011

snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
It's in the Oz media that a clash between the Super Rugby and Heineken Cup winners is under discussion. It would be another meaningless fixture in an already crowded calendar. I have no appetite to watch such a game but if TV money is good enough, it would go ahead. If it does happen, I hope Leinster don't bother picking their top players and instead give youh a run out. The likes of O'Driscoll, Heaslip and O'Brien are needed more in meaningful games like playing away to Aironi in the Pro 12.

I would love to see the Reds v Leinster match

coonor · Jul 12, 2011

TommyRed said:
Firstly, Quade Cooper's defensive record does get blown out of proportion. Yes it is his weakness but not so bad that the Reds or Australia suffer because of it.

Nacewa. Watching Super Rugby a few years back I remember him playing for Auckland. Generally a solid player who occassionally pulls some great running movements out of the bag. However he never had a chance making the AB's so he plays for Fiji instead.
I mentioned Morahan because he is a genuis in the making. The flashes of brilliance he has shown this year have meant that Kurtly Beale has a genuine threat for his No 15 jersey. This guy will be the next Wallaby fullback and he be around for a while. He's in the mold of Christian Cullen.

My argument that the Reds would win is mearly based off theory and what I know and have seen of the Reds this season. I do not closely follow the Heineken cup, only sporatically watch the matches. I personally rate the Super 15 Comp as superior to the Heineken Cup. I think that if we had a playoff of the best Heineken Cup teams v the Super Rugby teams that Super Rugby would come out on top. This form is transferable to the International scene as well. The Wallabies will meet the All Blacks in this years RWC final. No NH team will make it that far.

This is only MY personal opinion. Not fact. I just wanted to give an alternative opinion to the vast majority of people here who think that Leinster would roll the Reds.
As neither team is likely to play each other this year I guess the closest we'll have is the Wallabies playing Ireland. Always great matches!!

You base your points on past evidence that is irrelevant. Nacewa is a quality player. He is capable of magic that rivals that of the Red players including Cooper (jut look at his try against Leicester). He is solid and rarely makes a mistake.

I have followed both tournaments and have seen the brilliance of the Reds but the way Leinster have won the Heineken cup by having to beat the previous years French champions Clermont, the Current English champions Saracens, the French top 14 league runners up Racing Metro, the previous English champions and two time H-cup winners Leicester and the four time champions and holders of the H-cup and current top 14 champions Toulouse all before even getting to the final where they overturned a 16 point deficit at half time to go on to win the European crown. That is a staggering achievement that no one at the start of the season thought could be possible and is hard to rival.

Like I said I am not saying Leinster would win but I am trying to show you just how well Leinster have played since you have not followed them.

Teh Mite · Jul 12, 2011

coonor said:
You base your points on past evidence that is irrelevant. Nacewa is a quality player. He is capable of magic that rivals that of the Red players including Cooper (jut look at his try against Leicester).

Turnstyle defence?

[/echo]

Nacewa is a good, but he's not the second coming. No matter what the Irish media tell you otherwise. Just like the English media with Ashton.

Or for that matter, what the Welsh media tell you about anyone.

staph.glorious · Jul 12, 2011

Ah, but Bullitt.

[MEDIA DARLING] has been [SUPERLATIVE] all season. His defense is [SUPERLATIVE] and his counter-attacking skills are on par with [CURRENT ALL BLACK/WALLABY], if not better. I mean, check out [SOLITARY EXAMPLE IN SEASON] if you don't believe me. He'll definitely walk into [NORTHERN HEMISPHERE SIDE] as [PROVEN INTERNATIONAL] is in poor form, going by [COMPLETE FABRICATION].

[ABOVE ESSENTIALLY REPEATED IN DEFENSIVE AND EXASPERATED TONE, WITH-OR-WITHOUT CHEAP SHOTS]

Teh Mite · Jul 12, 2011

:lol:

Leinster v Queensland Reds

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