Kiwi picks the Lions

[big ginger 8]

Funnily enough I am not.

It is yeah as a third of your team were Leicester players.:lol:

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Thinking about it I feel very embarassed by Englands contribution to the 2009 tour:

*Ugo 'Run fast in a straight line' Monye
*Lee 'most weedy man in the world' Mears
*Phil 'i think I'll let myself get shafted by the Beast' Vickery
*Tom 'flop over the line and nothing else' Croft
*Simon 'Knee Bakkies Botha in the head' Shaw (actually, that would have been fine, shame about the sin-bin)'

I can't even remember how Riki Flutey played, apart from that stupid/awesome flick he did to put someone(Heaslip?) in for a try.

Big Ginger 8: Good squad, but most of the bones I'd have to pick with you over are Irish bones. Do you really think Cronin as better than Hartley? I suspect you'd find few to agree with you there. Keith Earls would be bloody lucky to make a lions tour: missed tacklea won't be appreciated by anyone when the runners are as dangerous as genia, ioane, cooper etc... I don't think Ryan would make the tour on current form of all locks in the equation. Sean O'Brien is a cracking player but I agree with Olly in that if Ireland keep playing him at 7 he may miss out: Warburton, Rennie, Robshaw all better at 7, and there'll be so much competition at 6.

 

[big ginger 8]

Thinking about it I feel very embarassed by Englands contribution to the 2009 tour:

*Ugo 'Run fast in a straight line' Monye
*Lee 'most weedy man in the world' Mears
*Phil 'i think I'll let myself get shafted by the Beast' Vickery
*Tom 'flop over the line and nothing else' Croft
*Simon 'Knee Bakkies Botha in the head' Shaw (actually, that would have been fine, shame about the sin-bin)'

I can't even remember how Riki Flutey played, apart from that stupid/awesome flick he did to put someone(Heaslip?) in for a try.

Big Ginger 8: Good squad, but most of the bones I'd have to pick with you over are Irish bones. Do you really think Cronin as better than Hartley? I suspect you'd find few to agree with you there. Keith Earls would be bloody lucky to make a lions tour: missed tacklea won't be appreciated by anyone when the runners are as dangerous as genia, ioane, cooper etc... I don't think Ryan would make the tour on current form of all locks in the equation. Sean O'Brien is a cracking player but I agree with Olly in that if Ireland keep playing him at 7 he may miss out: Warburton, Rennie, Robshaw all better at 7, and there'll be so much competition at 6.

It was Williams Flutey put in.

I don't rate Hartley at all. Not great really, as I mentioned earlier I think Cronin is a great impact player he's also the most capable in a high tempo game. As I said Earls for his versatility I am in no way his biggest fan but he does cover 13 and the back three. Also in fairness to him while he was missing lots of tackles at the start of the 6n he did improve massively there. He's more a break glass in case of emergency player. Ryan has been in great form (he was Paul Wallace's player of the tour) and is there as my last choice lock also covers 6 and a good leader. I think SO'B has improved so much as a 7 and was dominating N.Z. in the first 2 tests and they're the most clinical team in terms of clearouts. Again his versatility comes into play as he covers the whole backrow.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I rate Earls' versatility at the same level as Banahan - he's a winger who a stupid national coach wants to play elsewhere.
Hopefully Gatland can see he's a winger and nowt else. The thought of Earls even covering 13 for the Lions makes me a bit queasy.
Bowe would cover 13, as a winger, anyway, so I don't see the need for Earls.

 

[big ginger 8]

Suppose as I said I'd rather Fitzgerald (who also covers 12) though as he's Irish as well I'm sure there's going to be something wrong with it.

 

[Draggs]

This is going to be unpopular, but I wouldn't select O'Driscoll
He looked slow against the All Blacks, both in terms of pace and thought. From what I've heard, he has been told to retire, but won't.
Tuilagi or Davies for the outside centre spot I suppose. Roberts-Tuilagi would be powerful but predictable. Beck-Tuilagi could be very interesting.

 

[big ginger 8]

This is going to be unpopular, but I wouldn't select O'Driscoll
He looked slow against the All Blacks, both in terms of pace and thought. From what I've heard, he has been told to retire, but won't.
Tuilagi or Davies for the outside centre spot I suppose. Roberts-Tuilagi would be powerful but predictable. Beck-Tuilagi could be very interesting.

You're right or at least it's unpopular with me. As I've said I think he fantastic in the second test. Third test yeah he was bad but you can't base it off one game. I think he's bound to be in the squad anyway because of his leadership and experience.

 

[Draggs]

You're right or at least it's unpopular with me. As I've said I think he fantastic in the second test. Third test yeah he was bad but you can't base it off one game. I think he's bound to be in the squad anyway because of his leadership and experience.

OK, let me rephrase. I wouldn't start O'Driscoll in the tests. I think he would still offer plenty to the squad, but I just don't know if he is up to this task. If Ashley Cooper is playing at outside centre, then they need to be at the top of their game in midfield (he is a fantastic centre when in form, world class). Jonathan Davies' defence is still worrying, and he is greedy as hell on the ball, overconfident (cost us a few tries).

 

[big ginger 8]

I'd still say BO'D is worldclass anyway we'll see this coming season.

 

[Peat]

To address all points on this page so far

Croft and Shaw were both class for the Lions imo
I'm not sure if Cronin's better than Hartley, as I don't see enough of him, but Hartley is horrendously average so it wouldn't be hard
I think people are hanging onto preconceptions of Earls, he's a lot improved as a 13 both in terms of positioning and vision. Also, there is a serious logical fallacy in criticising him for missing tackles, but then suggesting Rennie ahead of, well, anyone.
Ryan and O'Brien both impressed me on the Tour from Mordor and would probably be in my squad

Draggs may be onto something with O'Driscoll. Or may not. I'd wait to see how the year goes. At the moment I'd select him and Davies, but that's because Tuilagi's refusal to pass infuriates the hell out of me. Similarly, I'd also leave Kearney behind for Hogg, Foden and Halfpenny.

Speaking of utility backs... Jonathan Joseph never got a chance to show his stuff, but he covers wing as well as outside centre and has some serious ability. If he got an opportunity to show what he's about, I'd be quite happy with Joseph and Davies as the lead fighters for the 13 shirt...

 

[Irishflanker]

Earls can also cover fullback, from where he is a cracking strike runner.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Loosehead: Gethin Jenkins, Cian Healey, Alex Corbisero + Possibly Paul James if they haven't changed it to 23-man squads (I heard it changes in the autumn, but I'm not 100 sure)
Hooker: Ross Ford, Rory Best, Ken Owens
Tighthead: Adam Jones, Dan Cole, Mike Ross
Lock: Richie Gray, Alistair Kellock, Ian Evans, Paul O'Connell, Alun Wyn Jones
Flankers: Danny Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Ross Rennie/Justin Tipuric, Ryan Jones
No. 8: Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan, David Denton
Scrum half: Mike Blair, Ben Youngs, Mike Phillips
Fly Half: Jonathan Sexton, Toby Flood, probably Rhys Priestland, though Biggar and Hook have a pretty good shot at it if they can displace him soonish.
Centre: Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies, Manu Tuilagi
Back Three: George North, Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Ben Foden

37-man squad, there. Pretty strong, and there's plenty of cross over, with the likes of Ryan Jones and Sean O'Brien able to provide cover throughout the pack, and Halfpenny and Hogg able to play wing and centre respectively, providing further options, unfortunately for Ashley Beck and Chris Ashton. May end up also taking Hook as the third 10 just for his versatility.

 

[big ginger 8]

Four fullbacks?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

People are forgetting that Adam Jones made quite a lot of tackles in the Australia series, actually many more than people realise, he cleared up where Jenkins didn't. Cole was average on that front, Cole is good but not as good as many are making out.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

To address all points on this page so far

Croft and Shaw were both class for the Lions imo
I'm not sure if Cronin's better than Hartley, as I don't see enough of him, but Hartley is horrendously average so it wouldn't be hard
I think people are hanging onto preconceptions of Earls, he's a lot improved as a 13 both in terms of positioning and vision. Also, there is a serious logical fallacy in criticising him for missing tackles, but then suggesting Rennie ahead of, well, anyone.
Ryan and O'Brien both impressed me on the Tour from Mordor and would probably be in my squad

Draggs may be onto something with O'Driscoll. Or may not. I'd wait to see how the year goes. At the moment I'd select him and Davies, but that's because Tuilagi's refusal to pass infuriates the hell out of me. Similarly, I'd also leave Kearney behind for Hogg, Foden and Halfpenny.

Speaking of utility backs... Jonathan Joseph never got a chance to show his stuff, but he covers wing as well as outside centre and has some serious ability. If he got an opportunity to show what he's about, I'd be quite happy with Joseph and Davies as the lead fighters for the 13 shirt...

Maybe I am living in the past Peat, but let's just say I'd rather not have to witness this in a lions test match...http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/06/26...-earls-out-the-road-on-his-way-to-the-tryline

 

[Peat]

Henry - Fair point well made. He went too high there and no excuse. I'd take him on tour, but he wouldn't make the starting team if he threw too many of those around.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

People are forgetting that Adam Jones made quite a lot of tackles in the Australia series, actually many more than people realise, he cleared up where Jenkins didn't. Cole was average on that front, Cole is good but not as good as many are making out.

Has anyone left Adam Jones out of their squad?

 

[Saintjay]

People are forgetting that Adam Jones made quite a lot of tackles in the Australia series, actually many more than people realise, he cleared up where Jenkins didn't. Cole was average on that front, Cole is good but not as good as many are making out.

I just think people believe that of the two players over all the games Cole had the better tour. Even Eddie Butler who has little love of the English accepts he had a great tour. Cole is five years younger than Jones and experience counts for a great deal at prop. One of the reasons I think Jones is better but the gap is closing.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I would love for tuilagi to go on the lions tour if only to get some coaching on how to pass, i don't think I've ever seen him do it playing for england. I have no doubt that if he doesn't learn to pass he won't even make the mid week side.

oh and cole isn't much use in the loose but is a rock in the scrum, maybe we don't need a real scrummaging pack against the wallabies?

I agree with loads of player selections but here is a few i don't want to tour:

Croft - plays like a wing not a flanker
Tom Waldrum - not english o welsh or scottish or irish
Botha - Just usless
Barritt - So average and not english
Tuilai - Can't pass
Johnson - average no. 6

I hope Jonathan Joseph gets on he is an amazing talent, hartley is very underrated by a lot of people, goo in the 16 shirt or the 2.
I really rate haskell, good player who is playing better than his mindless running around before, very versatile too - maybe bench spot or midweek.


Thats only from an English perspective i know but i don't know much else about the other teams anymore than whats been said above.

 

[Peat]

I'm really not certain at all how anyone can say Cole isn't much use in the loose, and wonder if they've seen the same games I have. Even allowing for Robshaw's marked improvement, Cole is still our best ballhog, and pretty tidy in all other respects in the loose.