June Internationals: Samoa VS Italy (15/06/2013)

[nickdnz]

Samoa were very good - sometimes I wonder why Tusi Pisi breaks the line and sets up tries for Samoa with good awareness and running play, and then for the Hurricanes is so utterly crap most of the time. Great to see Alapati Leiua get the try - he's been good all year for the Canes and he looks to have gotten quicker over the last season.

 

[ozmanoshe]

Samoa were very good - sometimes I wonder why Tusi Pisi breaks the line and sets up tries for Samoa with good awareness and running play, and then for the Hurricanes is so utterly crap most of the time. Great to see Alapati Leiua get the try - he's been good all year for the Canes and he looks to have gotten quicker over the last season.

Pisi plays better behind a dominant pack (as do most backs), Hurricanes forward pack doesn't generate the same degree of go forward and threats as the Samoan pack has. Plus he gets to play inside 2 big centres, who are very direct runners and I feel midfield has been weak for the hurricanes this year, with Bateman in particular being a bit of a weak link for them.

Apart from that I guess it's bit like Ma'a Nonu - wtf amiright?

 

[nickdnz]

Pisi plays better behind a dominant pack (as do most backs), Hurricanes forward pack doesn't generate the same degree of go forward and threats as the Samoan pack has. Plus he gets to play inside 2 big centres, who are very direct runners and I feel midfield has been weak for the hurricanes this year, with Bateman in particular being a bit of a weak link for them.

Apart from that I guess it's bit like Ma'a Nonu - wtf amiright?

I'd agree with the dominant pack theory, Canes don't (and have never really) had a pack which bullies. In centres we have Conrad Smith whose arguably the best centre in the world, but I suppose he isn't all that big, though he always gets over the game line. Bateman has been unimpressive and is small, but his replacement for much of the season has been Ray Lee-Lo or Tusi Pisi neither of which have looked any better. I'd say Ray Lee-Lo has been one of the worst centres in the competition at the moment - doesn't seem to have any kind of awareness, running or passing game - he just occasionally falls over the try line.

But what's most weird is Tusi Pisi's decision making is just totally different for the Canes. I think he works well for the Samoa game plan but can't work under the Canes gameplan (which to be fair has just been 'kick the ball away all the time all season').

And yeah - the Nonusyndrome does seem to apply.

 

[Sam Owen]

Bring on the Bokke!

 

[Jaguares]

Samoa will be a difficult opponent for Boks

 

[Big Ewis]

Bring on the Bokke!

man, I've got to say...Samoa is really, really good right now. Very impressed...

 

[Sam Owen]

Samoa will be a difficult opponent for Boks

Well not many expect us to win and that's totally understandable but I agree with you in that we will be difficult.

man, I've got to say...Samoa is really, really good right now. Very impressed...

I don't think it's the best team we can field though. I'm just happy were still able to play well enough to give the world a fair description of us in that we're able to foot it with the big guns.

 

[ozmanoshe]

Well not many expect us to win and that's totally understandable but I agree with you in that we will be difficult.



I don't think it's the best team we can field though. I'm just happy were still able to play well enough to give the world a fair description of us in that we're able to foot it with the big guns.

Yes on that can anyone tell me what happened to Kahn, George Pise and co.?

I thought the clubs are obligated to release players for international duty or face IRB fines or something like that? Is there anyone who can shed some light on the NH release process.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

What a performance by the Manu Samoa. Can't wait for the Boks game.

Was an awesome peformance by the team. Instead of starting hot and kindve slipping in sections of the game like last week vs Scotland, they were able to patiently assert themselves into the game and were able to eventually fire on all cylinders by the second half and put the Italians to bed. Proud of the team effort and another big win for the Manu Samoa. Our record since the Rugby world cup is now 7 wins and 2 (narrow) losses (to tier one teams). Has been very exciting period for the Manu Samoa after over a decade of mediocrity.

errr yeh sure, wtvr.

That was Australia's attitude before we beat them two years ago. The team is at its best when we have nothing to lose and are riding sky high on confidence. Scotland came close to upsetting the Springboks last night. Now for the Samoan coaching staff to watch the tape and hopefully find some weaknesses we can expose and capitalize on.

Malo lava boys, but can anyone tell me why Samoa has to 'qualify' to play South Africa, whereas the 2 teams we just beat get to play them by default. It really sucks to be the small fish in the ocean as no doubt that scheduling was done; not based on the quality of the teams, but the size of the potential televised audience (no matter what the official line is).

@afakasi - SRU just got a 1million tala cash injection from Sifa and Bluesky, but apparently they need at least 6mil tala (about 2.5mil USD)a year to keep the international squads going.

I don't think half of the posters here appreciate the achievement of the Samoan team matching and beating some of the top professional teams in the world when our supporting infrastructure is barely better than that which was available in the amateur era.

Its a tournement format thats why. Im glad it panned out this way as now each team has played each other once and the fromat has given a purpose for each game.

Most of the world have no idea the adversity Samoa faces just to get on the field. What alot of people do not understand is most of the time the players don't make a cent playing for the Manu Samoa as opposed to those who play for tier 1 countries who make salaries in the thousands per game. At times the players even have to sacrifice forking out of their own pocket or lose money by not playing for their clubs in order to play for the Manu Samoa. Alot of the time the team has rely on donations in order to fund a teams travel and accommodation expenses. Thats one of the main reason alot of the players who could turn out for them don't or opt to pledge their allegiance elsewhere.

On a final note once again I'm appalled by the SAF commentators for our games, they approach the match with such apathy and stereotyping, the Samoa Rugby Union should demand a Samoan commentator be installed as a counterpart for these matches so we don't have to listen to the drivel they dish out. I'm sure it will be even worse when we face the SAF next week

Really? It didnt seem that bad when I was listening.

Sam Owen Samoa will be a difficult opponent for Boks



Well not many expect us to win and that's totally understandable but I agree with you in that we will be difficult.

Malo Sole...been a while.
The game will be difficult but not impossible. As I said before our team is riding high on confidence and the team are going in heavy underdogs. As proven in the pat that is when Samoa is at their best and most dangerous. The one place where I think is of major concern atm is the set piece which was exposed against Italy. The team will need to clean it up as best they can within the next week as South Africa have one of the best, if not the best set piece in international rugby. Unlike the Italians, the Springboks will make us pay dearly if our set piece crumbles on the day.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

Yes on that can anyone tell me what happened to Kahn, George Pise and co.?

I thought the clubs are obligated to release players for international duty or face IRB fines or something like that? Is there anyone who can shed some light on the NH release process.

Kahn opted to play for the Barbarians and I believe he decided to sit this one out as he is healthy. George Pisi not sure but maybe the same reason (just wanted a rest). They deserve a pass if that's the case as they have both been loyal to us in the past and are coming of long seasons at club level. Both however would be first choice players at their position in our run on team.

 

[Sam Owen]

Malo Sole...been a while.
The game will be difficult but not impossible. As I said before our team is riding high on confidence and the team are going in heavy underdogs. As proven in the pat that is when Samoa is at their best and most dangerous. The one place where I think is of major concern atm is the set piece which was exposed against Italy. The team will need to clean it up as best they can within the next week as South Africa have one of the best, if not the best set piece in international rugby. Unlike the Italians, the Springboks will make us pay dearly if our set piece crumbles on the day.

Good to see you back uso. I didnt catch the Italy game (gutted about that) but I read about it (which made me even more gutted). Thanks for your insight on where we are vulnerable. Set piece, we've got to get that sorted. If thats our problem then its a biggie and we can only hope our kamas work hard and play beyond themselves to get it pretty.

Kahn opted to play for the Barbarians and I believe he decided to sit this one out as he is healthy. George Pisi not sure but maybe the same reason (just wanted a rest). They deserve a pass if that's the case as they have both been loyal to us in the past and are coming of long seasons at club level. Both however would be first choice players at their position in our run on team.

Big fan of Kahn, the Barbarians must've been paying big bucks for him to sell out.

Pisi needs to faamalosi if he feels he needs a rest because the team needs him.

 

[Big Ewis]

​

That was Australia's attitude before we beat them two years ago. The team is at its best when we have nothing to lose and are riding sky high on confidence. Scotland came close to upsetting the Springboks last night. Now for the Samoan coaching staff to watch the tape and hopefully find some weaknesses we can expose and capitalize on.

* a weakened Australian side's attitude.
But I see your point.
And actually, I'm not completely sold on the Boks this year. I know they managed a huge score against Italy, but Italy obviously need to regroup and find their spark again, this tournament has been a disaster, not a positive affair...
I've liked the forward work and the scrum, but the backs are still a bit unimpressive. They're not at all the mastodons they were just a few years ago, a lot less intimidating imo. But I still wouldn't bet on Samoa here, though it would be tempting to.

 

[Jaguares]

I couldn't see any match of Samoa this year. But people said they are playing very well. Someone can tell me how they are playing the Samoans? Do you believe they can beat Boks?


From what I hear they are playing very well and no doubt will be very strong opponents for springboks.

Regards

 

[Big Ewis]

I couldn't see any match of Samoa this year. But people said they are playing very well. Someone can tell me how they are playing the Samoans? Do you believe they can beat Boks?


From what I hear they are playing very well and no doubt will be very strong opponents for springboks.

Regards

hey man.
Well I've noticed one clear facet of these new Samoans: to me, they're no longer just the ultra-athletic, keep-ball-in-hand strategy-oriented, always carry never kick big strong guys.
They've added EXCELLENT defense, clearly Tier 1, in that they will no longer concede a bunch of tries and try to make up for it by scoring some themselves. They've added discipline, and true substance to their defense. And when they're focused, they give 100% heart. Hungry as fk, intense for almost the whole 80min.
Their try-scoring is out the roof right now, good strategy, good passing, good fundamentals and can easily string a bunch of passes together to get past the try-line. They don't look "clumsy" with their hands as I'd seen before.
They got their kicking sorted out.

Scrum WILL be a problem against Tier 1 nations. I figured if they play the Boks, NZ, France, England, Wales, Argentina, Italy...the likes of those, they may struggle, but as seen in this very thread's match (ITA SAM), no scrum no problem. They merely paid 7 points for that penalty scrum charge by the Azzurri.

I'm waiting for the Final's thread to say what I think about that Boks matchup.

 

[Big Ewis]

What a problem it was for them in November.

oh...such pretty eyes for an internet geek.
Isn't there somebody monstrously powerful and influential missing in that Welsh scrum by any chance ? I dunno, I'm just...you know, looking for some sort of point you may be trying to make.

You seen that Italy Samoa game by any chance there fellow ?

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

What a problem it was for them in November.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RjlXlcnghf4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hey man. That was then this is now. If you watched the Italy game you wouldve seen our scrum was exposed quite abit in the first three quarters of the game. If the Italians could do what they did against our scrum, I see alot to be concerned with when we play South Africa. Our lineout has been shaky too the last two weeks.

 

[Jaguares]

hey man.
Well I've noticed one clear facet of these new Samoans: to me, they're no longer just the ultra-athletic, keep-ball-in-hand strategy-oriented, always carry never kick big strong guys.
They've added EXCELLENT defense, clearly Tier 1, in that they will no longer concede a bunch of tries and try to make up for it by scoring some themselves. They've added discipline, and true substance to their defense. And when they're focused, they give 100% heart. Hungry as fk, intense for almost the whole 80min.
Their try-scoring is out the roof right now, good strategy, good passing, good fundamentals and can easily string a bunch of passes together to get past the try-line. They don't look "clumsy" with their hands as I'd seen before.
They got their kicking sorted out.

Scrum WILL be a problem against Tier 1 nations. I figured if they play the Boks, NZ, France, England, Wales, Argentina, Italy...the likes of those, they may struggle, but as seen in this very thread's match (ITA SAM), no scrum no problem. They merely paid 7 points for that penalty scrum charge by the Azzurri.

I'm waiting for the Final's thread to say what I think about that Boks matchup.

Then, they improved on defense and discipline but your scrum is still bad. Then a team with good scrum can subject them,I look forward to the match to see Samoa play. Boks made ​​many mistakes against Scotland.

Samoa has great players, they are strong and skilled but always were undisciplined. If they improve their discilplina and smart play can spring a surprise in the next RWC. They should also improve their scrum and line out. In these two facets of the game (scrum and line out) Boks always been strong, so it could give many Samoans problems in the next match.

Regards

 

[Big Ewis]

Hey man. That was then this is now. If you watched the Italy game you wouldve seen our scrum was exposed quite abit in the first three quarters of the game. If the Italians could do what they did against our scrum, I see alot to be concerned with when we play South Africa. Our lineout has been shaky too the last two weeks.

Actually Italy has a better scrum than SA, it's the other way around. A few strong pushes in that match against the Boks...Samoa still needs some improvement there. It's insane when you think Italy's scrum had like 60 less kgs or smt, and they practically destroyed the Samoan scrum the whole match, with all due respect.

Then, they improved on defense and discipline but your scrum is still bad. Then a team with good scrum can subject them,I look forward to the match to see Samoa play. Boks made ​​many mistakes against Scotland.

Samoa has great players, they are strong and skilled but always were undisciplined. If they improve their discilplina and smart play can spring a surprise in the next RWC. They should also improve their scrum and line out. In these two facets of the game (scrum and line out) Boks always been strong, so it could give many Samoans problems in the next match.

Regards

Yes, definitely the areas of concern for Samoa, but boy are they promising. Well more than that, but I think to really take it to the next step they'll have to beat a Sanzar nation, or England or the good France or Argentina. We all know they're capable of that, but will they actually do it; will it appear that way in history books ? That's the only goal.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ easy peasy excited dicky !
I've wayyyy more knowledge about the NBA than I do Rugby, and I can still totally fail at predictions. Nothing to do with logic, knowledge or sheer common sense. I haven't heard any of YOUR predictions, almighty ruler.
So suck on a lollypop and stop annoying ppl with your futile attempts at....wtvr the hell it is you're trying to accomplish here ?! :lol:

Listen dick...duck - uhm....YEH ! listen duck: I was WRONG ok ?!! I was so horribly wrong about the Italians, and now they're going to lose big to Scotland and then the scrum and the Scots wingers and then the...:cryy:
NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE !!!

P.S.: oh and the scrum suffered the WHOLE game, and the Italians got a PENALTY TRY. The hell man ?!

 

[ozmanoshe]

^ easy peasy excited dicky !
I've wayyyy more knowledge about the NBA than I do Rugby, and I can still totally fail at predictions. Nothing to do with logic, knowledge or sheer common sense. I haven't heard any of YOUR predictions, almighty ruler.
So suck on a lollypop and stop annoying ppl with your futile attempts at....wtvr the hell it is you're trying to accomplish here ?! :lol:

Listen dick...duck - uhm....YEH ! listen duck: I was WRONG ok ?!! I was so horribly wrong about the Italians, and now they're going to lose big to Scotland and then the scrum and the Scots wingers and then the...:cryy:
NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE !!!

P.S.: oh and the scrum suffered the WHOLE game, and the Italians got a PENALTY TRY. The hell man ?!

Samoa's scurm issues are all technical. This is essentially the same pack who scrummed against SAF in the World Cup and had parity with them. The problem for the forwards is that we have lost the excellent forwards coach we had for the World Cup who is now ironically with the Blues (whose forwards are average to be honest). We also lost our defensive coach to the All Blacks. Against the Boks, the scrum is less of a worry in my view to the defensive line, especially the chase line on kicks which is quite ragged at the moment.

The vastly superior Bok backline will cause a lot of problems for the Manu if they make the easy yards the Italians and Scots did in the last 2 tests.

Bigger than all these problems though is the ref, lets hope that he doesn't give SAF the rub of the green at every opportunity and blows small infringements out of proportion due to stereotyping.

I always like the ref who reffed the game between Samoa/Italy as he strikes me as a guy who just tries to ref what's in front of him. Northern Hemisphere refs are the biggest ***** when it comes to pinging the **** out of island teams for stuff they let slide against the bigger nations. Fingers crossed we don't have one of these little pricks.