June International Test: South Africa vs. Ireland [1st Test] (11/06/2016)

[j'nuh]

Nope, it would have a negligible effect IMO.

You would reduce hits to the head by saying any boots in the ruck or chargedowns are illegal.

I can definitely see a case for stopping boots in the ruck.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Maybe a law should be implemented saying that you can use boots in the ruck, but if you do so you do it at your own risk as if your boot connects with someones head you get a red. A similar law with charge downs, where you can do it, but at your own risk as if you come into contact with their head you get red carded.

 

[unrated]

A lot of RSA people including myself very gutted right now. Worst possible start for the new coach. Throughout the game i was confident the boks would take back the lead. The Irish played the game very smartly.

 

[Peat]

Peat, your way risks people deliberately using their heads to shield the ball, especially in the ruck. More people could end up getting hurt that way.

Like people deliberately twist in the tackle to land on their necks and get people sent off?

I don't think there's evidence for people in rugby doing that. If it started happening, I'd change my mind.

Rats - Maybe you're right, but needless to say, I don't believe that would be the case.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Like people deliberately twist in the tackle to land on their necks and get people sent off?

Like when people (Sanchez, Habana for example) dive and roll around and screw up their faces to try and get the opposition penalised.... you don't really get that because the situation is banned regardless.

re: boots in the ruck - whether people do it cynically is a different matter, but people do sometimes bring the ball closer to their head if someone is trying to kick it... as happened in the Brown incident.

 

[Ka_Mate]

A lot of RSA people including myself very gutted right now. Worst possible start for the new coach. Throughout the game i was confident the boks would take back the lead. The Irish played the game very smartly.

Allister Coetzee seems exactly the same as Peter de Villiers

 

[nickdnz]

Allister Coetzee seems exactly the same as Peter de Villiers

In what sense exactly? de Villiers started his career beating Wales by over 20 points. He hasn't said anything controversial or stupid I have heard. So in what sense is he exactly the same?

 

[Ka_Mate]

In what sense exactly? de Villiers started his career beating Wales by over 20 points. He hasn't said anything controversial or stupid I have heard. So in what sense is he exactly the same?

You're right, he seems worse.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Urgh that was frustrating to watch and I hope this result (or rather the way we played) is indicatve of anything to come. Well doen to the Irish though. The commitment they brought to the game meant they had more on the field despite being a man down.

This was just too much like watching the Stormers. I suppoert the Stormers, Racing and the Bokke and am married to an archtypical type 'A' personality wife. I must get my head checked.

We all knew there were a few issues and weaknesses or rather misgivings but we all were leaning towards optimism. Unfortunately I think we will have to accept much like Argentina that it'll take time and invariably losses if we are wanting to adapt our game. We tried to shift the ball wide but we did so while no-one was straightening the line or halting the opposion line or making someone second guess their move. The players there either are unused to it or we don't have the right combinations or it just wasn't playing whats in front of you as opposed to being told to play wide and we just gave it to our wings (not our best wings either) and hoped and Ireland could just shift and the wings were always covered by two or three men with no space.
Slapping Mapoe in the middle does not make this a Lions backline. Mapoe is a finisher not a creator, De Allende takes pace off of the ball. Skosan > Mvovo, Coetzee > Le Roux, Combrinck > JPP. Anyone > De Allende (in current nick). I think De Klerk and Jantjies actually went fine. Just put the entire Lions backline in there along with Kriel in for Louw and Whiteley in for Vermeulen.

If we want to evolve our game we have to accept we need the players comfortable with what we are wnating to do. Players like Lambie, Pollard, Hougaard, Reinach, Goosen will be able to fit in. Its not that we don't have the players. We also cannot afford to carry players that won't make an impact off the bench. Bring in Armand van der Merwe. Strauss was anonymous but you simply couldn't replace him because then you'd have Mbonambi.

I know we won't see this (rash?) approach but what I am hoping for for Jo'Burg is the Lions du that got the cold shoulder to get a shot at their home ground and a few more:

1 Mtawarira - who had a busy game
2 Strauss - unless we call up other hookers from outside the squad but that won't happen
3 Redelinghuys - I'm a huge Malherbe fan but that was his poorest game ever
4 Etzebeth - still not at his best back from injury but he has shown time and again he gets beteer every game back
5 Du Toit - has been our form lock, time to start
6 Kriel - our best backrower, time to make choice. If we stick to Louw and Vermeulen we have to make changes elsewhere- time to get an identity.
7 Kolisi - did enough and would be better in a team that plays to his strengths
8 Whiteley - Because I'm supporting SARU's drive to stick to home based players
9 De Klerk - did enought o warrant another start (also we have noone else)
10 Jantjies - because Lambie, Du Preez and Pollard are gonners and the rest are overseas
11 Skosan - we need finishing or at least someone who can keep it alive.
12 Janse van Rensburg - he is more of a monster than De Allende in any case and hungry
13 Mapoe - I can't blame him for a quiet game outside De Allende
14 Combrinck - time to give SA's best winger a shot even if he is white
15 Kriel - Because anyone other than le Roux please. We've suffered enough. For Ireland first try just the fact the scorer went for the ball and Le Roux just didn't seem bothered to even try... does not deserve to be there.

 

[smartcooky]

Maybe a law should be implemented saying that you can use boots in the ruck, but if you do so you do it at your own risk as if your boot connects with someones head you get a red. A similar law with charge downs, where you can do it, but at your own risk as if you come into contact with their head you get red carded.

That already is what the Law says

[TEXTAREA]Law 16 RUCK: DEFINITIONS
A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. Open play has ended.
Players are rucking when they are in a ruck and using their feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball, without being guilty of foul play.[/TEXTAREA]
[TEXTAREA]
Law 16.3 RUCKING
(f) A player rucking for the ball must not intentionally ruck players on the ground. A player rucking for the ball must try to step over players on the ground and must not intentionally step on them. A player rucking must do so near the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I see Ireland u20 beat NZ and SA u20 lost to Argentina. Talk about when it rains it pours!

I can tell you what though. I know my countrymen. The fans will not be happy with anything less than a massacre in Jo'burg.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I hope Ireland view this as just one step in winning the test series. Too often Ireland wallow in good victories instead of pushing on. That mentality contributes to Ireland failing to consistently beat the best teams around. Dare I say it but I wish our players had an attitude more in line with that of the England team.

Terrific backs against the wall win. Very well deserved too. Great that this was achieved with neither Jonny Sexton nor Paul O'Connell around. It'll help foster a new leadership group among the squad.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

What a day. Massive congrats Ireland and what a way to grab your first win down there.

 

[Ospervat]

Its official !!
SA rugby is in trouble. They are a mediocre test nation at best. There has been a gradual erosion of talent, skills, discipline and intellect in SA rugby over the past 8 years. Politics, bias and egotistical agendas are the root of the problem. I don't see a way back any time soon.

So long and thanks for playing.

 

[Maverick1987]

I seem to be the only person out there who thinks this, but I'm okay with that being a red. If you recklessly endanger the head area in just about every other part of the game you get a red, how is a charge down any different?

I just wish I'd known as I'd have gone to the pub with my family instead of staying in to watch this. 60 minutes of rugby with a man advantage usually isn't worth watching.

Might have to get my crash helmet on but I agree with you Peat . He's not really made an effort to charge the ball down tbh . He's recklessly challenged Lambie and he knows what he's doing imo . I don't think he wants to hit him as hard as he does but he means to let him know what's coming .

 

[Maverick1987]

As an England supporter at the time I said it wasn't a red, but objectively looking back at it, it definitely should've been a red.

Said it before say it again . If Murray does what he should do in that situation and releases the ball he doesn't get kicked in the head by another player going after the ball. Let's call it a life lesson .....

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

That already is what the Law says

[TEXTAREA]Law 16 RUCK: DEFINITIONS
A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. Open play has ended.
Players are rucking when they are in a ruck and using their feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball, without being guilty of foul play.[/TEXTAREA]
[TEXTAREA]
Law 16.3 RUCKING
(f) A player rucking for the ball must not intentionally ruck players on the ground. A player rucking for the ball must try to step over players on the ground and must not intentionally step on them. A player rucking must do so near the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

I meant more that it should be clarified that if you do put feet in the ruck and they make contact with an opposition player's head, regardless of the circumstance it's a red.

 

[Ludders93]

I almost can't believe what I saw. Ireland traded at a highest price of 84/1 after going 13-10 down and being reduced to 13 men.

What that means to people who don't bet is that at that exact time, Ireland had about a 1% chance of winning the match.

Only a 3 point gap so you may think an Ireland win wasn't that unlikely, but South Africa had scored 10 unanswered points since the red card, and I think everyone in the world believed South Africa would go on to win by 20+ points.

Sport has thrown up a number of huge shocks this year but that's certainly up there with the most remarkable I've seen. The incredible thing was the apparent ease Ireland achieved the victory with. A few scary moments at the end of both halves near the line, but Ireland were in control for the most part. A brilliant performance, I didn't know they had this in them. Quite staggering.

As for South Africa, I'm not buying all this 'first test of the year' 'new coach' set of excuses. To lose to an understrength Irish side playing with 14 men for 60 minutes is completely unacceptable. The amount of handling errors, the indiscipline, it was a truly pathetic performance. It was as poor as against Argentina last year and not much better than the Japan performance.

The Irish have a right chance of winning the series now. The maths says they still won't, but they've given themselves a chance.

Also worth pointing out their U20 side were 25/1 outsiders to beat New Zealand today. That's a 4% chance before kick-off. they were 27 point underdogs and found a way to win. Gutsy and commendable. Irish rugby biting back!

 

[smartcooky]

Its official !!
SA rugby is in trouble. They are a mediocre test nation at best. There has been a gradual erosion of talent, skills, discipline and intellect in SA rugby over the past 8 years. Politics, bias and egotistical agendas are the root of the problem. I don't see a way back any time soon.

So long and thanks for playing.

So long as the political machinations in your country prevent your rugby coaches from putting the best, merit-based selected team on the park, you are going to struggle.

Madiba will be turning over in his grave right now. He and others like Buthelezi fought hard for the ideals that would lead to merit based selection of South Africa's teams. The current crop of political arseholes have taken South African sport back 20 years... only the colours have changed.

Its time South Africa was suspended from the IOC, FIFA and WR until they sort out the racism in their sporting selection policies!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Said it before say it again . If Murray does what he should do in that situation and releases the ball he doesn't get kicked in the head by another player going after the ball. Let's call it a life lesson .....

That just doesn't correlate with "He's recklessly challenged Lambie and he knows what he's doing imo". Brown knew what he was doing and knew, more so than Stander (when has someone's arse ever knocked anyone out?), that what he was doing could do damage.
Brain damage is a risk that you take everytime you step on to a rugby pitch but there is no "life lesson" in this game that should ever potentially result in that, especially an offence that will never result in a card of any colour. If you think Stander deserved a red, a completely fair opinion, and Brown did not, another fair but contrasting opinion, you're showing bias in some form. This is a rare topic in rugby that is Black or White; getting something legal marginally wrong and causing a head injury is a red card and a ban, this is what I believe should be the law, or a legal act doesn't deserve punishment regardless of the end result, the precedent set in the Brown case which should be upheld by World Rugby until a law change to fix it is made and an argument made by many, yourself included, on these boards. These are the only two acceptable arguments in this case and the only arguments which anyone on this thread until your contribution has made, whether it's a rose, fern, shamrock or Bok on the jersey these opinions shouldn't change but I feel your judgment has been clouded in this case.

... 4am, haven't had squat since 1.30... I feel now that I could have got more ****ed...