June International Test: South Africa vs. Ireland [1st Test] (11/06/2016)

[munstermuffin]

Guilty or not, I think even one game without CJ will rob the fans in SA and Ireland. Do NOT think the ban was necessary, except if a red card means automatic ban(I don't know). Personally I'm ashamed of the way we played. At least give Ireland a go, it's not just 20 km from Ireland to SA you know......pathetic scrums, pathetic line outs, pathetic handling.

Personally it may have opposite effect. I expect ye to win as there's too many factors like tiredness and altitude and I'm sure a SA backlash. But for 3rd test we will be fired up and I'm sure SA will be and we will have chips on shoulders for different reasons with a series on line.

 

[SomeOke]

Guilty or not, I think even one game without CJ will rob the fans in SA and Ireland. Do NOT think the ban was necessary, except if a red card means automatic ban(I don't know). Personally I'm ashamed of the way we played. At least give Ireland a go, it's not just 20 km from Ireland to SA you know......pathetic scrums, pathetic line outs, pathetic handling.

For what it's worth we did win all of our scrums and lost 1/15 line-outs (Ireland lost 2/10).
I know there is a difference between losing a scrum and being dominated in one but still.

I don't think set-piece was our issue, for me the main issue was lack of drive and passion from the players but from a more technical stand-point I'd say we were trying a game plan we were unfamiliar with, with new players and a new coach.
These things take time and I'm willing to give the team and AC some more time before I completely write them off.

 

[munstermuffin]

For what it's worth we did win all of our scrums and lost 1/15 line-outs (Ireland lost 2/10).
I know there is a difference between losing a scrum and being dominated in one but still.

I don't think set-piece was our issue, for me the main issue was lack of drive and passion from the players but from a more technical stand-point I'd say we were trying a game plan we were unfamiliar with, with new players and a new coach.
These things take time and I'm willing to give the team and AC some more time before I completely write them off.

Just on this though. If AC does struggle etc where do South Africa go then. Like it kind of feels like it's a job interest is declining in would that be fair to say. I agree though in that AC needs time to be allowed bed in his new ideas and players. Like I've watched enough rugby this year to know de Klerk is a much better 9 than we seen on Saturday. Guys like that need to be allowed settle in to test rugby

 

[Jimbo87]

Stander was allowed to charge down a kick too.
Let's say Murray loses an eye, would your argument be that he deserved it for committing the most common offence in rugby? Awful argument.
That more qualified men argument? Fallacious Ad Verecundiam mate, been caught out on that myself would ya believe!

Just watched the replay back he moves the ball on the floor more than once, add to that Mike is being moved backwards it's hardly comparable...

No one is saying anyone deserves to loose an eye.

 

[WaterboySA]

For what it's worth we did win all of our scrums and lost 1/15 line-outs (Ireland lost 2/10).
I know there is a difference between losing a scrum and being dominated in one but still.

I don't think set-piece was our issue, for me the main issue was lack of drive and passion from the players but from a more technical stand-point I'd say we were trying a game plan we were unfamiliar with, with new players and a new coach.
These things take time and I'm willing to give the team and AC some more time before I completely write them off.

Not looking for an argument for once, but I have to differ. Set pieces are VERY important in the Boks game. Not only could we not dominate scrums, but we couldn't dominate against 7 forwards and a wing.....

Line outs - I saw more than one ball that our much acclaimed reserve hooker tried to throw to either the middle or back, that was overthrown and lost(as far as I can remember, he could only find his number 2 jumper, and the Irish knew that, because they countered us every time), so I can't believe those stats, someone mentioned here that Scarra also missed his jumpers. I call bullsheehit.

We looked SO bad, I would've called match fixing if I didn't know that we actually ARE that bad. They should be forced to keep playing in that white jersey. They don't deserve to wear the green and gold.

 

[saulan]

Ntubeni, April and Notshe have been completely left out of the SA A 23 for the second match (odd when you want to test April and Notshe was the best player we had on the field). Anyone think there is a possibility they may be mixing with the Bok squad again?

- - - Updated - - -

On another note, I tried checking out Notshe's Facebook page to see if there were any pictures posted there which may give some information on the above, and I just thought I would share this, I think he may need to update his career information:

Ah, found information on it:
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/sergeal-wings-it-for-sa-a-2034669

This means that Garth April, Nic Groom, Sikhumbuzo Notshe and Scarra Ntubeni will remain with the Boks in Johannesburg ahead of Saturday's second Test against Ireland at Ellis Park.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ntubeni, April and Notshe have been completely left out of the SA A 23 for the second match (odd when you want to test April and Notshe was the best player we had on the field). Anyone think there is a possibility they may be mixing with the Bok squad again?

- - - Updated - - -

On another note, I tried checking out Notshe's Facebook page to see if there were any pictures posted there which may give some information on the above, and I just thought I would share this, I think he may need to update his career information:

Ah, found information on it:
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/sergeal-wings-it-for-sa-a-2034669

Not surprised about the guys dropped from the 'A' side'. I think they wanted to test April but had thought that he'd fare better than he did. Its a bit of a much over muchness who plays at 10 since they would all be behind Pollard, Lambie, Jantjies, Steyn and Goosen so I guess they put more value in a win than development of depth at 10. On Notshe I can only think they want to play a tighter game or just play better to teh ruck? Carr dropping to the bench also is a move in that direction. Can't think that Notshe would get promoted, surely not at the expense of Jaco Kriel? Ntubeni shouldn't have been there in the first place as Mbonambi shouldn't have been on the Bok bench and we all know that. A hooker's first duty is at the set piece.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Not surprised about the guys dropped from the 'A' side'. I think they wanted to test April but had thought that he'd fare better than he did. Its a bit of a much over muchness who plays at 10 since they would all be behind Pollard, Lambie, Jantjies, Steyn and Goosen so I guess they put more value in a win than development of depth at 10. On Notshe I can only think they want to play a tighter game or just play better to teh ruck? Carr dropping to the bench also is a move in that direction. Can't think that Notshe would get promoted, surely not at the expense of Jaco Kriel? Ntubeni shouldn't have been there in the first place as Mbonambi shouldn't have been on the Bok bench and we all know that. A hooker's first duty is at the set piece.

I wouldn't read too much into that though. AC has been vocal this week in that he won't make wholesale changes for the 2nd test. My guess is that if there are going to be changes, then it would be:

3. Julian Redelinghuys in place of Frans Malherbe
5. PSDT in place of Lood De Jager
7. Jaco Kriel in place of Francois Louw or Siya Kolisi
14. Ruan Combrinck in place of JP Pietersen

I doubt that there would be other changes, maybe Warren Whiteley and Duane Vermeulen swap as well. I just think that AC is going to pick a few more Lions players because it's on their home field and the way in which he singled out the Lions team and coaches ahead of this series. It's clear that he has a lot of admiration for them and will promote the guys selected.

Remember that when HM took over he had about 12 debutants in the first year in charge, with the idea of getting the team ready for the World Cup. Maybe AC will do the same, and he knows the benefit of that while being assistant coach under Jake White's reign.

I think the fringe players that has been left out of the "A" team, has been probably given the chance to join the Bok camp to get more acquinted with the Springbok culture.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wouldn't read too much into that though. AC has been vocal this week in that he won't make wholesale changes for the 2nd test. My guess is that if there are going to be changes, then it would be:

3. Julian Redelinghuys in place of Frans Malherbe
5. PSDT in place of Lood De Jager
7. Jaco Kriel in place of Francois Louw or Siya Kolisi
14. Ruan Combrinck in place of JP Pietersen

I doubt that there would be other changes, maybe Warren Whiteley and Duane Vermeulen swap as well. I just think that AC is going to pick a few more Lions players because it's on their home field and the way in which he singled out the Lions team and coaches ahead of this series. It's clear that he has a lot of admiration for them and will promote the guys selected.

All of those I'd welcome. I'm not too fussed on Malherbe though. Certainly last Saturday was his worst game in.. erm, white yet. Personally I'd give him another shot but wouldn't mind Redelinghuys starting (at home and all).

I think Combrinck is an upgrade over JPP but would rather Combrinck replace Le Roux who frustrates me no end. So either Combrinck to replace Le Roux or Jesse Kriel to replace Le Roux with Combrinck on the wing and JPP on the bench for me. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[TRF_heineken]

All of those I'd welcome. I'm not too fussed on Malherbe though. Certainly last Saturday was his worst game in.. erm, white yet. Personally I'd give him another shot but wouldn't mind Redelinghuys starting (at home and all).

I think Combrinck is an upgrade over JPP but would rather Combrinck replace Le Roux who frustrates me no end. So either Combrinck to replace Le Roux or Jesse Kriel to replace Le Roux with Combrinck on the wing and JPP on the bench for me. We'll have to wait and see.

I don't get the frustration over Willie. What did he do wrong? He was the only guy in our backline actually trying to make chances (sure, his step to the outside was used a lot), it was the support runners not assisting him. It looked to me that Mvovo and JPP didn't know when to stay out or cut back in.