June International Test: Australia vs. England [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Lots of players do that (Tuilagi for example), I fail to see why this marks him out particularly.

Edit: Plus, Ford WANTS to tackle him that way. He doesn't want a head on collision, he wants to take him from the side and sacrifice some yards for an easier tackle.

Kerevi and Tuilagi are the only big 12s I've seen do it at 12, and Tuilagi hasn't done it with great effect in a couple of years (I think the only time he's really done it since was the Tigers-Glaws game). And I don't think the part about Ford wanting to tackle him that way is necessarily true, in theory it is, but on the field I think Kerevi would be able to kick straight through the tackle. At leats in a head on collision, he slows him down a lot and allows support to get there.

Anyway, this Kerevi argument is exhausted so let's move onto something else. I probably have exaggerated him too much, but when you see what he's doing in Super Rugby and then think that he's only 22, he is a truly incredible prospect. I'm sure we can agree on that?

 

[spartan32]

None like Kerevi though. He didn't show up much in the last test, but good God the kid can run. I doubt Ford has ever come across a big also has the pace and skill that Kerevi possesses, he is truly a freak, more so than Roberts, Tuilagi, McCloskey, the lot of them.

He may be handy but if the argument is about size then I agree that Ford has faced down numerous guys as big and does just fine. Plus Hask will no doubt live to smash up the new boy.

Also I don't think the centres really stood out for the Aussies last time round. Back row, Falou, and Foley all looked pretty sharp, as dos Phipps for that matter, but the centres didn't really blow me away.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Anyway, this Kerevi argument is exhausted so let's move onto something else. I probably have exaggerated him too much, but when you see what he's doing in Super Rugby and then think that he's only 22, he is a truly incredible prospect. I'm sure we can agree on that?

Nope.

He's a decent to good prospect, not an incredible one... Akira Ioane is an "incredible" prospect.

 

[spartan32]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODH8taNaZ3I feel free to have a gander. 18 seconds in is a perfect display of his "freakishness." Sadly, a highlights video has not been made of him this season, as this is the year that he's really stepped his game up, but I think there's enough here to show that, purely as a runner he has Roberts, McCloskey and Manu beat. Maybe not pre 2014 Manu, but certainly Manu of recent form. There are also some top quality offloads in there, which show off his skill.

I probably did over exaggerate him a bit at first, but he is undeniably a hell of a player, and I think it's 100% fair to call him a freak. And when you think that he's younger than Slade or Ford (Only 22) and think of how far he still has to come, it's a terrifying thought. Especially if the Wallabies decide to play him in his position (13).

So he plays well at Super Rugby. Means very little in some ways. Goode plays very well in the AP, player of the year, can't translate it to test rugby, not even on the bench. Test rugby is a different level. So much more at stake, more intensity, more pressure, more scrutiny. Not all players can handle it. In the last game I didn't think that much of him. If his feet and pace are really that good then at wing or centre he should have stood out, and he didn't. Foley did, as did Falou, but not him. Maybe he'll pick his game up, or maybe he will turn out to be another player who just couldn't make the step up, or maybe Hask will smash him up, only time will tell.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

So he plays well at Super Rugby. Means very little in some ways. Goode plays very well in the AP, player of the year, can't translate it to test rugby, not even on the bench. Test rugby is a different level. So much more at stake, more intensity, more pressure, more scrutiny. Not all players can handle it. In the last game I didn't think that much of him. If his feet and pace are really that good then at wing or centre he should have stood out, and he didn't. Foley did, as did Falou, but not him. Maybe he'll pick his game up, or maybe he will turn out to be another player who just couldn't make the step up, or maybe Hask will smash him up, only time will tell.

The AP is very different to SR. In some ways Super Rugby is probably harder to compete in than International Rugby. But yes, I agree that he may not be able to translate his ability to Inter level, but I hope he can as he looks like a real talent.

 

[TobesHodges]

Re-watched the first test and the pundits saying Ford 10 Farrell 12 is now a "class" pairing and "now has a lot of answers", but a year ago when they played along side each other they were very poor. What's changed? Has Ford got better? Has Farrell got better? Or is it Jones's influence? Was wondering on people's opinions, because 8-12 months ago I was one of them saying Farrell and ford can never play along side each other, but look..

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Re-watched the first test and the pundits saying Ford 10 Farrell 12 is now a "class" pairing and "now has a lot of answers", but a year ago when they played along side each other they were very poor. What's changed? Has Ford got better? Has Farrell got better? Or is it Jones's influence? Was wondering on people's opinions, because 8-12 months ago I was one of them saying Farrell and ford can never play along side each other, but look..

Farrell has come on leaps and ou da recently and Jones seems to bring the best out of players. I also think that when you take away the pressure of kicking from Ford he plays much better as a play maker. That's why I think it works so well now

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think partly they're getting better ball from the forwards. Every playmaker looks better behind a good pack.

Other than that I think Farrell is currently playing very well and Ford is (despite conventional wisdom) playing as well as ever - for England at least. I do think their styles mesh quite well, GF likes to play close to the line and has a really good short passing game. OH plays deeper and hasa good flat, wide pass to get the ball to the wide channel quickly, I guess like any partnership they're improving with more games together. What's interesting for me is that you'd expect a fly-half at 12 to kick from hand a lot, but actually OH doesn't - I hardly remembering him kicking at the weekend and the ESPN stats* back me up, apparently he only kicked twice, less that Youngs, Ford and Brown. He isn't actually seen by EJ, I don't think, as a major kicking from hand option.

I've been very anti-Farrell-at-12 in the past, but I'm definitely starting to cautiously come on board ... for now.

*Side note, I haven't tried to look at match stats on ESPN for a while, this new website is absolutely terrible. Completely unintuitive and I can't find anything I look for. I wanted to compare Ford/Farrell's kicking out of hand stats for the 6N, but couldn't even find match stats for 6N 2016 games.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The AP is very different to SR. In some ways Super Rugby is probably harder to compete in than International Rugby. But yes, I agree that he may not be able to translate his ability to Inter level, but I hope he can as he looks like a real talent.

Ummm not really, the AP has much better set pieces and defence than super rugby. Furthermore to say that is harder than international rugby is just a joke. I've seen school rugby teams with better tackling than super rugby.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

LOL Aussies are so whiney

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...d-englands-meeting-with-referee-craig-joubert

 

[tsof]

Re-watched the first test and the pundits saying Ford 10 Farrell 12 is now a "class" pairing and "now has a lot of answers", but a year ago when they played along side each other they were very poor. What's changed? Has Ford got better? Has Farrell got better? Or is it Jones's influence? Was wondering on people's opinions, because 8-12 months ago I was one of them saying Farrell and ford can never play along side each other, but look..

I think there's a few reasons in reality. None more so than the fact that Farrell's game has come on leaps and bounds over the course of this season. At Sarries he is playing a more expansive game, taking it to the line a lot more. His performance away at Ulster in the HC was a real coming of age for him in being a more attacking threat and he's continued that since then. Not to be underestimated.

There's also the fact that they've had the consistency of selection as a pairing. Lancaster frequently spoke about the two playing as a pairing but rarely did, IIRC. (Due to both injury and Lancaster bottling it) Jones hasn't had that issue and stuck by them - even if they didn't look comfortable in his first few games.

 

[XIII]

So he plays well at Super Rugby. Means very little in some ways. Goode plays very well in the AP, player of the year, can't translate it to test rugby, not even on the bench. Test rugby is a different level. So much more at stake, more intensity, more pressure, more scrutiny. Not all players can handle it. In the last game I didn't think that much of him. If his feet and pace are really that good then at wing or centre he should have stood out, and he didn't. Foley did, as did Falou, but not him. Maybe he'll pick his game up, or maybe he will turn out to be another player who just couldn't make the step up, or maybe Hask will smash him up, only time will tell.

The past saturday was Kerevi's first test match so is not a surprise that he had a quiet game. About Foley and Folau playing well, come on, not only they have more experience than him at test level, they also have more experience at club level, furthermore, they have been playing for Cheika for 3 years or so.

Ummm not really, the AP has much better set pieces and defence than super rugby. Furthermore to say that is harder than international rugby is just a joke. I've seen school rugby teams with better tackling than super rugby.

What is the logic behind those delusional statements?, better set pieces?, maybe, but the thing about defense, you must be joking.

 

[Prestwick]

You may not agree with that statement and you may call such sentiments delusional but the the perception now is that last weekend's game was the wild ship of Super Rugby attacking extravagance being ship wrecked upon the cold hard jagged rocks of Northern Hemisphere defensive reality.

If anything, I believe last weekend's games across the board proves that the international game is a step above all club and franchised competitions and that it would be silly to assume that because one competition may appear to have the edge over others that form will somehow find its way up into the international game.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You may not agree with that statement and you may call such sentiments delusional but the the perception now is that last weekend's game was the wild ship of Super Rugby attacking extravagance being ship wrecked upon the cold hard jagged rocks of Northern Hemisphere defensive reality.

If anything, I believe last weekend's games across the board proves that the international game is a step above all club and franchised competitions and that it would be silly to assume that because one competition may appear to have the edge over others that form will somehow find its way up into the international game.

They ran 4 tries past us, and broke our defensive line repeatedly. I think saying that we won through our "cold hard jagged rocks of Northern Hemisphere defence" is frankly inaccurate. We won through the Aussies giving away (lots of) penalties and making some poor mistakes and decisions.

- - - Updated - - -

Ummm not really, the AP has much better set pieces and defence than super rugby. Furthermore to say that is harder than international rugby is just a joke. I've seen school rugby teams with better tackling than super rugby.

1. I don't think AP defence is better, just SR attack is much better than AP attack, so the defence appears worse.
2. I think you misread my post, I didn't say the SR was harder than international rugby, I said it was harder in some ways. For example, it's much faster paced and so is going to challenge players' fitness much more. Obviously international rugby as a whole is far more challenging than SR, but there are aspects of SR which I would argue are probably harder on the players.

 

[Peat]

Re-watched the first test and the pundits saying Ford 10 Farrell 12 is now a "class" pairing and "now has a lot of answers", but a year ago when they played along side each other they were very poor. What's changed? Has Ford got better? Has Farrell got better? Or is it Jones's influence? Was wondering on people's opinions, because 8-12 months ago I was one of them saying Farrell and ford can never play along side each other, but look..

Partly its a system that suits them.

Partly its utter depression over a lack of other answers.

It works but its far from ideal. Happily we're in good company there.

 

[spartan32]

LOL Aussies are so whiney

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...d-englands-meeting-with-referee-craig-joubert

Seems to me the Aussies are getting pretty nervous about this game, and clearly want to try and influence the ref prior to kick off. It's a shame they can't do their talking on the pitch and just play to the ref on the day. Good sign for England though. Their confidence is on the wane while ours is on the rise.

I really hope after all these shenanigans we smash them up front in this game. Be great to see a winey Aussie pack crumbling in front of a home crowd.

 

[spartan32]

The AP is very different to SR. In some ways Super Rugby is probably harder to compete in than International Rugby. But yes, I agree that he may not be able to translate his ability to Inter level, but I hope he can as he looks like a real talent.

I think it's very hard to judge which is is better. SR or AP. The only way to really know for sure would be to out our best against theirs and as that's not going to happen who knows. Certainly AP teams play a different style, but that's as much to do with with Enviromental conditions as much as anything. But to say that SR is up there, or even above test rugby is just none sense.

 

[Jaguares]

Nope.

He's a decent to good prospect, not an incredible one... Akira Ioane is an "incredible" prospect.

Akira Ioane better than Samu Kerevi? In what planet do you live? Kerevi has played 3 times more games than Ioane at Super Rugby level and Kerevi already has played as starter at Test level. I can't see Iaone reach that goal next year. He's under Luatua at Blues squad

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Akira Ioane better than Samu Kerevi? In what planet do you live? Kerevi has played 3 times more games than Ioane at Super Rugby level and Kerevi already has played as starter at Test level. I can't see Iaone reach that goal next year. He's under Luatua at Blues squad

TBF, he didn't say he was better, he said he was a better prospect, which is probably true. As for the not getting as many Super Rugby starts and being behind Luatua, that's because he's been with the 7s so hasn't gotten to train with them much.

But you are right that at the moment Kerevi is a better player than Ioane. Ioane has a much higher ceiling though.

 

[Jaguares]

TBF, he didn't say he was better, he said he was a better prospect, which is probably true. As for the not getting as many Super Rugby starts and being behind Luatua, that's because he's been with the 7s so hasn't gotten to train with them much.

But you are right that at the moment Kerevi is a better player than Ioane. Ioane has a much higher ceiling though.

Akira was born in 1995 and Kerevi in 1993, they are almost the same age group. And I can see Kerevi as a proved starter Super Rugby player and almost a test player while Akira is only a 7s player. In NZ a 7s player is nothing. DJ Forbes couldn't make Super Rugby level so he focused in the quick game. 7s is for young players or limited players.