June International Test: Australia vs. England [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[j'nuh]

Yarde was our best starting back three last week... very harsh on him. No winger replacements means no chance of seeing Nowell or Watson at fullback at any point, which is a shame.

Don't like the 6/2 split. Never have. Too easy to end up with players playing out of position.

Was hoping to see Launchbury at 6.

George for LCD is a good call though.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yarde was our best starting back three last week... very harsh on him. No winger replacements means no chance of seeing Nowell or Watson at fullback at any point, which is a shame.

Don't like the 6/2 split. Never have. Too easy to end up with players playing out of position.

Was hoping to see Launchbury at 6.

George for LCD is a good call though.

Daly comfortably covers wing. Nowell over Yarde is undoubtedly the right call, far more reliable. Yarde scored a try that anyone could've walked in and got bumped off/driven backwards in defence by Folau and Kurudrani. Doesn't have the defence, or IMO the attacking ability for international rugby. Yet.

Although I agree there are risks with a 6/2, it's the right call for the game plan England are going with. No 10/12 cover does scare me though.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yarde was our best starting back three last week... very harsh on him.

International selection is a harsh game. EJ would be mad to drop Watson for one bad game when he has been excellent for England, and clearly despite form issues Brown remains part of the plans for now. Unfortunately it looks like Yarde was just a stopgap to give Nowell a rest, he needed an outstanding game to keep his place, rather than a mediocre to decent one.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Daly comfortably covers wing, and what game were you watching to think Yarde was our best back? JJ was far better. Yarde scored a try that anyone could've walked in and made a couple of decent tackles, but also got bumped off or driven metres backwards in defence. Nowell over him is undoubtedly the right call.

Although I agree there are risks with a 6/2, it's the right call for the game plan England are going with. No 10/12 cover does scare me though.

Have to agree Nowell is the right call, I think he said best back three player though - which is fair. None of them set the world alight.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Have to agree Nowell is the right call, I think he said best back three player though - which is fair. None of them set the world alight.

Yup, my fault there, misread what he said. I've corrected my post.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Pocock being out prob means we can afford to have more of a ball carring forward replacement.

Not a fan of 6/2 split but I can understand it.

 

[spartan32]

Yarde was our best starting back three last week... very harsh on him. No winger replacements means no chance of seeing Nowell or Watson at fullback at any point, which is a shame.

Don't like the 6/2 split. Never have. Too easy to end up with players playing out of position.

Was hoping to see Launchbury at 6.

George for LCD is a good call though.

EJ is playing to our strengths, which is clearly in the forwards. If we can really bash them about up front for 60 mins and then bring in nearly an entirely fresh set of forwards that's going to hit them hard, plus no Pockock to cause as many problems, although their back row is still pretty potent.

Plus they don't have the kind of weighty centres that can cause smaller defending backs problems so Daly as cover works for me.

 

[Jakedood]

EJ is playing to our strengths, which is clearly in the forwards. If we can really bash them about up front for 60 mins and then bring in nearly an entirely fresh set of forwards that's going to hit them hard, plus no Pockock to cause as many problems, although their back row is still pretty potent.

Plus they don't have the kind of weighty centres that can cause smaller defending backs problems so Daly as cover works for me.

Kerevi and Kuridrani are massive!

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Daly was subbed on at 12 a few times in the Six Nations. For all we know he's been training there too.

I do think that was more in the interests of building his versatility to be the ultimate 23 than any long term aim.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Daly was subbed on at 12 a few times in the Six Nations. For all we know he's been training there too.

I do think that was more in the interests of building his versatility to be the ultimate 23 than any long term aim.

He was subbed on at 12 once against Ireland. Against Wales he replaced JJ at 13, and didn't come on any other times than that. Other than that, he started at 12 once for Wasps and that's the extent of his 12-playing this season. I would've thought Jones is planning to put him at 12 for Faz/Ford or 15 if Brown performs badly again. Can't see him going on at 13 unless JJ's injured. He may go wing if Jones would prefer to put him there with Watson/Nowell going to 15 in the case of Brown going off. I doubt it though. TBH I think Slade would've been a better choice, as if Ford or Faz go off we have no real 12 option, or if they were both to go off (unlikely, but I can see Oz targeting them) there's no 10 cover, so Slade would've been ideal.

 

[j'nuh]

EJ is playing to our strengths, which is clearly in the forwards. If we can really bash them about up front for 60 mins and then bring in nearly an entirely fresh set of forwards that's going to hit them hard, plus no Pockock to cause as many problems, although their back row is still pretty potent.

Plus they don't have the kind of weighty centres that can cause smaller defending backs problems so Daly as cover works for me.

But in practice, that isn't how Jones does things. Timings for when our forwards came on:
60' - Lawes
66' - Mullan, Hill
72' - LCD, Launchbury

So on average, our forward replacements had 13 minutes to make an impact. As a result, our collective 5 forward replacements made 1 run and 11 tackles between the lot of them.

And tbf I agree with Jones about not bringing players off for the sake of it. If a player is playing well and maintaining fitness, don't bring them off. But a 6/2 bench is right for when you want to start bringing forwards on around 50 minutes in, and have all of them on the field by the 65th minute, to allow the fresh legs to make an impact.

Otherwise, I don't see much worth of having another forward on the bench to come on at the very end, sacrificing backline cover and presenting us with the worry of injuries forcing loads of people out of position. I mean, what you have in effect is Daly covering 11-15. I know he's versatile, but I doubt Jones has prepared him for coming on in so many positions!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

EJ is playing to our strengths, which is clearly in the forwards. If we can really bash them about up front for 60 mins and then bring in nearly an entirely fresh set of forwards that's going to hit them hard, plus no Pockock to cause as many problems, although their back row is still pretty potent.

Plus they don't have the kind of weighty centres that can cause smaller defending backs problems so Daly as cover works for me.

This must've been sarcasm?! Kerevi's 108kg and Kuridrani's 102kg. When you also consider that the 103kg Folau likes popping up in the centre channel every now and again, Oz have more fire power coming through the centre than any other team in the world. Hopefully Jones has instructed the back row to cover Ford, because if not, he's f***ed.

Vunipola Mullan-1
Hartley George-2
Cole Hill-3
Itoje Launchbury-4
Kruis Lawes-5
Robshaw Clifford-6
Haskell Clifford-7
Vunipola Clifford-8
Youngs Care-9
Ford Farrell-10, Daly-12
Nowell Daly-11
Farrell Daly-12
Joseph Daly-13
Watson Daly-14
Brown Daly-15

I would imagine that this is how substitutions will work in the event of injury. So really, if more than 1 player outside of 10 is injured then we're in some pretty major trouble, as Daly is the only man there to cover. If everything goes to plan and there are no injuries, I would expect the final team to be:

Mullan
George
Hill
Launchbury
Lawes
Itoje
Haskell
Clifford
Care
Farrell
Nowell
Daly
Joseph
Watson
Brown

I don't expect Eddie to trust Ford with a whole game, and when he's up against the monsters that he is at centre, I'm not sure it would be smart to expect him to have a full game there, which means moving Daly out of position to 12.

 

[Zed]

Yarde was our best starting back three last week... very harsh on him. No winger replacements means no chance of seeing Nowell or Watson at fullback at any point, which is a shame.

Don't like the 6/2 split. Never have. Too easy to end up with players playing out of position.

Was hoping to see Launchbury at 6.

George for LCD is a good call though.

Why was he dropped? I can't remember him making any obvious errors. I was a bit surprised that he wasn't more powerful though, 100kgs 6'2 and pacey, he hit a few guys flat out and was tackled pretty easily. I would have thought he'd be the kind of player to make lots of little half breaks and be difficult to put down a la Manu Tuilagi.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Why was he dropped? I can't remember him making any obvious errors. I was a bit surprised that he wasn't more powerful though, 100kgs 6'2 and pacey, he hit a few guys flat out and was tackled pretty easily. I would have thought he'd be the kind of player to make lots of little half breaks and be difficult to put down a la Manu Tuilagi.

1. Nowell's better. Simple as that. He did more for England in the 11 minutes he was on than Yarde did in the whole game.
2. Got bullied in defence and did nothing in attack either (I don't think anyone would argue that his try was down to his attacking capabilities).
3. Only covers wing. When you've got a bench of 6/2 you want your backs to be able to cover more than one position (Nowell 13-Wing-15, Watson Wing-15, JJ 13-Wing, Brown Wing-15, Faz 10-12) This also rules out him being on the bench.

 

[XIII]

Why was he dropped? I can't remember him making any obvious errors. I was a bit surprised that he wasn't more powerful though, 100kgs 6'2 and pacey, he hit a few guys flat out and was tackled pretty easily. I would have thought he'd be the kind of player to make lots of little half breaks and be difficult to put down a la Manu Tuilagi.

IMO he didn't had any impact in the game, he's expected to be fast and physical but look how easy DHP tackled him, also he is not that big, he stands at 175/180 cm tall and weight in 90/95 kg.

 

[spartan32]

This must've been sarcasm?! Kerevi's 108kg and Kuridrani's 102kg. When you also consider that the 103kg Folau likes popping up in the centre channel every now and again, Oz have more fire power coming through the centre than any other team in the world. Hopefully Jones has instructed the back row to cover Ford, because if not, he's f***ed.

VunipolaMullan-1
HartleyGeorge-2
ColeHill-3
ItojeLaunchbury-4
KruisLawes-5
RobshawClifford-6
HaskellClifford-7
VunipolaClifford-8
YoungsCare-9
FordFarrell-10, Daly-12
NowellDaly-11
FarrellDaly-12
JosephDaly-13
WatsonDaly-14
BrownDaly-15

I would imagine that this is how substitutions will work in the event of injury. So really, if more than 1 player outside of 10 is injured then we're in some pretty major trouble, as Daly is the only man there to cover. If everything goes to plan and there are no injuries, I would expect the final team to be:

Mullan
George
Hill
Launchbury
Lawes
Itoje
Haskell
Clifford
Care
Farrell
Nowell
Daly
Joseph
Watson
Brown

I don't expect Eddie to trust Ford with a whole game, and when he's up against the monsters that he is at centre, I'm not sure it would be smart to expect him to have a full game there, which means moving Daly out of position to 12.

Fair enough, they've got some heavy lads, but they seem to prefer shifting the ball over knitting it up. Never felt at any time on Saturday that big lads coming up the middle was a problem, I was more worried about the speed the ball got to the wing and how much ground they made outside, and the guile they used up the middle as opposed to throwing their weight around. And in any event as long as Hask keeps playing at the same level and smashed everything in the centre of the park we should be ok.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Fair enough, they've got some heavy lads, but they seem to prefer shifting the ball over knitting it up. Never felt at any time on Saturday that big lads coming up the middle was a problem, I was more worried about the speed the ball got to the wing and how much ground they made outside, and the guile they used up the middle as opposed to throwing their weight around. And in any event as long as Hask keeps playing at the same level and smashed everything in the centre of the park we should be ok.

Didn't think big centres coming up the middle was a problem? I guess you mean apart from Kuridrani and Folau's tries?

 

[Jaguares]

Ford to start, Burrell for Clifford (takes Ford bench spot). Nowell to start, Yarde for Daly (takes Nowell bench spot). George to bench.

Still not convinced by two locks on the bench....

Why a 6/2 bench?

 

[RedruthRFC]

1. Nowell's better. Simple as that. He did more for England in the 11 minutes he was on than Yarde did in the whole game.
2. Got bullied in defence and did nothing in attack either (I don't think anyone would argue that his try was down to his attacking capabilities).
3. Only covers wing. When you've got a bench of 6/2 you want your backs to be able to cover more than one position (Nowell 13-Wing-15, Watson Wing-15, JJ 13-Wing, Brown Wing-15, Faz 10-12) This also rules out him being on the bench.

You might want to remove the Chiefs badge and location before you champion Jack's case much more! Only joking, I'm equally biased having watched him cutting his teeth in National 1 as a seventeen year old and followed his career ever since.

I agree with everything that you've said and would add another feather to Nowell's cap that he's more effective in the England back line because he comes in field and looks for work rather than sitting on his wing waiting for (currently rare) opportunities to run around / over his opposite number.

- - - Updated - - -

Why a 6/2 bench?

See above - plenty of discussion of the rationale behind the decision and its merits.

 

[Peat]

Didn't think big centres coming up the middle was a problem? I guess you mean apart from Kuridrani and Folau's tries?

They could have been the size of Shane Williams and scored those, no one got a hand on them. Two great lines, one against a disorganised defence and the other against Farrell being a prat.

Spartan's got a point. They've got a lot of power in those centres, but didn't use it all that much.