japan to join the rc

[GoTheNaki]

Not meaning to sound rude, but the competition has already lost its elite edge with Argentina's inclusion, not that I don't mind Argentina at all infact I like them and have enjoyed their contribution, but I feel Japans inclusion now will cheapen the competitions elite quality severely. Maybe in a few more years when they have an established Super Rugby side it will be appropriate.

I'm sorry, what?

Argentina in 2007 finished 3rd in the World Cup, higher than we did... And in 2011, they only lost two games... One to England in Pool Play, and the quarter-final vs the All Blacks... If ANYONE deserved to join such an "elite" competition, as you put it, it would be Argentina. Year after year, they have consistently labelled as a "dark horse" team, and they are only going to become more dangerous to world rugby, now that they are included in the Rugby Championship and Super Rugby competitions. They beat South Africa this year in the RC, they have had a draw, and run Australia and South Africa really close at other times too. Now that they have a Super Rugby team, which is FANTASTIC for their development, they have had young starting players commit to their Super Rugby team, instead of going to Europe to play. This team can only get stronger, and the South African teams should look out with this new Argentinian team being in their Super Rugby conference.

As to the original post, we should really see how their Super Rugby team pans out first. They have struggled to sign players to their team, we don't really know how the Japanese public treat rugby, but after the game yesterday I can only assume the sport will gather a bigger following... Plus, the next World Cup is in Japan. The likelihood is if the Japanese national team ends up being competitive, and not just a flash in the pan, then, after their World Cup, they should probably be looked at for joining up with the teams in the Rugby Championship. You cannot just win their first game versus a "tier 1" team, and just get all silly with inclusions into everything..

 

[chippieolamus]

I'd like to see a relegation/ promotion system introduced between 6N and the European nations cup, and also between the rugby championship and the PNC. Bottom plays top in a two legged playoff, winner plays in the 6N/RC next year. That way the best tier 2 teams get regular games against the lesser tier 1 teams and can be sure that they will see instant benefits if they improve. Also needs EOYT internationals to be played between tier 1 and 2 teams.

 

[Car]

I'd like to see a relegation/ promotion system introduced between 6N and the European nations cup, and also between the rugby championship and the PNC. Bottom plays top in a two legged playoff, winner plays in the 6N/RC next year. That way the best tier 2 teams get regular games against the lesser tier 1 teams and can be sure that they will see instant benefits if they improve. Also needs EOYT internationals to be played between tier 1 and 2 teams.

I agree, I have been saying the same thing about the 6N/RC for quite some time now and I really would like to see more teams involved in the tours. Not only because it would be huge for tier 2 teams, but also because it would make the tours more interesting.

 

[Kiwi_]

I'm sorry, what?

Argentina in 2007 finished 3rd in the World Cup, higher than we did... And in 2011, they only lost two games... One to England in Pool Play, and the quarter-final vs the All Blacks... If ANYONE deserved to join such an "elite" competition, as you put it, it would be Argentina. Year after year, they have consistently labelled as a "dark horse" team, and they are only going to become more dangerous to world rugby, now that they are included in the Rugby Championship and Super Rugby competitions. They beat South Africa this year in the RC, they have had a draw, and run Australia and South Africa really close at other times too. Now that they have a Super Rugby team, which is FANTASTIC for their development, they have had young starting players commit to their Super Rugby team, instead of going to Europe to play. This team can only get stronger, and the South African teams should look out with this new Argentinian team being in their Super Rugby conference.

As to the original post, we should really see how their Super Rugby team pans out first. They have struggled to sign players to their team, we don't really know how the Japanese public treat rugby, but after the game yesterday I can only assume the sport will gather a bigger following... Plus, the next World Cup is in Japan. The likelihood is if the Japanese national team ends up being competitive, and not just a flash in the pan, then, after their World Cup, they should probably be looked at for joining up with the teams in the Rugby Championship. You cannot just win their first game versus a "tier 1" team, and just get all silly with inclusions into everything..

Settle down mate. Let's be realistic here. The Tri-Nations was elite as it comes. Try use your brain and really realize what I meant.

 

[Scrum Bum]

No

Let the hype die down from their recent massive victory.

Japan can't consistently punch pound for pound with the teams in the RC. I think including them based on their recent record without scrutinising it at all is to do a disservice to other tier 2 teams who have been making noise about joining in.

Over other tier 2 nations they have the following advantages: big financial muscle, lax eligibility rules (3 or 5 years citizenship then they can play for the national team, club sides encourage this?), a professional set up, and a highly talented coach. I'm saying this because I am a big fan of Manu Samoa who don't have any great financial backing, "poaching" works in favour of other teams not them, a corrupt system, and poor coaching. They have shown what they are capable of when they have talent at the helm like Tom Coventry and Aussie McLean. The way in which Japanese rugby is treated compared to Island rugby in general does make me a little envious I admit.

I'm all for a promotion/relegation system. I think it will benefit the less prominent teams more, but it will also benefit fans of the game as playing the same old teams over and over did get a bit tired. I remember when the tri nations was given more games a long time ago, there was a bit of a furore regarding that.

 

[petite]

well i wasn´t thinking of including them rigth now, but i think by wathcing this wc, it seems that tier 2 nations are getting closer.
of course imo many teams should be added to the rc like samoa fiji and tonga.
some here suggested a tier 2 pacific annual and maybe the winner can cuallyfy to the next rc.
or maybe just invite one team a year.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i like the idea of promotion and relegation, give some real meaning to these games. The Trinations was elite....but it was stale, the same teams playing the same type of rugby 3 times a year....

the other idea is to make these competitions smaller rather than bigger, free up a bit more space in the timetable.

the big change would be everyone except the RWC host and champ has to qualify for the RWC. more or less the same teams will get through but over the three years between RWC your team will have to play a much wider range of teams home and away. give some real meaning to what are more or less exhibition matches normally

 

[Scrum Bum]

that's true. A promotion/relegation system would really freshen things up.

I'm not sure what the likes of Georgia/Russia/Uruguay participate in, but since Italy was included in the 6N they've come a long way.

 

[Folau Tank]

that's true. A promotion/relegation system would really freshen things up.

I'm not sure what the likes of Georgia/Russia/Uruguay participate in, but since Italy was included in the 6N they've come a long way.

Wait Hold up , If it is a promotion/relegation system then that means that the team that comes last in this case South Africa would be relegated. Also what happened to the Pacific Nations Cup.

 

[Scrum Bum]

Wait Hold up , If it is a promotion/relegation system then that means that the team that comes last in this case South Africa would be relegated. Also what happened to the Pacific Nations Cup.

Yeah. Or it could be a promotion/relegation game between bottom side of the top tier vs the top side of the bottom comp. Doubt it'd work though, that was used in NZ's domestic comp for ages and more often than not the 'premiership' side walloped the lower div champs.

It's still being played. This year it was held in the US, played between the yanks, samoa fiji tonga and japan.

I think having the USA and Japan involved in possibly playing regular fixtures against the ABs/Aus/SA will entice them. They're against playing Fiji/Samoa/Tonga cos financial and logistical reasons, but with the US and Japan being in the mix the powerbrokers may see dollar signs.

 

[Reiser99]

I would hope that most fans would want rugby nations playing top quality rugby. I think the 6N could be improved to help some upcoming European teams. Same with Rugby Championship. Yes some teams might struggle at first, but as they play more regular high quality rugby they will improve and encourgae the sport in their home countries. Rugby has been professional for 20 years and based on some of the matches it is becoming more and more competitive. Imagine what it could do over the next 20 if the top nations played the upcoming nations more.

 

[Car]

the big change would be everyone except the RWC host and champ has to qualify for the RWC. more or less the same teams will get through but over the three years between RWC your team will have to play a much wider range of teams home and away. give some real meaning to what are more or less exhibition matches normally

While that would make sense, you have to keep in mind that in soccer, fans of the big teams usually find it boring, especially with the higher number of teams qualifying nowadays. But for the smaller teams, that's different and it's in those countries where rugby needs to grow. Smaller rugby countries, that is.

 

[Scrum Bum]

Rugby can become more competitive but not sure if it can be as competitive as football/soccer is.

Simply because one is played with the hands and the other the feet.

 

[Toko_11]

for now I guess putting Georgia and Japan together in a same tournament would do

PNC+Georgia and Romania

That tourney would be worth a glance.

 

[unrated]

I understand Argentina's inclusion. They joined the only other big Southern Hemisphere competition there was. Japan should join a competition in the north. At club level it makes sense to include them because it adds commercial value to super rugby. in turn we have more money to keep our players but at international level why should they join the rugby championship. Can any team just join the comp now? why not also include namibia, samoa and tonga?


I really do hope they keep the rugby championship the same for the foreseeable future. It seems to help keep the sanzar nations a level above the NH.

 

[Redcatstorm]

It's the old Italy argument i would say Japan would be about as effective in the RC as Italy is in the 6N, that is to say almost a complete waste of time.

How long has Italy been in the 6N now 15 years or so and they are still not competitive the best they have ever done is 4th and they have never even made it out of the group stages of a WC, playing at a higher level has not at all elevated their play.

The funny thing is this WC by Japan is more successful then any that Italy has ever had.

Make a second tier pacific cup add USA, Canada, Japan, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.

These teams would get a annual competitive comp where they actually have a chance of winning games or even silverware, making them the annual wiping boys of the Southern power house nations is not going to improve their development.