[2020 RC/Tri Nations] Round 5: Argentina V New Zealand (28/11/2020)

[Cruz_del_Sur]

That is unclear as there is no official organism that can claim to represent people in this matter, but they kept being compared to anything that was better. From the basketball team that did this before the game



to Messi's gesture (he whore a jersey previously owned by Maradona and took off Barcelona's to celebrate his goal).


It's emotional if you understand the context (Maradona played for that team and it was Messi's youth clud) but I cant help wondering what would have happened had he not scored Would he had been vilified too? Is wearing a t-shirt enough?
Apparently, all those questions are out of place.

Let me make another point as the news will probably hit international outlets late tonight/tomorrow morning. We have two issues here: 1) How the pumas chose to honor Maradona. 2) Matera's, Petti's and some other player's social media posts.
1) was the trigger and don't give a rats arse about it. I saw the interviews midweek, they talked about it, and said how much they cared, etc. It's a non-issue blown out of proportion in my book. But 1) exposed 2), which is very hard to ignore and a lot of people will use it to make them pay for 1). It is really bad, no but's, no if's.
They feel offended, they can't do anything about 1), so they will use 2) to punish them.

What makes this very awkward, is that the very same people who spearhead what is about to come Matera's and Petti's way looked away when videos of Maradona hitting his girlfriend came public, or when pics of him with (allegedly) underage prostitutes in Cuba surfaced.
I don't want to fall into "whataboutisms" here. What Matera and Petti posted is terrible, from beginning to end. No buts, no ifs, no excuses. No context could ever explain nor minimize the stupidity of their actions. Racism, xenophobia, classism, the lot. I just wanted to highlight the hypocrisy of some of the people waging war against them. I like to call a spade a spade, regardless of whether the one holding it plays rugby, footie, comes from rich or poor backgrounds. Some people do not.

This could be the kind of thing that chases player around for his entire career.

 

[Yulia]

Were the Pumas supposed to present a Maradona jersey to the All Blacks or something?
What would have been the appropriate response?

I think, Felipe meant :

and bring us Maradona's black shirt. Our players don't even deign to pick it up and thank the gesture.

What Matera and Petti posted is terrible, from beginning to end.

What did they post?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What did they post?

I tried googling it but the only article I found didn't translate the posts...just said they were bad

 

[mania]

Were the Pumas supposed to present a Maradona jersey to the All Blacks or something?
What would have been the appropriate response?

Black armbands and/or a minutes silence, as above, is the right response

what they should've done was to have all the pumas wear 10 with maradona's name on the back.

 

[Felipe]

When i watch the national rugby team my main concern is not how they honour a person for his achievements in another sport. Actually quite the opposite.

Your vision is certainly very Cartesian and you seem to show a very British phlegm but it is light years away from the emotions of the common people.
And that is precisely what we are criticized for. Our social insensitivity, which ends up driving other Argentinians away from rugby.

I'll stop talking to you if you want me to.
I find that despite all our exchange little enlighten our friends of the forum on the internal differences within the world of rugby.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

….anyway

who can believe jordie was the person keeping Jordan from starting?!?!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Pablo Matera deletes his social media after controversial old tweets are revealed | Rugby Onslaught

Argentina captain Pablo Matera appears to have been forced to delete his social media accounts after old tweets appear to have surfaced.

rugbyonslaught.com

Interesting to see what they do about this. He has apologised and admitted he was wrong. I don't know what I'd do because discrimination is like the thing I hate the most, but people changing for the better is like the thing I love the most. For me, he needs to do more to compensate. It will be rediculously controversial should he play this weekend that's for sure.

well jordie was picked ahead of Caleb too so you'd have to say Caleb was keeping Jordan out.
At least in this game scott paid dividends on the multi barret deal.
Akira also played well.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Pablo Matera deletes his social media after controversial old tweets are revealed | Rugby Onslaught

Argentina captain Pablo Matera appears to have been forced to delete his social media accounts after old tweets appear to have surfaced.

rugbyonslaught.com

Interesting to see what they do about this. He has apologised and admitted he was wrong. I don't know what I'd do because discrimination is like the thing I hate the most, but people changing for the better is like the thing I love the most. For me, he needs to do more to compensate. It will be rediculously controversial should he play this weekend that's for sure.

well jordie was picked ahead of Caleb too so you'd have to say Caleb was keeping Jordan out.
At least in this game scott paid dividends on the multi barret deal.
Akira also played well.

don't quite follow, Jordan prefers to play right wing and Clarke plays left wing...and jordie was picked on the right wing

 

[mania]

Pablo Matera deletes his social media after controversial old tweets are revealed | Rugby Onslaught

Argentina captain Pablo Matera appears to have been forced to delete his social media accounts after old tweets appear to have surfaced.

rugbyonslaught.com

Interesting to see what they do about this. He has apologised and admitted he was wrong. I don't know what I'd do because discrimination is like the thing I hate the most, but people changing for the better is like the thing I love the most. For me, he needs to do more to compensate. It will be rediculously controversial should he play this weekend that's for sure.

i wanna know what they said

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I found his "I play for my country" thing a bit silly at the time...but its all unravelling now

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i wanna know what they said

Yeah it was a pretty funny article, putting his tweets through google translate

don't quite follow, Jordan prefers to play right wing and Clarke plays left wing...and jordie was picked on the right wing

Just figured wingers are relatively interchangeable, mainly making the point that if they were going to bring Jordan in they would take Clarke out not Jordie. The comment was meant to add a layer of wtf to the picking of Jordie on the wing.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yeah it was a pretty funny article, putting his tweets through google translate

Just figured wingers are relatively interchangeable, mainly making the point that if they were going to bring Jordan in they would take Clarke out not Jordie. The comment was meant to add a layer of wtf to the picking of Jordie on the wing.

yeah, fair enough, thinki as just focusing on jordie because he wasn't even playing that well and clarke had been pretty solid for a new boy

I wasn't game to try and translate

 

[Umaga's Witness]

It seems like everybody on reddit knows what the tweets said but after looking for a long while I can't find English versions. I'm sure they're there, but haven't found them

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Long story short: they made fun of dark skinned people (though the context with which is used in Arg, thou racist is not quite the same as abroad), they made fun of bolivians, paraguayans and peruvians (xenophobia), tons of things said about fat people, quite a few jokes about maids, and jews.

Matera has been stripped of his captaincy and Matera, Petti and Socino have been suspended till their disciplinary situation is analysed.

 

[Felipe]

View attachment 8927

I found his "I play for my country" thing a bit silly at the time...but its all unravelling now

As contradictory as it may sound Matera is telling the truth when he says "I play for my country". The problem is what he means by MY country. Unfortunately, the social group that plays rugby in Argentina has a very narrow conception of the country. The Country is limited to this same social group. Outside there is no country where what we find is an anomaly to correct (not to exterminate, I want to make it clear).

I believe that the UAR should have handled the crisis differently and not made Matera the scapegoat for a moral crisis affecting the social group that plays rugby in Argentina. Pablo Matera should have apologized and excluded himself for a few games.

I'm sure he's someone who's shifted his mind over the past few years. And as he himself asserts, he is not proud of having supported the ideas that are now known to all.
I want to point out that even if his words are aberrant and condemnable, they are much less racist than classist. It may be difficult to understand outside of Latin America, but with us there is a phobia of the poor or of the plebs. When Matera attacks Bolivians or blacks it is much less a racial issue than a social issue. With us the poor are people of color. But as soon as a person of color get money and gives up their plebeian culture they have their place in the social group of the rugby world. It's still aberrant, but it's not racism. Just the phobia of the poor. Despite everything, I remain hopeful that Maradona's death will allow this social group to revisit its values and the Pumas have an important role to play in reconciling the country.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

As contradictory as it may sound Matera is telling the truth when he says "I play for my country". The problem is what he means by MY country. Unfortunately, the social group that plays rugby in Argentina has a very narrow conception of the country. The Country is limited to this same social group. Outside there is no country where what we find is an anomaly to correct (not to exterminate, I want to make it clear).

I believe that the UAR should have handled the crisis differently and not made Matera the scapegoat for a moral crisis affecting the social group that plays rugby in Argentina. Pablo Matera should have apologized and excluded himself for a few games.

I'm sure he's someone who's shifted his mind over the past few years. And as he himself asserts, he is not proud of having supported the ideas that are now known to all.
I want to point out that even if his words are aberrant and condemnable, they are much less racist than classist. It may be difficult to understand outside of Latin America, but with us there is a phobia of the poor or of the plebs. When Matera attacks Bolivians or blacks it is much less a racial issue than a social issue. With us the poor are people of color. But as soon as a person of color get money and gives up their plebeian culture they have their place in the social group of the rugby world. It's still aberrant, but it's not racism. Just the phobia of the poor. Despite everything, I remain hopeful that Maradona's death will allow this social group to revisit its values and the Pumas have an important role to play in reconciling the country.

I only mention it was a bit cringe because he'd just flown in and escalated a scuffle that one of his own players had started by shoving frizell on the ground...hardly honourable or great leadership

 

[Felipe]

I only mention it was a bit cringe because he'd just flown in and escalated a scuffle that one of his own players had started by shoving frizell on the ground...hardly honourable or great leadership

it is true that from one week to another he goes from being a heroic and honorable leader to something very different.

 

[Rinkadink]

I've just heard the news and checked out a translation of the Tweets from two of the accused via Reddit... they're awful if true/translated properly and it's really disappointing for the whole sport to say the least.

 

[mania]

must say that Akira is getting my vote. when Akira was done for a head high he would usually walk away complaining and incredulous about the penalty and alot of the time it would distract him. but this time; instead of complaining about the ref and the decision he lifted his arm a couple of times to apologise to his team mates and then got back to work.
and what what a work load he contributed. if he keeps this up then that 6 jersey will be his.

 

[mania]

I've just heard the news and checked out a translation of the Tweets from two of the accused via Reddit... they're awful if true/translated properly and it's really disappointing for the whole sport to say the least.

post it please. or provide a link