Izzy Folau

[Umaga's Witness]

Just remember that many deeply religious men molest young boys all over the world for years and years, and they don't claim that they're gay...

They probably aren't particularly gay. Boys are probably just easier targets

 

[TRF_heineken]

They probably aren't particularly gay. Boys are probably just easier targets

Perhaps. But there are plenty of movies and tv shows nowadays where a man does some sort of homosexual act and then still preach against homosexuality, or goes off about gays or some other form of disdain against homosexuality. But in the end it that man, who has to confront his own demons and accept what he really is.

I merely used the example of the catholic priests as just one other form of homosexual acts done by men, and then preach against it. There so many others...

 

[WaterboySA]

Gents, maybe I'll take some flack for this, but I think this conversation has gone off track......from Izzy going bonkers, to bashing Christians in general. Let's get something clear. The pope is NOT the leader of all Christians. Priests that molest boys is NOT true Christians, they are pretenders. They are NOT deeply religious(sorry Hein), they are false, warned against in the Bible(also religious leaders that preach something close to Christianity, with some things added, like the people at the head of Izzy's "church"(that I read from this discussion). I honestly hope we can get the conversation back on track.

 

[Scotty]

I'm more worried about his mental health, claiming to have talked to God, seemingly oblivious to the consequences of his actions, apparently obsession with the LGBTQI+ community

What is the QI+ part? Genuinly dont know.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What is the QI+ part? Genuinly dont know.

Q is queer. I'm not sure about I though.

 

[bushytop]

Q is queer. I'm not sure about I though.

Apparently the 'Q' started as an an androgynous symbol (it's a letter that resembles the female or male symbols but without the cross or arrow respectively) but because people on the internet didn't know this they just assumed it meant queer and 'now' it means queer... go figure.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

"I" stands for "intersex" and + obviously anything yet to be identified or people still unsure of themselves, that's my understanding

 

[TRF_heineken]

Gents, maybe I'll take some flack for this, but I think this conversation has gone off track......from Izzy going bonkers, to bashing Christians in general. Let's get something clear. The pope is NOT the leader of all Christians. Priests that molest boys is NOT true Christians, they are pretenders. They are NOT deeply religious(sorry Hein), they are false, warned against in the Bible(also religious leaders that preach something close to Christianity, with some things added, like the people at the head of Izzy's "church"(that I read from this discussion). I honestly hope we can get the conversation back on track.

All good Lourens. I agree with your remarks, and perhaps I wasn't clear on what I was saying. But yeah, its usually someone that uses/abuses faith/religion to preach against something like homosexuality, but then also take part in some form of this "sinful" act.

 

[Scotty]

I believe you are who you are and you do not choose to be gay or straight, even trans isnt a choice its how you feel comfortable in your own skin.

Thats the difference with izzy, he does not want people to be happy and comfortable and unless they conform to his beliefs and also his level of beliefs, you are going to hell...you are evil.

Certain things that i personally dont think is right, yet i will not condemn people for it.

 

[McTallshort]

I really don't understand this thing about saying that homophobic people are secretly closeted. I'm sure some are, but it certainly isn't the rule. He's deeply religious and has been taught from a young age that homosexuality is a sin; his homophobia is nothing to do with his own sexuality.

On a slightly separate note, and this isn't directed at you Tallshort as you didn't say it in an insulting way, but people taking the **** out of Folau saying that he must be closeted is so painfully backwards as all it actually does is perpetuate the idea that 'gay' is an insult.

There is a actually a link with deep religious belief, repressed sexuality and Homophobia. People who are brought up in strict religious households tend to deal with homosexual feelings by becoming more religious and have a harder attitude towards that particular sin. They see giving into to their natural sexuality as the work of the devil and become very vocal against those they believe have given in to it.

There has been more than one Evangelist preacher in America that has been caught in a compromising position with a young man in a motel room or a catholic priest who been exposed for abusing boys. Some years ago I was listening to a Radio 2 program about a young muslim man that went to fight for ISIS. He described the whole ordeal about how his parents brought him up to believe not only that Western society was sinful but also hated him and his beliefs. He went on to join a terrorist group etc and at the end of the interview he was asked why his beliefs had been so strong and he replied that he was gay, he had always know he was gay but he was (at the time) determined to drive the sin from his body.

Also don't forget in nations with the very low tolerance to Homosexuality there is normally lots of do as I say not as I do from the people who preach such low tolerance. Saudi Arabia is the perfect example of this: Its punishable by death to be gay but many of the elite not only have wives but male friends who they share their beds with. This is excepted by not only the mans wife but the mans parents too.

Homophobia is rank with hypocrisy and double standards, the people who are the most vocal Homophobes tend to be the most hypocritical of all.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Homosexuals who become priests and then abuse young boys are not your average abusive priest. For the most part priests aren't abusing boys because they are gay, they are abusing boys because they are more readily available to abuse compared to girls. This is obvious to me but I have done some research to confirm, in case I need the evidence. Typically boys were only allowed to be altar boys, for example, and a large proportion of abusees have been altar boys.

But actually girls have been abused Too, especially more recently as altar girls has become a thing. A survey of 7000 adult Catholics in the US and Canada found 350 had been sexually abused as a child by a priest. That's 5%, 1.3 of which were girls.

The reason we only hear about boys is because apparently to society homosexuality is a bigger sin than pedophilia. The Vatican's approach to the issue of abusive priests has been to remove homosexual priests.

My point here is let's stop implicitly or explicitly perpetuating the idea that homosexuality is worse than pedophilia. To do that we have to stop bringing attention to the homosexual component of pedophilic acts. No matter what the context.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Q is queer. I'm not sure about I though.

It's ok not to be sure. You know there are lots of options if you feel the nèed for a label. You could be intersex, for example, "I" could be Too, if I wanted. Actually probably not, intersex is more about the body you were born into.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I like to think the rest of us boring old hetro's fall into the "+"....makes it all the more inclusive

 

[ncurd]

+ is simply everything not listed like Asexuals otherwise the acronym will be stupidly long.

 

[McTallshort]

Homosexuals who become priests and then abuse young boys are not your average abusive priest. For the most part priests aren't abusing boys because they are gay, they are abusing boys because they are more readily available to abuse compared to girls. This is obvious to me but I have done some research to confirm, in case I need the evidence. Typically boys were only allowed to be altar boys, for example, and a large proportion of abusees have been altar boys.

But actually girls have been abused Too, especially more recently as altar girls has become a thing. A survey of 7000 adult Catholics in the US and Canada found 350 had been sexually abused as a child by a priest. That's 5%, 1.3 of which were girls.

The reason we only hear about boys is because apparently to society homosexuality is a bigger sin than pedophilia. The Vatican's approach to the issue of abusive priests has been to remove homosexual priests.

My point here is let's stop implicitly or explicitly perpetuating the idea that homosexuality is worse than pedophilia. To do that we have to stop bringing attention to the homosexual component of pedophilic acts. No matter what the context.

Ok take the priests out, all the other examples are valid

 

[Scotty]

No this is off topic of izzy and i appologise but what do you lot think of raising kids gender neutral?

Back to the topic when is this all going ahead with Izzy vs RA if it does?

 

[ncurd]

No this is off topic of izzy and i appologise but what do you lot think of raising kids gender neutral?

Complex topic which as a cisgendered person I do not understand fully. The basic argument is gender is a societal construct completely separate from your sex and who you are as a person has no basis on your genitalia. Therefore you are not a 'male' if you have a X chromosome but exhibit feminine personality.

My point of difference is I believe gender and sex are the same thing and personality has got bugger all to do with it.

This leads me to believe that technically I would raise my kids gender neutral by their definition 'kids doesn't get told to behave like a girl or a boy' but I would still call them a boy or a girl therefore not meeting everything they want.

Its also an argument I'm not particularly interested in having with the transgendered community, we essentially agree on fundamental point who you are has got sod all to do with your wibbly bits. It how we define it that's different.

 

[TRF_heineken]

No this is off topic of izzy and i appologise but what do you lot think of raising kids gender neutral?

Back to the topic when is this all going ahead with Izzy vs RA if it does?

I have twins. A boy and a girl. They had their second birthday just this past Saturday. They both got presents in the form of dolls, cars, buidling blocks and farm animals. They choose with what they want to play with. My daughter is the typical introvert girl, and mostly plays with a specific doll. My son, he just wants to play, no matter what is in front of him.

Me and my wife have decided not to raise them gender neutral, mostly because my wife is a teacher at early childhood development stage and she feels that this nonsense of gender neutrality is making the kids dumber at such an early stage as they don't learn certain issues which are vital for the beginning of development and understanding.

 

[bushytop]

No this is off topic of izzy and i appologise but what do you lot think of raising kids gender neutral?

Back to the topic when is this all going ahead with Izzy vs RA if it does?

I don't have kids (I know that I don't have the patience) but if I did, I guess you just gotta let them be who they want to be while providing some moral guidance.

 

[bushytop]

I don't have kids (I know that I don't have the patience) but if I did, I guess you just gotta let them be who they want to be while providing some moral guidance.

Saying that I do have a step-daughter who is nearly 23, my experience from the small part I've had in raising her... god help you if you disagree with her choices.