Is it just me or...

[Sir Speedy]

Was this a terrible 6N's?

The only games that were worth the 100 minutes spent were: IRE v FRA; FRA v WAL; WAL v IRE.

Cases could be made for SCO v WAL, WAL v ENG and ENG v FRA, but the others were completely dire.

Let's summarize what went wrong:

Lack of competitiveness. Only Ireland look like a side who can seriously threaten the SH teams at the moment.

Wales have receded from their form of '08, even though personally I think this slump will benefit us in the long term. Replacements for the likes of Ikkul need to be found; he's not a shadow of what he was in the Summer.

France - They've been terrible under Lievremont. Simple as that. When they were under Laporte, they were an enigma, though even with that ***le they seemed to annihilate all NH opposition most of the time. Now, they struggle against Ireland, England, Wales and even Scotland. Sure you can blame it on rotation, but when are they ever going to get some consistent with selection? And when the hell will they rid themselves of this fear of playing England? They improved against Italy, but that doesn't count - it's only Italy.

Onto Italy. Simply put, this year depicts that they've fallen years behind. Parisse a spark in a pool of water.

England - For the first three games, England were awful. Their game plan consisted of killing the game, rather than going for the win. The amount of sin bins they picked up is ridiculous... Thankfully their game picked up against France and Scotland, so they can look to plan for better things in the future.

Scotland probably won't ever be competitive under Hadden. Even their star player Blair has lost his form, and Hadden simply refuses to make the necessary changes. In all the games besides Italy, they never really looked like they would win. Their backline is terrible, though the Evans Bros will be class in the future. Hadden needs to go.

Now onto the ELV's:

More than 90% of the games this year had horrible bouts of kicking contests due to players trying to force the opposition to make an error. I'm all for up and unders and touch-finders if they've been thought through properly, though kicking for this purpose makes the game tedious as a spectacle and really monotonous. At least try to run it back. Even once will do! Please, for the love of God and all that is holy...

The referees don't seem to have a clue what's going on in the scrum either. Too many re-set scrums due to them being pulled down or due to poor binding have slowed the pace of the games down. This needs to be addressed immediately; there should be some standard for the referees to abide to so that different interpretations of situations aren't made.

What say you TRF? Yay or nay regarding the tournament? - And what's to be done!?

 

[gingergenius]

I could make a case for there not having been a 'good' 6N since 2004.

2009 we go into it with Wales the only quality side; Ireland and France ok. We come out of it with England and Wales looking ok, and Ireland looking quality.

2008 no one looks great going into it; Wales emerge quality.

2006 & 7 - we see bits in patches from France and Ireland and occasionally England but nothing much really.

2005 - Wales look good but no one else steps up to the plate.

2004 - England go in as world champions, Ireland are a quality side, so are France.

2003 - England and France are world class, Ireland are quality

2002 - "

I don't need to go further back, but the 6N really needs 3 quality sides... yes there were 4 closely matched teams in this year's 6N, but they all pale next to the big SH powers. At the moment there is no one in the NH really established against each other to form close rivalries like England had with Ireland and France in the Woordward era.

I also agree that the majority of the ELVs suck dick. We've tried them, we don't like them, let's pass 95% of them back into the 22 and kick them to touch.

 

[shazbooger]

As a tournament I'm not sure, from a Welsh point of view I can see why you'd say it, but from an Irish point of view it was the best ever. Nahhh, the quality of the teams were so up and down that you never really new what was going to happen week in week out. Thats pretty much the same every year though.

The fact that the drama came down to the the last kick, in the last minute of the last game says a lot for the "product". You have to add Ireland vs France, and France vs Wales and Wales vs Ireland to the list of games. For shear excitement, ferocity, and drama they cant be matched. On the other side there were some pish poor matches. Again, no different to last year really.

I believe that next years competition looks mouth watering. Galthie should be running France by then, England are coming along quite nicely, Scotland should have a new coach as well so you'd imagine Wales and Ireland really need to pull up their socks to even remain competitive. A tournament with any of four teams going for it, and Scotland causing more than a few surprises.

 

[An Tarbh]

well to have a tournament where we had 3 outstanding matches doesn't suggest to me that it was a bad tournament, refresh my memory what were the outstanding matches in last year's tournament.

I think the finish tops most tournaments, 2007 was a hugely exciting final day but the drama of the grand slam added to this year's finish, I don't think there's much to complain about from a neutral point of view.

Ireland England may not have been a swash buckling game of rugby but it was one hell of a physical contest, same for Italy Wales although not quite as physical as the Ireland England game of course.

Wales England was hardly a poor match either, plenty to be happy with from this year's tournament.

 

[Meh]

Bad Six Nations? It was infinitely better than last year. People say this every year now. In terms of excitement this 6N kicked ass, right down to the last kick from Stephen Jones my eyes were glued to the screen.

The only games that bored me were ones involving Italy. No offence to them but it's fact.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

This 6 nations was OK.

Scotland need a new coaching set-up, failing that, we need Hadden to not be the head coach by this time next year, I was glad that Dan Parks didn't get a chance to play at all, that made me happy. I hate Dan Parks. I hope Dan Parks retires soon.

England did a lot of mischeifs and paid for it in yellow cards, played well when they weren't trying to cheat their way to a win.

Wales played well at time, iffy form but you can't expect a team to do the same things 2 years in a row. They came in with a lot of pressure on them and faltered under it. They'll be back and stronger next year.

Ireland played well, were held up by a lot of individual efforts at times but all in all had enough key players playing well to win every game.

Italy were f***ing terrible, notable exception Sergio.

France are developing a decent back catalogue of players, I wouldn't be surprised if Livremont is playing a "working towards the world cup" game, developing and re-inventing some players over the coming years. I don't think he set out to win the 6N, but to do as much for French rugby as he can, I can see France being a serious threat in the next world cup, once the team comes of age.

 

[gingergenius]

interesting

just goes to show what might have been for England.

I'm definitely in agreement with Logorrhea - next year's 6N looks mouthwatering. At least now it does.

Of course England, Wales and Ireland could all have disappointing Autumns again and be back to square 1.

England's fixture list, however, looks promising. We have Argentina and Fiji in the Autumn, which should be wins, and then the All Blacks who will beat us, but if we make it tough and close then that's a major improvement. We have Wales and Ireland at home in the 6N 2010, and we should expect to beat anyone barring SA and NZ at home.

Last year, we had a decent 6N and a tour of NZ with a few positives. We should have beaten Australia in the Autumn; the fact we lost meant that when we came up against a rampant SA side we melted away rather than fought. Obviously then the NZ game was over before it begun. That kind of fixture list against ruthless and clinical sides was exciting but did us no good in the confidence stakes. As soon as the confidence started coming back, we've looked like a half-decent side again.

 

[Cymro]

Do you know what that article does talk some decent sense I would never have said Flutey, Shaw or Worsley to be in the Lions Squad before the 6 Nations but they have stood up and do be fair have played well!

 

[Sir Speedy]

Er... Simon Shaw? :huh:

 

[Cymro]

Yes the bloke was pretty good the games I saw of him! He commanded the lineout well and grafted well!

He's also had experience with the Lions in SA!

 

[Sir Speedy]

I guess I was distracted by the fact he's a walking penalty count.

He'd probably go as fourth choice since I'm struggling to think past the Irish pair and AWJ.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Mar 23 2009, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I guess I was distracted by the fact he's a walking penalty count.

He'd probably go as fourth choice since I'm struggling to think past the Irish pair and AWJ.[/b]

I do honestly think he has a shout at making the Lions Squad ahead of Goughie who struggled against the Irish! He does concede a few penalties but so does O'Callaghan!

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 23 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We should have beaten Australia in the Autumn[/b]

Are you being serious? :lol:

 

[Cymro]

He's as serious as Chuck Norris is !

 

[QLD]

I thought it was an awesome series. Better than the past two years. ELVS had some good bits, but had some bad.

Seeing Ireland not only win it but seeing them win the grand slam for the first time in 61 years is something special, better than see the usual two win it every year. The big downside was that Italy were awful.

 

[Count of Devonshire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Mar 23 2009, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Lack of competitiveness. Only Ireland look like a side who can seriously threaten the SH teams at the moment.[/b]

This sentence is so wrong in so many ways.

Competitiveness is the only thing which made this 6N remotely interesting, as the quality was so mediocre but at the same time so even. The number of games finishing within a score made it exciting and unpredictable.

Gram Slam or not, Ireland won't threaten the SH with this side, in fact they never have, and probably never will. As someone who believes the only real way to judge the quality of the tournament is on how the winner fares up against the Big 3, this tournament has been utterly disappointing. Wales looked the only side to even challenge them in the Autumn, yet if anything they've gone backwards since. There are promising signs for the future. The English showed glimpses of potentially creating something to challenge again. The French are still capable of anything on their day (but need to find the right formula/coach to improve their consistency). I'd even back Wales to regain some zip in the near future. In fact, out of the 4, only the Irish don't really do much for me in terms of scalping the SH over the next 3 years.

This was a 6N high on competitiveness and physicality, and pretty low on everything else. Congratulations to the Irish on their long overdue GS, they deserved it for being the best of a poor bunch. If they had their team from 2003 playing in this tournament, they'd have crushed all comers. I'm looking forward to next year, because I know that if we build on this year properly then we'll win the thing, and if we don't then we'll still be in with a excellent chance.

 

[durbutter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 24 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Gram Slam or not, Ireland won't threaten the SH with this side, in fact they never have, and probably never will.[/b]

Well if you happened to watch some of the Ireland matches against these teams, we've always been there or thereabouts, just missing that little bit of guile and composure to close the games out. I am NOT saying that ireland are at their level, but we have been very competitive for thmost part when playing them.

Also why won't ireland ever threaten a SH team?

 

[Count of Devonshire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Mar 24 2009, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 24 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gram Slam or not, Ireland won't threaten the SH with this side, in fact they never have, and probably never will.[/b]

Well if you happened to watch some of the Ireland matches against these teams, we've always been there or thereabouts, just missing that little bit of guile and composure to close the games out. I am NOT saying that ireland are at their level, but we have been very competitive for the most part when playing them.

Also why won't Ireland ever threaten a SH team?
[/b][/quote]
You've never been 'there', but I'll give you 'thereabouts'.

Why won't they threaten? Unless they get a freak generation coming through which defies their infrastructure and player base, they just won't.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Mar 24 2009, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also why won't ireland ever threaten a SH team?[/b]

Because your Irish stupo! Now get back to your station and eat a potato or something!

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fushitsusha @ Mar 23 2009, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 23 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We should have beaten Australia in the Autumn[/b]

Are you being serious? :lol:
[/b][/quote]

yes, you fool. We didn't take our chances, and as usual no one bothered to referee the scrum properly, which meant that the myth that the Aussie scrum won the day was created. If you remember we moved into the lead and looked totally dominant, only to throw it all away.

Whoever said Ireland won't beat SH teams - they're capable of beating Australia. This Ireland team is by no means world class but they've demonstrated they're experts at winning 50/50 matches without having to play nice rugby. All it takes is bullying Australia's pack, which Ireland certainly can do, then it's game on.