Irish Summer Tests

[Peat]

Michael Bent's as Irish as singing with a pig stuck under your arm, so he is. Sure, doesn't your man have a sister in Dublin anyway, so he does.

...

Well, he's IQ at least.

If you want to cast aspersions at 'project' props, Nathan White will qualify for Ireland on residency by the time he's finished his contract at Connacht.

 

[dullonien]

He did, and was quite unpopular if memory serves.

Jared Payne is the only other player who I think is being looked at as a project player at the moment, and he's years away. Don't be getting all high and mighty, it's not like everyone who plays for Wales is 100% Welsh.

Yup us Welsh can't talk at the minute. We've got three players waiting for residency before they'll probably be selected for Wales. Andries Pretorius, Michael Paterson and Hanno Dirksen.

 

[psychic duck]

Yup us Welsh can't talk at the minute. We've got three players waiting for residency before they'll probably be selected for Wales. Andries Pretorius, Michael Paterson and Hanno Dirksen.

Georgia can, the Lelos were one of three sides at the World Cup who had not a single player born outside the country

by the way, those three players you mentioned would probably all get caps, especially Dirksen, but Wales could live without them, especially the back row players as Wales has probably it's best back row ever, Ryan Jones, and Tipuric are both quality and on great form yet second choice

 

[Feicarsinn]

Georgia can, the Lelos were one of three sides at the World Cup who had not a single player born outside the country

Two things:

1) Who cares?
2) Who the hell would want to play for Georgia if given the option of playing for anyone else?

 

[big ginger 8]

Georgia can, the Lelos were one of three sides at the World Cup who had not a single player born outside the country

by the way, those three players you mentioned would probably all get caps, especially Dirksen, but Wales could live without them, especially the back row players as Wales has probably it's best back row ever, Ryan Jones, and Tipuric are both quality and on great form yet second choice

And which of the project players do we currently need?

 

[molloyjh]

That's ****ing fantastic.


Soo anyway, I was having a bit of a ponder of what kind of squad Kidney's successor will have when he comes into office (who doesn't love a bit of idle speculation, eh?). I'd imagine that we'll be living in a world without ROG, DOC, Dorce and Drico, while POC will still probably be banging around with any luck. So I did some depth charts:

Loosehead Prop
Cian Healy
Tom Court
Paddy McAllister
Jack McGrath

We're pretty well set here. The first two guys are both very good operators and Cian Healy never seems to be injured in any case. I have no major complaints

Hooker:
Rory Best
Richardt Strauss
Sean Cronin
Mike Sherry

Solid position. 4 good operators, all of whom I wouldn't have much hesitation throwing into international action (perhaps Sherry, but no doubt another year will have brought him on a bit)

Tighthead Prop
Mike Ross
Declan Fitzpatrick
Jamie Hagan
Ronan Loughney
Tony Buckley

Obviously this is an area of major concern. I don't think any of the guys mentioned are fit to take over from Ross as an international quality 3. Fortunately there is some decent talent emerging that may be fast tracked into the squad by the next world cup

Second Row
Paul O'Connell
Donnacha Ryan
Dan Tuohy
Devin Toner

Happy here. Not as good as the Mal, POC & DOC days, but plenty of talent. Hopefully Ryan Caldwell's impressive form with Bath will get a look in too

Tighthead Flanker
Stephen Ferris
Sean O'Brien
Rhys Ruddock
Peter O'Mahony

Jizzworthy.

Loosehead flanker
Sean O'Brien
Peter O'Mahony
Chris Henry
Dominic Ryan

Once again, not bad at all.

Number 8
Jamie Heaslip
Sean O'Brien
Paddy Butler
Roger Wilson

The back row by will be in good shape next year, and 8 is no exception. It's all about getting the balance right.

Scrum Half
Eoin Reddan
Conor Murray
Paul Marshall
Isaac Boss

A waiting game if I ever saw one. Soon the chosen one will sweep all of these mortals aside, but they'll do for now

Out half
Johnny Sexton
Ian Madigan
Ian Keatley
Paddy Jackson
Sexton is obviously leagues out in front, but you couldn't ask for a better game changer to be able to bring on than Madigan. I imagine that we'll see a serious improvement in Keatley once he's given the Munster 10 shirt for a whole season

Inside Centre
Fergus McFadden
Luke Fitzgerald
Paddy Wallace
Gordon D'arcy

A position in which we're going to have to put up with a few old lads for a while I feel. JJ Hanrahan may get more game time than I'm anticipating, but I reckon it'll be 2 years before he's ready to be included.

Outside Centre
Darren Cave
Eoin O'Malley
Eoin Griffin
Keith Earls

Happy enough here, lot's of proper 13's. Good stuff.

Wings
Tommy Bowe
Luke Fitzgerald
Keith Earls
Andrew Trimble
Craig Gilroy
Simon Zebo
Dave Kearney
Tiernan O'Halloran

Not a problem area in any way, shape or form.

Fullback
Rob Kearney
Felix Jones
Dave Kearney
Keith Earls

Rob obviously can't be replaced, but Jones could make do in a pinch. I'm not unhappy here.


So, lots for the incoming coach to work with. Once this Kidney ******* fecks off we can get back down to work I guess.

What about Varley at hooker too. I'd have him there sooner than Sherry.

And I'd be very concerned with Jones' latest injury. Isn't it his 3rd serious injury in as many years? We need to be looking at other options for FB.

also didn't Kidney once coach Leinster?

I believe Drico said he learned absolutely nothing from Kidney at Leinster and was actually quite tempted to **** off to France at that stage of Leinsters development. Next May can't come quick enough if you ask me!


My biggest issues with the selections are:

1. Ferris: The guy can hardly walk. He needs the summer off, not 3 Tests against the World Champions.
2. Zebo: D Kearney was ahead of him in February and I honestly can't see what has changed in either since that would cause him to fall below Zebo. Himself and Gilroy are better all round players than Zebo is.
3. The number of players brought: 29 seems low to me even if it's just 3 Tests. Add several more and we can take an extra out-half (Madigan/Keatley) and bring in players like McCarthy/Toner too.

I know a win against NZ down there will do our seeding the world of good, but even with a new coach and new look NZ team I'm not sure I can see us beating them in any of the games. And if we lose all 3 games with the same players, playing the same game, what exactly will we have learned from it!? Of course Deccie has said he won't be experimenting in NZ. He also won't be experimenting in the AIs due to seeding. And the 6 Nations is our bread and butter so he won't experiment there. So come the end of his contract we'll have gone through the 09/10, 10/11, 11/12 and 12/13 seasons having learned nothing and developed very few players. 4 years all but down the drain. Thank God I have Leinster to fall back on!!!

 

[big ginger 8]

now I think about none of them really

Strauss would probably get in the side, but it wouldn't be that much of a loss if he didn't play as Best and Cronin are both good, the latter being a very good impact of the bench

Boss wouldn't be much of a loss, others such as Wilkinson, Bent, Denton, Auva'a, A D'Arcy, McCarthy and Diack don't get in the team

without Court though, the second choice loosehead would be Loughney who isn't good enough for international rugby, so he would be the biggest loss, but as Feicarsinn says Healy never gets injured (one thing he does better than Gethin), but Court would be better than the other options to have on the bench

when Payne qualifies he wouldn't be needed in the back three, but played 13 often with the Blues and would be more likely to get chance there

Court was before the project player scheme I'm pretty sure. Payne could get a place on the bench maybe because of his versatility but at the moment Cave is the heir apparent at 13 and we've got a few good young enough ones progressing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is Auva'a a project player? I thought he went to school here.

He's a waste of a project spot if he is one, we have no need for a backrow.

 

[big ginger 8]

No he's not a project player. Came over to play for Old Belvo and work I thought (may have done a year or two of school) and was only with Leinster because of the WC. Has been pretty good this year though so I think he got an extension. I'm pretty sure he's IQ already though.

 

[Peat]

Boss

All

Bent, Denton,

Of these guys

A D'Arcy, McCarthy

Are of Irish

without Court though

Descent.

And not project players. Please learn the difference.

Or, alternately, learn to be complete and include Dan Tuohy, Rhys Ruddock, Stewart Maguire, Adrian Flavin, Sean Dougall, and so on and on and on...

 

[Cave Dweller]

 

[big ginger 8]

All tests will kick off at 19:35 N.Z. time and shall be on Sky Sports. That's 8:35 Irish time.

 

[lynam1104]

I love it when games are played in NZ/Aus always great late afternoon rugby opposed to having to stay up till 2am.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What are the dates of the tests I have a feeling I'll miss at least two of them due to being in Ghana.

 

[lynam1104]

9th, 16th and 23rd of June.

 

[Peat]

Ok, I'm bored as hell so I cameback to this...

That's ****ing fantastic.


Soo anyway, I was having a bit of a ponder of what kind of squad Kidney's successor will have when he comes into office (who doesn't love a bit of idle speculation, eh?). I'd imagine that we'll be living in a world without ROG, DOC, Dorce and Drico, while POC will still probably be banging around with any luck. So I did some depth charts:

I don't think BOD's going to retire anytime soon. The other three should be retired, like it or not.

Tighthead Prop
Mike Ross
Declan Fitzpatrick
Jamie Hagan
Ronan Loughney
Tony Buckley

Obviously this is an area of major concern. I don't think any of the guys mentioned are fit to take over from Ross as an international quality 3. Fortunately there is some decent talent emerging that may be fast tracked into the squad by the next world cup

I'm inclined to agree with you that Ireland will end up jumping one of Moore/Macklin/Furlong ahead of the current generation, but obviously they won't be ready by then. Mike Ross remains the most important man in Ireland.

Second Row
Paul O'Connell
Donnacha Ryan
Dan Tuohy
Devin Toner

Happy here. Not as good as the Mal, POC & DOC days, but plenty of talent. Hopefully Ryan Caldwell's impressive form with Bath will get a look in too

Are you really happy with only 4/5 international locks? Particularly when one is as brain free as Caldwell. Toner's improved a lot too recently, but I wouldn't care to cast him as a dead cert international yet. I'd consider lock to be a problem area.

Scrum Half
Eoin Reddan
Conor Murray
Paul Marshall
Isaac Boss

A waiting game if I ever saw one. Soon the chosen one will sweep all of these mortals aside, but they'll do for now

Would personally consider this a weakness myself.

Inside Centre
Fergus McFadden
Luke Fitzgerald
Paddy Wallace
Gordon D'arcy

A position in which we're going to have to put up with a few old lads for a while I feel. JJ Hanrahan may get more game time than I'm anticipating, but I reckon it'll be 2 years before he's ready to be included.

Outside Centre
Darren Cave
Eoin O'Malley
Eoin Griffin
Keith Earls

Happy enough here, lot's of proper 13's. Good stuff.

I have an inkling that his BODness may move to 12 - and speaking of 12, what about McSharry at Connacht? I also think Brendan Macken might be ahead of O'Malley by the end of next season for Leinster, and that Nevin Spence deserves a mention somewhere in all this.

Fullback
Rob Kearney
Felix Jones
Dave Kearney
Keith Earls

Rob obviously can't be replaced, but Jones could make do in a pinch. I'm not unhappy here.

Personally think that after Kearney it looks a little shady. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Jones, but he was made to look like a clown in defence by Gilroy and Henderson, and there are better players than both about. The latter two very rarely play there. But don't worry, Gavin Duffy will rescue you.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Are you really happy with only 4/5 international locks? Particularly when one is as brain free as Caldwell. Toner's improved a lot too recently, but I wouldn't care to cast him as a dead cert international yet. I'd consider lock to be a problem area.

By all accounts he's been excellent for Bath this season. If he can learn to keep his temper in check (something that playing week in, week out should sort) he can become a serious option. In any case, in two years time Ian Hendrson, Ian Nagle and Mark Flanagan may be viable options. There's still Mike McCarthy knocking about too.

Would personally consider this a weakness myself.

Eoin Reddan is ace, as witnessed by his Leinster performances. We haven't had a top quality 9 for ages, but the chosen one will come soon and then we're set.

I have an inkling that his BODness may move to 12 - and speaking of 12, what about McSharry at Connacht? I also think Brendan Macken might be ahead of O'Malley by the end of next season for Leinster, and that Nevin Spence deserves a mention somewhere in all this.

hI never see Spence reaching international quality. Macken is a good player and he's got time on his side, so he could well figure at some point. Chris Farrell up at Ulster is also showing some promise, and the fact that he's bloody massive is a plus.

Personally think that after Kearney it looks a little shady. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Jones, but he was made to look like a clown in defence by Gilroy and Henderson, and there are better players than both about. The latter two very rarely play there. But don't worry, Gavin Duffy will rescue you.

Jones is going through a bad patch it's true. He's a had a poor season. Still, he was looking pretty good in the build up to the world cup. I'm not giving up hope just yet. Also, Shane Layden at Connacht looks like a player worth keeping an eye on at full back.

 

[Peat]

By all accounts he's been excellent for Bath this season. If he can learn to keep his temper in check (something that playing week in, week out should sort) he can become a serious option. In any case, in two years time Ian Hendrson, Ian Nagle and Mark Flanagan may be viable options. There's still Mike McCarthy knocking about too.

McCarthy will be dead by then. Yes, some of those lads may make it... may. No guarantees that'll be by Kidney's leaving date. And Caldwell never had a temper that I saw (might be wrong on that), he was just really stupid... have heard he's mostly cured it, but wouldn't want to rely on it!

Eoin Reddan is ace, as witnessed by his Leinster performances. We haven't had a top quality 9 for ages, but the chosen one will come soon and then we're set.

Domestic =/= International. I would hesitate to label him a top class scrum-half and he's Ireland's best. He's also 31.

hI never see Spence reaching international quality. Macken is a good player and he's got time on his side, so he could well figure at some point. Chris Farrell up at Ulster is also showing some promise, and the fact that he's bloody massive is a plus.

Spence is an enigma, but I believe he's already capable of effective international performances, providing you are wise to his limitations. Farrell (and Marshall) are both obvious prospects, but don't want to talk them up until their route is clearer. Unless it's going to wind someone up.

Jones is going through a bad patch it's true. He's a had a poor season. Still, he was looking pretty good in the build up to the world cup. I'm not giving up hope just yet. Also, Shane Layden at Connacht looks like a player worth keeping an eye on at full back.

Layden's useful, aye. I doubt Ireland will be short at full-back for long. But right now it seems a bit of an issue to me.

 

[Conal]

McCarthy will be dead by then. Yes, some of those lads may make it... may. No guarantees that'll be by Kidney's leaving date. And Caldwell never had a temper that I saw (might be wrong on that), he was just really stupid... have heard he's mostly cured it, but wouldn't want to rely on it!

i remember caldwell as a huge talented angry penalty prone lump
always had potential to be quite good if not international standard. however a history of yellow cards and being a liability lead to the horrible circle
of little game time = little improvement
to being sold to bath. which seems to have turned outwell!

 

[munstermuffin]

Spence has to prove himself in big games for Ulster first. Like Cave did in the final of HEC.