Ireland’s tour of South Africa

[Leonormous Boozer]

De Allende and Kolbe making up things in their head lately to have a go at Ireland. Munster fans (and Zebo) and South Africans bonding over “Dublin media”. This is going to be an exhausting couple of games from two teams that I doubt will be at their best, can’t say I’m too excited and the discourse will be painful.

Prediction, South Africa to win two tests, one comfortably.

Discuss!

 

[big ginger 8]

Gonna be spicy. Think we'll lose the one at altitude and depends how many we have fit for the sea level test.

Would like Baird to start one of the games. Will be a real tester for presumably JOB.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I was gonna say Ireland to win both, but I don't rate your flyhalf choices at all so think maybe South Africa winning the series and Ireland ruing missed opportunities

Really do think you've been too conservative with Prendergast, 4 starts this season is mad for how good he is

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I was gonna say Ireland to win both, but I don't rate your flyhalf choices at all so think maybe South Africa winning the series and Ireland ruing missed opportunities

Really do think you've been too conservative with Prendergast, 4 starts this season is mad for how good he is

Time will tell but I think he’s probably been steered into the gym after being ragdolled v Tigers. His minutes took a dive after that. Think this tour would have come too soon in any case. It’ll be this time next year that he starts to stake a claim for the Ireland 10 jersey all going to plan.

https://all.rugby/player/sam-prendergast#:~:text=Sam PRENDERGAST is a 20,in Ireland as fly-half.

I like Crowley but he’s struggled against organised and aggressive defences to this point in his career. Will need to make another step forward in his development which is very possible.

 

[Groundhog]

Crowley for me really hasn't put a foot wrong this year. He's as physical a 10 as you can get, attacks the line and is not afraid of trying stuff. It doesn't always come off and he's clearly still adjusting to the international step up, but I am confident he is our ten for years to come.

10 is a baptism of fire at international, especially the way we ask our 10s to play and it's churned up and spat out a lot of players for Ireland over the past few years.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

but I am confident he is our ten for years to come.

Years meaning two years I agree. Don’t see how you can discount Prendergast when he’s been the best u20 back we’ve had since Ringrose. Come the next World Cup we should be very cosy at 10, even Ross is all you can really ask for as a 3rd choice guy.

 

[Groundhog]

Years meaning two years I agree. Don't see how you can discount Prendergast when he's been the best u20 back we've had since Ringrose. Come the next World Cup we should be very cosy at 10, even Ross is all you can really ask for as a 3rd choice guy.

Crowley was dominant at Under 20 despite Covid cancellations. If we're using Under 20s as a barometer Prendergast is the reason we only drew against England at the Under 20
World Cup. He had a stinker that day, but **** happens at that age.

I'm not discounting him, nor am I saying he won't make it or anything like that. He's very talented, he by all rights should be a great player, but I think trying to hype a player as successor to a massively talented 24 year old who has had one season with the Irish jersey is wild. You're like the Leo De Caprio of out halves.

I will agree I think we will be healthy enough at 10. I think people assume that just because we don't have Sexton we're weak in the position, esp when we're playing a team that's given Mannie Libbock caps

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Crowley was dominant at Under 20 despite Covid cancellations. If we're using Under 20s as a barometer Prendergast is the reason we only drew against England at the Under 20
World Cup. He had a stinker that day, but **** happens at that age.

I'm not discounting him, nor am I saying he won't make it or anything like that. He's very talented, he by all rights should be a great player, but I think trying to hype a player as successor to a massively talented 24 year old who has had one season with the Irish jersey is wild. You're like the Leo De Caprio of out halves.

I will agree I think we will be healthy enough at 10. I think people assume that just because we don't have Sexton we're weak in the position, esp when we're playing a team that's given Mannie Libbock caps

I think heralding a guy one season into his Irish career as the 10 for years to come is wild with such obvious quality coming through.

Prendergast has played European rugby and URC knockout rugby at 10 less than 12 months out of 20s. It’s a very similar arch to Crowley except he’s been fighting three guys who’ve played internationally at 10 for minutes rather than one and a ginger. It’d be weird if he wasn’t being spoken about.

 

[Groundhog]

I think heralding a guy one season into his Irish career as the 10 for years to come is wild with such obvious quality coming through.

Prendergast has played European rugby and URC knockout rugby at 10 less than 12 months out of 20s. It's a very similar arch to Crowley except he's been fighting three guys who've played internationally at 10 for minutes rather than one and a ginger. It'd be weird if he wasn't being spoken about.

Crowley beat the same people to the Irish jersey though, and has emerged as the clear number one, which Prendergast is yet to do. Not that he should have, but that's absolutely his next logical milestone before we talk about Ireland.

Uktimately don't really see a good reason to annoint him the Christ child. If Farrell stays on I think he's pretty slow to swap players out of a winning formula. I guess my point is Crowley very much has his destiny in his own hands. If he keeps this trajectory and gets this Irish team ticking I don't think he will be usurped.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Crowley beat the same people to the Irish jersey though, and has emerged as the clear number one, which Prendergast is yet to do. Not that he should have, but that's absolutely his next logical milestone before we talk about Ireland.

Uktimately don't really see a good reason to annoint him the Christ child. If Farrell stays on I think he's pretty slow to swap players out of a winning formula. I guess my point is Crowley very much has his destiny in his own hands. If he keeps this trajectory and gets this Irish team ticking I don't think he will be usurped.

Prendergast will get his chances though. In an area where depth is currently a weakness of course I’m going to talk about the guy with the highest potential (imo).

And I done the same with Crowley too didn’t I?!

Ireland Summer Tour? Maybe

Created due to popular demand. Believe we're scheduled to tour the PI's. Probably very little chance of that happening as much as I would like it to. However, I do believe the IRFU will organise something whether it be games against other European teams or a bunch of trial matches. Obviously...

www.therugbyforum.com

 

[saulan]

De Allende and Kolbe making up things in their head lately to have a go at Ireland. Munster fans (and Zebo) and South Africans bonding over "Dublin media". This is going to be an exhausting couple of games from two teams that I doubt will be at their best, can't say I'm too excited and the discourse will be painful.

What did they say, I may be out the loop? I know from Chasing the Sun 2 they used the media a lot to try to "make it personal" because, as in every country, there were some loud mouthed journalists saying some very stupid things so Rassie basically locked the team in a room and made them watch it all.

 

[munstermuffin]

Years meaning two years I agree. Don't see how you can discount Prendergast when he's been the best u20 back we've had since Ringrose. Come the next World Cup we should be very cosy at 10, even Ross is all you can really ask for as a 3rd choice guy.

Prendergast is in a serious pivotal year next year.
He has a super high potential ceiling. But Harry Byrne did too.
Only 2 ways to deliver on that are playing consistently in terms of level and minutes.
I think Prendergast needs to be a starter for Leinster by November and at least back up for Ireland by 6 Nations. If he misses those 2 targets by not playing then his development is delayed and that means his ceiling comes down.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Prendergast is in a serious pivotal year next year.
He has a super high potential ceiling. But Harry Byrne did too.
Only 2 ways to deliver on that are playing consistently in terms of level and minutes.
I think Prendergast needs to be a starter for Leinster by November and at least back up for Ireland by 6 Nations. If he misses those 2 targets by not playing then his development is delayed and that means his ceiling comes down.

If Prendergast spends the next three years injured I doubt he’ll reach his potential either.

What did they say, I may be out the loop? I know from Chasing the Sun 2 they used the media a lot to try to "make it personal" because, as in every country, there were some loud mouthed journalists saying some very stupid things so Rassie basically locked the team in a room and made them watch it all.

De Allende went on about the 2017 game and that he felt disrespected after it. Kolbe said something about Ireland thinking they deserved to win the World Cup (could have been prompted to be fair).

Both were odd comments.

 

[Groundhog]

Prendergast will get his chances though. In an area where depth is currently a weakness of course I'm going to talk about the guy with the highest potential (imo).

And I done the same with Crowley too didn't I?!

Ireland Summer Tour? Maybe

Created due to popular demand. Believe we're scheduled to tour the PI's. Probably very little chance of that happening as much as I would like it to. However, I do believe the IRFU will organise something whether it be games against other European teams or a bunch of trial matches. Obviously...

www.therugbyforum.com

I think we agree on pretty much everything bar who has the highest potential. I don't personally see what gives Prendergast higher potential but it's pretty subjective I guess. I knew when Crowley scored that try for the 20s he was different gravy and I'm never changing my mind.

Prendergast should absolutely have an international future though of course

I think we do agree though that DDA and Kolbe can catch hands.

 

[munstermuffin]

If Prendergast spends the next three years injured I doubt he'll reach his potential either.

De Allende went on about the 2017 game and that he felt disrespected after it. Kolbe said something about Ireland thinking they deserved to win the World Cup (could have been prompted to be fair).

Both were odd comments.

Exactly. We are both on the same side though. To deliver on potential you need to be on the field. And being away or not playing consistently takes that away.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Exactly. We are both on the same side though. To deliver on potential you need to be on the field. And being away or not playing consistently takes that away.

Yep, I just think it’s a weird thing to focus on when talking about a potentially world class player who’s 21.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yep, I just think it's a weird thing to focus on when talking about a potentially world class player who's 21.

Not really when key years that of 21 to 23. There is many cases of that.
Potential ain't worth anything if it isn't built up with games, experience and time in high pressure games.
Ian Nagle was mentioned as being the next Paul O'Connell
JJ Hanrahan was seen as the star back Ireland dreamed of years ago when he first came on scene
Max Deegan was touted as a mainstay Irish player
Harry Byrne was called in to Irish squads early as he was potentially the guy for years to come.
The list goes on across all provinces.

But the reality is the 4 above failed to build on potential due to lack of gametime in those pivotal years. Maybe it was due to injuries or other reasons. But lack of gametime is lack of gametime. And that hampers potential.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not really when key years that of 21 to 23. There is many cases of that.
Potential ain't worth anything if it isn't built up with games, experience and time in high pressure games.
Ian Nagle was mentioned as being the next Paul O'Connell
JJ Hanrahan was seen as the star back Ireland dreamed of years ago when he first came on scene
Max Deegan was touted as a mainstay Irish player
Harry Byrne was called in to Irish squads early as he was potentially the guy for years to come.
The list goes on across all provinces.

But the reality is the 4 above failed to build on potential due to lack of gametime in those pivotal years. Maybe it was due to injuries or other reasons. But lack of gametime is lack of gametime. And that hampers potential.

Ok but Sam Prendergast is getting plenty of minutes and has worked his way to second choice this season. I see comments and tweets like these all the time regard SP and it almost reads as wishing injury on him to me, weird focus.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ok but Sam Prendergast is getting plenty of minutes and has worked his way to second choice this season. I see comments and tweets like these all the time regard SP and it almost reads as wishing injury on him to me, weird focus.

No I think your jumping to conclusions.
If you read correctly I said his target for next season should be to be a starter by November for Leinster and a back up for Ireland possibly by 6 Nations. Not sure how you get that as wishing an injury but hey whatever floats your boat.

Regards potential and injury all I said was players need to play consistently, especially 10s, to build on potential.
If Prendergast doesn't get sufficient minutes in important games then his ceiling will lower.
Like take this season with Prendergast and you can spin it any way you want.

He has 18 appearances in total. But Narrow to this season.
16 Appearances. But out of that 16 there is 4 starts.
Of the 16 games obviously 12 sub appearances. Out of that 12 the game was done and dusted in 10 of those games.
16 times he has been in squad but of that 16 only 6 appearances have been more than 20 minutes.

Add in alot of freedom here was helped with Ross Byrne being injured for a large part of winter.

So for all the good 10s you llok at the history they have a good trendline of playing consistently.

 

[Groundhog]

Sexton aside, Jimmy Gopperth is the best ten to play for Leinster since Contepomi, and that's a fact backed by science, pseudo or otherwise.